Using rough sawn pine

I will start off by saying I have literally no building/carpentry experience whatsoever. Didn’t even have a construction trades class in high school! But what I do have is a shitload of rough sawn red pine lumber and several projects that I’d like to use it for this upcoming summer. These projects include building a lean to on our garage, extending the gable end of a shed and building a Woods style open air chicken coop. Getting all that done this year may be a stretch, but that’s neither here nor there.

As far as lumber goes, heres what we have to work with: 2x4, 2x6, 2x8, 4x4, 6x6, and a variety of 1” thick stuff. All of it is rough sawn red pine that was cut last year and has been stacked, stickered and covered since. Most of it is 8’ long but there is a little bit of 10’ and 12’ lumber as well. I would like to use as much of this lumber for the projects as possible, but am well aware that untreated pine is limited in its uses.

What shouldn’t I use the pine for? I mean, for the garage lean to, I have treated powerline poles I can use for uprights. For the shed and coop, I intend on getting concrete pavers or something and building everything above ground so no pine will be in contact with the ground. Can I use the untreated pine for making the floors since they will be elevated off the ground? Also am considering using the pine for board and batton style siding on the coop, but may try charring the outside face of the wood for that.

Im also concerned with starting a project, getting delayed and having rain move in. Is it fine if the bare pine gets soaked with rain during the building process since none of it will be totally enclosed inside of a wall?

Also, any little tips that a novice should know? Something as simple as what kind of nails to use…

I can attach some links to the chicken coop that I’m wanting to build if any of you think that would help with giving advice.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/open-air-poultry-house-aka-woods-coop-in-minneapolis.1144881/

I wouldn't have the pine touch the ground for sure.  If it's on cement have some sort of barrier between the two so moisture in the cement doesn't get onto the wood.  That can be a piece of sill sealer foam, chunk of shingle, piece of tin, etc.

Other than that, I think it'll be good for anything you want (like the floors).

If it gets wet for a while, I think it's ok.  But I wouldn't want it to stay wet for more than a month.

Board and batten would be great, especially if the wood may shrink more.  Be sure to nail the big board just near the middle so it can expand and contract width-wise under the battens.  People often nail them near the edges and when it shrinks it splits right were the nails are.  Similarly nail the batten down the center and into the gap between the boards.  It needs to hold the boards tight to the framing but not have its nails go through the boards or you'll have that same splitting issue.  I hope that makes sense...

I generally use deck screws from Menards for most construction.  Then if I have to take it apart or change my mind and dismantle it, it comes apart easier and I can reuse the screws.  But nails are fine, just use big enough ones to go well into the piece that is behind the one you're attaching.  

Last detail is that red pine will bleed sap forever on you.  Even after it's dry it will weep sap for years.  So don't use it in places where you don't want it to be sticky (interior paneling in your house, for instance).  Or at least this is what I was told by a carpenter.

Brody, dear Brody,
Your projects sound wonderful and I bet they are all doable... but you can think bigger, think outside the box, you can reach for the stars! I have been in some spectacular homes that had amazing pieces of artwork hanging on their walls that were made very simply from this and that and rough sawn pine! Check out some sheik interior designers.

When I bought my place 11 years ago it was a funky beat up old house that was about to be condemned. But that was O.K. My goal was to fix it up, make it habitable and rent out the rooms. (And tenants sort of have a tendency to be pretty hard on a rented room so I didn't want to cry every time something got messed up). I just wanted the property to build my awesome garden so this place seemed perfect.

But I chose it mostly because it had a few unique and wonderful treasures that I fell in love with. One is my private bathroom door made from 'rough sawn pine' and wrought iron hardware. It is not only unique but the wood is warm and comforting and makes me feel like nature is not just outside but Mother Nature is here inside with me. In my bathroom! LOL. I fell in love with things like that door! It's one of my favorite things in the house.

It must be about 40 years old. I don't know what they finished it with, perhaps nothing. But for a few years now it has begun to warp and it is not closing correctly. I spent a couple of months this summer attempting to unwarp it in my garage. I wish it had helped more but it helped a little. I will continue  to polish it with bees wax/orange oil and take good care of it for as long as possible because it is so beautiful.

Let your imagination run wild and have fun. That's what I'm saying. And I'm sure the chickens will love it too.

Mike Haasl wrote:I wouldn't have the pine touch the ground for sure.  If it's on cement have some sort of barrier between the two so moisture in the cement doesn't get onto the wood.  That can be a piece of sill sealer foam, chunk of shingle, piece of tin, etc.

Other than that, I think it'll be good for anything you want (like the floors).

If it gets wet for a while, I think it's ok.  But I wouldn't want it to stay wet for more than a month.

Board and batten would be great, especially if the wood may shrink more.  Be sure to nail the big board just near the middle so it can expand and contract width-wise under the battens.  People often nail them near the edges and when it shrinks it splits right were the nails are.  Similarly nail the batten down the center and into the gap between the boards.  It needs to hold the boards tight to the framing but not have its nails go through the boards or you'll have that same splitting issue.  I hope that makes sense...

I generally use deck screws from Menards for most construction.  Then if I have to take it apart or change my mind and dismantle it, it comes apart easier and I can reuse the screws.  But nails are fine, just use big enough ones to go well into the piece that is behind the one you're attaching.  

Last detail is that red pine will bleed sap forever on you.  Even after it's dry it will weep sap for years.  So don't use it in places where you don't want it to be sticky (interior paneling in your house, for instance).  Or at least this is what I was told by a carpenter.

I definitely wont let the pine touch the ground. I’m thinking of building the coop on skids (maybe pine) and the skids on top of concrete blocks. Ill use a barrier between the two, i just wasn’t sure about moisture rising from the ground or splashing from rain. But, the coop will have some overhang that should help keep splashing away. Or I could put a bit of gutter along the roof and direct water away.

I do think I understand what you’re saying about board and batten. Ive never done it before but do understand the concept and will definitely watch a video or two before getting into it.

I like deck screws as well and that was my first thought. But, I also like simplicity and old fashioned things, so since I’ve never built anything I thought this would be a good excuse to put some hammers to work!

As far as the sap bleeding goes, you are probably right. But, for lean to’s and a chicken coop, I’m not worried about that. Now if a chicken gets a blob of sap across its face while sleeping at night, then maybe I’ll feel differently!

Debbie Ann wrote:Brody, dear Brody,
Your projects sound wonderful and I bet they are all doable... but you can think bigger, think outside the box, you can reach for the stars! I have been in some spectacular homes that had amazing pieces of artwork hanging on their walls that were made very simply from this and that and rough sawn pine! Check out some sheik interior designers.

When I bought my place 11 years ago it was a funky beat up old house that was about to be condemned. But that was O.K. My goal was to fix it up, make it habitable and rent out the rooms. (And tenants sort of have a tendency to be pretty hard on a rented room so I didn't want to cry every time something got messed up). I just wanted the property to build my awesome garden so this place seemed perfect.

But I chose it mostly because it had a few unique and wonderful treasures that I fell in love with. One is my private bathroom door made from 'rough sawn pine' and wrought iron hardware. It is not only unique but the wood is warm and comforting and makes me feel like nature is not just outside but Mother Nature is here inside with me. In my bathroom! LOL. I fell in love with things like that door! It's one of my favorite things in the house.

It must be about 40 years old. I don't know what they finished it with, perhaps nothing. But for a few years now it has begun to warp and it is not closing correctly. I spent a couple of months this summer attempting to unwarp it in my garage. I wish it had helped more but it helped a little. I will continue  to polish it with bees wax/orange oil and take good care of it for as long as possible because it is so beautiful.

Let your imagination run wild and have fun. That's what I'm saying. And I'm sure the chickens will love it too.

Im with you on that simple rough sawn look for interior decorating! If it were up to me, I would have shelving, trim, doors and maybe even tongue and groove panelling inside. But those are all low on my priority list for now.

Thanks for the optimism and encouragement! Ill probably document the coop build on here because I think it will jive with a lot of people on this site, being a coop design from over 100 years ago. Plus, lots of people are getting into milling their own lumber, so building with rough sawn lumber may hit home for a lot of people.

As for splash-back, anything within about 18" of the ground will get splash back on.  Gutters will help but rain drops will still splash up.  I have a bare wood chicken coop with the boards running vertically to within 6" of the ground.  They show the evidence of the splash back but are unharmed so I wouldn't worry about it.  Horizontal logs like on a log cabin are another matter.  I have a log home buddy who is often called in to replace the bottom log in a million dollar log home.

Mike Haasl wrote:As for splash-back, anything within about 18" of the ground will get splash back on.  Gutters will help but rain drops will still splash up.  I have a bare wood chicken coop with the boards running vertically to within 6" of the ground.  They show the evidence of the splash back but are unharmed so I wouldn't worry about it.  Horizontal logs like on a log cabin are another matter.  I have a log home buddy who is often called in to replace the bottom log in a million dollar log home.

So, you think untreated pine will hold up for a while for the skids and subfloor? Or should I treat it with something or buy treated lumber for that? I suppose only the outside edge of the coop will get splashed on. Everything underneath should stay dry i would imagine.

Untreated pine will last for years in the weather as long as it isn't in contact with the ground directly. Carpenter bees will eat holes all through it if its exposed, and termites will try and colonize it if its damp continuously or in contact with the ground.

I have built chicken and dog houses of untreated lumber and they are still doing fine years later. My house has untreated rough sawn yellow pine siding. I keep meaning to seal or paint it but the tie has slipped away from me and now its been 7 or eight years! Pine grays over time.

My floor joists in my house are rough cut poplar, I build with rough cut when I have it. Have fun!

Brody Ekberg wrote:So, you think untreated pine will hold up for a while for the skids and subfloor? Or should I treat it with something or buy treated lumber for that? I suppose only the outside edge of the coop will get splashed on. Everything underneath should stay dry i would imagine.

If the skids aren't touching the cement or ground directly, and the siding covers them up, I think they'll be fine.  Just imagine where the water will splash and try to make sure it won't pool on your pine and you should be fine.  My barn has untreated pine boards on it exposed to the weather and I think they're 40 years old.  My chicken coop has them down near the ground and they're 6 years old and just grey.

If you have a bit of ventilation under the buildings the untreated subfloor should be fine.  If it's constantly damp/humid under there it would likely become a problem.  If you're as sandy as I am it's probably ok.

As for the termites and carpenter bees, there's a reason we live up here .  No termites and I'm not sure if bees are really a problem either.  I did see a paper wasp once chewing on some cedar to make paper...

Ben House wrote:Untreated pine will last for years in the weather as long as it isn't in contact with the ground directly. Carpenter bees will eat holes all through it if its exposed, and termites will try and colonize it if its damp continuously or in contact with the ground.

I have built chicken and dog houses of untreated lumber and they are still doing fine years later. My house has untreated rough sawn yellow pine siding. I keep meaning to seal or paint it but the tie has slipped away from me and now its been 7 or eight years! Pine grays over time.

My floor joists in my house are rough cut poplar, I build with rough cut when I have it. Have fun!

As far as I know, we dont have termites here. We do have carpenter bees and plenty of carpenter ants though, but I haven’t noticed them really get into anything that wasn’t at least damp or compromised to begin with (like our leaking roof!).

Since you build with rough cut when you have it, you sound like a good one to ask: what sort of issues might I run into using rough cut for building? Theres definitely going to be a little warping, cupping and some variation (1/8” at least) in some of the boards. My dad made it sound like building with it will be impossible, but he’s a bit of a perfectionist. I make do with what I have, am not a perfectionist but also have no experience building anything. I figured since this is just some lean to’s and a coop that some imperfections wont really matter much.

Mike Haasl wrote:

If the skids aren't touching the cement or ground directly, and the siding covers them up, I think they'll be fine.  Just imagine where the water will splash and try to make sure it won't pool on your pine and you should be fine.  My barn has untreated pine boards on it exposed to the weather and I think they're 40 years old.  My chicken coop has them down near the ground and they're 6 years old and just grey.

If you have a bit of ventilation under the buildings the untreated subfloor should be fine.  If it's constantly damp/humid under there it would likely become a problem.  If you're as sandy as I am it's probably ok.

As for the termites and carpenter bees, there's a reason we live up here .  No termites and I'm not sure if bees are really a problem either.  I did see a paper wasp once chewing on some cedar to make paper...

Ill plan on elevating the coop far enough off the ground so the chickens can hide underneath if they want. That should provide air flow to help keep it dry underneath. We do have plenty of carpenter ants and some bees here, so keeping things dry will definitely be important!

Heres a new question on the same topic of rough cut, untreated pine: Siding the chicken coop.

My first (and idealistic) thought was to try the Japanese method of charring the outside of the boards. I still think that is the best idea but could also see that taking quite a while and being a total mess. It could be fun though!

My second idea was leaving them rough and bare and just having decent roof overhangs and possibly gutters to protect them from rain and splashing.

After planing some of these boards and seeing how beautiful the “blue stain” is, I thought about planing all the siding and sealing it with some sort of clear coat. Sounds like a long, beautiful messy process.

And of course, paint is always an option but I rate that last for multiple reasons. Even if I went with something from the Real Milk Paint Company, it would still totally cover up the wood.

2 of the sides of the coop should get pretty good sun exposure and 2 wont get much. Im sure that will have an effect on how the wood holds up. What are some of your thoughts?

Bare pine that isn't splashed on regularly and has good air flow will last a very long time as siding, even in our area.  My barn has unprotected pine on it and it was built in the 60s.  In one area the wood comes within 6" of the ground and gets splashed on and it's still ok.  It's severely weathered, almost black but it works.  It's also oriented vertically.

Mike Haasl wrote:Bare pine that isn't splashed on regularly and has good air flow will last a very long time as siding, even in our area.  My barn has unprotected pine on it and it was built in the 60s.  In one area the wood comes within 6" of the ground and gets splashed on and it's still ok.  It's severely weathered, almost black but it works.  It's also oriented vertically.

That specific area you’re talking about, does it get much sun?

The backside of our shed has bare pine on it and its rotting. But, thats in the shade almost always and gets splashed on significantly more than I think it should.

My roof slopes to the E and W so the water splashes on those sides.  The North side is obviously shaded and close to the ground with a big maple to the west to give it more shade.  It's also two stories so rain is always washing down it.  But the barn is in the open so I think it gets decent wind/airflow.  

I am very surprised to read about the use of untreated pine.
In Australia we have lots of Radiata Pine, I think its Monterey Pine in North America.
If exposed to weather it rots within 3 years, painted or not.
Is the pine you are speaking about a different wood?

John C Daley wrote:I am very surprised to read about the use of untreated pine.
In Australia we have lots of Radiata Pine, I think its Monterey Pine in North America.
If exposed to weather it rots within 3 years, painted or not.
Is the pine you are speaking about a different wood?

Im talking about red pine/norway pine. It’s a softwood, evergreen tree. Definitely far from rot resistant. But, I’m hoping with air flow, being up off the ground and having big eves on the building (to protect from rain and snow) that it will last. Now, untreated pine left with ground contact or exposed to water will definitely be mush in 3 years.

I think it's white pine which isn't particularly rot resistant.  It's exposed on the outside and has tar paper on the inside of the siding to keep the wind from blowing through.  I suspect the vertical nature of the boards helps and the airflow around the building that helps it keep from staying wet.  But we aren't particularly dry here (40" a year of precip).

Mike Haasl wrote:I think it's white pine which isn't particularly rot resistant.  It's exposed on the outside and has tar paper on the inside of the siding to keep the wind from blowing through.  I suspect the vertical nature of the boards helps and the airflow around the building that helps it keep from staying wet.  But we aren't particularly dry here (40" a year of precip).

I might just risk it and go bare. I found my ideal product online: a non toxic, plant based internal wood stabilizer. Put 2 coats on rough sawn lumber and it cannot rot, absorb moisture or get eaten by bugs forever. No maintenance. But for enough to treat the skids and just the outside surface of the siding boards will cost me $280. Plus, the company recommended treating both sides of the boards due to a cupping effect if only treating one side. Im aware that if I nail the boards with the growth ring pointing away from the coop, cupping should be minimal, but I dont know if its worth the risk. And ordering enough IWS do double coat both sides would probably be over $400.

I could just go bare wood and if it seems like a mistake after a few years, then i dont know what. Once rot or bugs start its hard to reverse it.

You could also design it so that replacing the boards isn't the end of the world. Maybe in 5-10 years you'll have even easier access to wood like this and you can re do it if needed.

Mike Haasl wrote:You could also design it so that replacing the boards isn't the end of the world. Maybe in 5-10 years you'll have even easier access to wood like this and you can re do it if needed.

That sounds like a call to use screws instead of nails. Good point though. Aside from needing to remove some trim, the siding could be replaced relatively easily. Id just rather not have to!

Likely...  Nails are pretty easy to remove if you can pry off the whole board then knock the nails out.

I cut up three white pines last year for lumber thinking it was the only time I'd ever do something that cool.  Turns out I can borrow the sawmill any time I want.  And my neighbor is having some big trees taken down this summer.  So making lumber may be a slightly more possible task than I thought.

So depending on how you got your wood, there may be opportunities to get more of it in the years to come.  Just be aware of the possibilities and arrange yourself so that you can take advantage of opportunities as they arise.

I think red pine is pretty commonly used for log houses -but I think it does discolour quickly if not finished.

I wonder if whitewashing would help increase the lifespan? I know lime is drying and also discourages bugs so I wonder if white washing the inside of the coop might be worthwhile (and affordable).

My father planted several acres of red pine 60ish years ago (with me helping as a small child), and when it was mature enough to think about harvesting, he was told by a forester/logger that there was no market for it as it rots too fast. It is not used for log houses due to susceptibility to bugs and rot. The only commercial market would be as pulp, and it was more valuable to him as forest than as a crop to clearcut.

I do expect it would be fine to use as internal lumber, and may be fine as vertical siding if not frequently damp. As red pine tends to have a large cluster of big knots every couple of feet unless it had dead branches pruned regularly (which my father did for much of it up to about 16'), it may be questionable for serious structural members. And yes, sap is an issue more than with white pine.

White pine and hemlock were used for barns (structure and siding) for over a century around here and unless not maintained against leaks or damp are still sound. New growth wood is probably less durable as the growth rings are much wider with more summer wood.

Mike Haasl wrote:Likely...  Nails are pretty easy to remove if you can pry off the whole board then knock the nails out.

I cut up three white pines last year for lumber thinking it was the only time I'd ever do something that cool.  Turns out I can borrow the sawmill any time I want.  And my neighbor is having some big trees taken down this summer.  So making lumber may be a slightly more possible task than I thought.

So depending on how you got your wood, there may be opportunities to get more of it in the years to come.  Just be aware of the possibilities and arrange yourself so that you can take advantage of opportunities as they arise.

The lumber came from trees on our property and we had a friend mill them. We have more trees, so yes we can definitely get more lumber in the future. Id just rather build it to last than build it assuming I’ll have time and material to rebuild in the future.

Catie George wrote:I think red pine is pretty commonly used for log houses -but I think it does discolour quickly if not finished.

I wonder if whitewashing would help increase the lifespan? I know lime is drying and also discourages bugs so I wonder if white washing the inside of the coop might be worthwhile (and affordable).

I really dont care about the discoloration. Its already discolored with “blue stain” from the logs sitting too long before being milled. But it’s beautiful and still structurally sound so Im happy with it.

Good idea with whitewashing inside. I haven’t decided how to finish the inside yet since that’s so far from where we are at now, but I’ll keep that in mind.

Glenn Herbert wrote:My father planted several acres of red pine 60ish years ago (with me helping as a small child), and when it was mature enough to think about harvesting, he was told by a forester/logger that there was no market for it as it rots too fast. It is not used for log houses due to susceptibility to bugs and rot. The only commercial market would be as pulp, and it was more valuable to him as forest than as a crop to clearcut.

I do expect it would be fine to use as internal lumber, and may be fine as vertical siding if not frequently damp. As red pine tends to have a large cluster of big knots every couple of feet unless it had dead branches pruned regularly (which my father did for much of it up to about 16'), it may be questionable for serious structural members. And yes, sap is an issue more than with white pine.

White pine and hemlock were used for barns (structure and siding) for over a century around here and unless not maintained against leaks or damp are still sound. New growth wood is probably less durable as the growth rings are much wider with more summer wood.

I figured we could sell some logs to log home builders too but was shot down pretty quickly. I was told that they prefer logs 15” across 50’ up. Anything less is too much sapwood for a log house according to the guy i talked to. Our trees were 18-21” at the base and 70-80’ tall. Planted like most red pine plantations, way too close to reach maturity. Planted with pulp mills in mind.

You’re right about the knots having an effect on stability. I got our lumber cut to full dimensions so the extra “meat” will help. Plus, I can oversize things if need be (use 2x6 where 2x4 is called for). Im not too worried about sap since this is just for a chicken coop.

Brody Ekberg wrote:

Ben House wrote:Untreated pine will last for years in the weather as long as it isn't in contact with the ground directly. Carpenter bees will eat holes all through it if its exposed, and termites will try and colonize it if its damp continuously or in contact with the ground.

I have built chicken and dog houses of untreated lumber and they are still doing fine years later. My house has untreated rough sawn yellow pine siding. I keep meaning to seal or paint it but the tie has slipped away from me and now its been 7 or eight years! Pine grays over time.

My floor joists in my house are rough cut poplar, I build with rough cut when I have it. Have fun!

As far as I know, we dont have termites here. We do have carpenter bees and plenty of carpenter ants though, but I haven’t noticed them really get into anything that wasn’t at least damp or compromised to begin with (like our leaking roof!).

Since you build with rough cut when you have it, you sound like a good one to ask: what sort of issues might I run into using rough cut for building? Theres definitely going to be a little warping, cupping and some variation (1/8” at least) in some of the boards. My dad made it sound like building with it will be impossible, but he’s a bit of a perfectionist. I make do with what I have, am not a perfectionist but also have no experience building anything. I figured since this is just some lean to’s and a coop that some imperfections wont really matter much.

First I apologize for not getting right back to you, somehow life seems to get in the way of many things.

My experience with rough sawn wood is that you will see some shrinkage in the width and to a lesser degree the length. Some times the boards will split a little while drying and bow or warp. You can reduce these things by stacking and stickering the boards with some 1x1 inch stackers. Then air dry the boards for a few months under cover, I typically use old roof metal to cover the wood while drying. The air dried wood behaves pretty much the same as kiln dried wood after the drying period.

If you nail the wood up green and wet be prepared for some warping and bowing, and the shrinking.

Ben House wrote:

Brody Ekberg wrote:

Ben House wrote:Untreated pine will last for years in the weather as long as it isn't in contact with the ground directly. Carpenter bees will eat holes all through it if its exposed, and termites will try and colonize it if its damp continuously or in contact with the ground.

I have built chicken and dog houses of untreated lumber and they are still doing fine years later. My house has untreated rough sawn yellow pine siding. I keep meaning to seal or paint it but the tie has slipped away from me and now its been 7 or eight years! Pine grays over time.

My floor joists in my house are rough cut poplar, I build with rough cut when I have it. Have fun!

As far as I know, we dont have termites here. We do have carpenter bees and plenty of carpenter ants though, but I haven’t noticed them really get into anything that wasn’t at least damp or compromised to begin with (like our leaking roof!).

Since you build with rough cut when you have it, you sound like a good one to ask: what sort of issues might I run into using rough cut for building? Theres definitely going to be a little warping, cupping and some variation (1/8” at least) in some of the boards. My dad made it sound like building with it will be impossible, but he’s a bit of a perfectionist. I make do with what I have, am not a perfectionist but also have no experience building anything. I figured since this is just some lean to’s and a coop that some imperfections wont really matter much.

First I apologize for not getting right back to you, somehow life seems to get in the way of many things.

My experience with rough sawn wood is that you will see some shrinkage in the width and to a lesser degree the length. Some times the boards will split a little while drying and bow or warp. You can reduce these things by stacking and stickering the boards with some 1x1 inch stackers. Then air dry the boards for a few months under cover, I typically use old roof metal to cover the wood while drying. The air dried wood behaves pretty much the same as kiln dried wood after the drying period.

If you nail the wood up green and wet be prepared for some warping and bowing, and the shrinking.

No worries, I totally understand the business of life! Especially this time of year!

This wood was all cut, stickered and covered last summer so should be pretty dry by now. I think I’ll order the Internal Wood Stabilizer and use that for the skids, siding and exterior trim on the coop. All of the framing and anything inside can stay bare, untreated pine.

Now I’ll need to decide if I want to do horizontal live edge siding, live edge board on board siding, or some of both. Kind of leaning towards trying both as an experiment to see which is easier, which lasts longer and which looks better. Sounds like I shouldn’t have to worry too much about shrinkage or warping since it’s already done that. But cupping is a concern, especially if I only treat one side of the siding boards. Ive been told multiple ways to fasten the boards, and the different ways all cite the same reasons, so I might as well wing it and see what happens!