New veg garden on clay soil

Hi!

I've read a bunch of threads on clay soil, including Bryant RedHawk's fantastic https://permies.com/t/108953/improve-clay-soils-growing-year (THANK YOU) and relevant comments from Eric Hanson (THANK YOU).

Have a plan, would just like to run it by y'all to see if I'm missing anything.

I'm moving into a new house in June and want to get the garden under way ASAP.

I'm in the Azores on Santa Maria island, so a subtropical climate with dry summers. Soil is heavy clay. The garden gets full sun and will be around 30 sq meters.

The plan:

Get the wood mill to deliver a truckload of wood chips/chunks.
Spread it on the soil as deep as possible.
Mix in some hay or straw and seasoned used coffee grounds if I can get it.
Plant winecap spawn. (I know the wood chips need to be non-conifer for the winecaps to be able to use them. And I know the winecaps need soil contact and shade.)
Use 12"x12" fertile holes to grow some summer vegs.
At the end of August, plant diakon, hollyhocks, rye. (I know to not pull up the daikon when it's done.)
Meanwhile, start a compost pile.

I'm curious to add Tennessee Red peanuts into the mix but not sure how to do that. Might just have a peanut patch in another area and see how that goes.

Any comments?

THANK YOU
Patricia

Sounds like a good plan to me! Would love to see photos of how it turns out!

Steve

Patricia said, "At the end of August, plant diakon, hollyhocks, rye.

Patricia, congratulations on the new property/

Your plan sounds like a good one to me.  Well thought out and I can tell that you have done a lot of reading.

Those plants are a good choice.

Thank you both! The validation helps!

I'll definitely post photos.

Off to order seeds...

Patricia, you sound like you are right on track.  The only thing I would add would be to grow some type of cover crop in those chips, particularly legumes, even if they need little fertile trenches.  I just planted a bed filled with wood chips, haphazardly inoculated with wine caps and left mostly fallow for about 2 years.  Weeds grew and when I went to pull them, what had been chips had turned into dark, rich loamy topsoil with lots of mycelium running through.

I will need to smother some remaining weeds, but I think you get the idea—wood chips + Wine Caps + plant roots = great garden soil.

I think your idea of growing peanuts is fantastic BTW!

Good Luck!

Eric

You are on the path to success. I have the same soil and I know what you are planning will work.

If it was me, I would try to dig up the garden area about a foot deep (with a tractor if necessary) and add a bunch of manure, or anything organic really . In my mind, a one time till and mix is almost necessary to be gardening in the near future in clay. But what you are planning will absolutely work to grow on top of it while slowly improving what's underneath.

Make sure you read Eric Hanson's posts here on wood chips. They are amazing.

Thanks, Eric, Dan! Have done a little research and will add Iron Clay cowpeas to the mix - interplant with the summer vegs. My climate is not quite warm enough to be ideal for cowpeas but they still seem to be the best choice, from what I've read. Unless someone has a better idea.

Dan - thanks for the advice. The ground is getting moved around a lot during renovating the house, and I'm having the guys terrace it. So I'm hoping the garden area will be somewhat loosened up from having been moved around - unless they've gone and compacted it with the bobcat. (I'm not there to supervise.)

But yes, I can grab some cow or horse manure from a neighbor - and had been wondering if manure should come into this, so that answers my question. I'll throw it in there before the chips. And I'll make sure I've read all Eric's posts on the subject, though I think I might have already. Thanks!

I've been reading a little about how all this actually works and it's SO EXCITING. Thanks for the assurances. I'll post updates.

Maybe before adding the chips, spread some granulated gypsum on the grounds, bonus if you can work it in with a broadfork. It will help break up the clay and let the composting chips get in there too.

Hi Forrest, thanks, OK, I will try! I will read up on it.

Also, I just remembered that I'll put in some biochar with the chips as well. I understand I should be able to make it right there in the clay. Another thing to get educated on.

Patricia Sanders wrote:Hi Forrest, thanks, OK, I will try! I will read up on it.

Also, I just remembered that I'll put in some biochar with the chips as well. I understand I should be able to make it right there in the clay. Another thing to get educated on.

I make my biochar in a long "V" shaped pit. Burn it in layers as the coals begin to turn white add another layer. This method was great because I could burn longer sticks and branches without having to cut them into shorter pieces.... saves a LOT of time! Have a water source nearby to fully submerge the coals to "activate" it once the last layer is done. I had to extinguish this one early but still got a lot of char ;)

I charge in a 55 gallon drum for 2 weeks in a mix off goodness :) depending on what I have around... manure, alfalfa pellets, urine, yeast and molasses, fish emulsion, compost and worm castings... yeah and water

Patricia Sanders wrote:Thanks, Eric, Dan! Have done a little research and will add Iron Clay cowpeas to the mix - interplant with the summer vegs. My climate is not quite warm enough to be ideal for cowpeas but they still seem to be the best choice, from what I've read. Unless someone has a better idea.

Dan - thanks for the advice. The ground is getting moved around a lot during renovating the house, and I'm having the guys terrace it. So I'm hoping the garden area will be somewhat loosened up from having been moved around - unless they've gone and compacted it with the bobcat. (I'm not there to supervise.)

But yes, I can grab some cow or horse manure from a neighbor - and had been wondering if manure should come into this, so that answers my question. I'll throw it in there before the chips. And I'll make sure I've read all Eric's posts on the subject, though I think I might have already. Thanks!

I've been reading a little about how all this actually works and it's SO EXCITING. Thanks for the assurances. I'll post updates.

I would be careful what the neighbor feeds the horses if you go that route.  Most people spray hay with preservative here now so that it doesn't mold.  It will pass through the horse and ruin a garden for years.  Just something to be aware of.

Trace Oswald wrote:

Patricia Sanders wrote:Thanks, Eric, Dan! Have done a little research and will add Iron Clay cowpeas to the mix - interplant with the summer vegs. My climate is not quite warm enough to be ideal for cowpeas but they still seem to be the best choice, from what I've read. Unless someone has a better idea.

Dan - thanks for the advice. The ground is getting moved around a lot during renovating the house, and I'm having the guys terrace it. So I'm hoping the garden area will be somewhat loosened up from having been moved around - unless they've gone and compacted it with the bobcat. (I'm not there to supervise.)

But yes, I can grab some cow or horse manure from a neighbor - and had been wondering if manure should come into this, so that answers my question. I'll throw it in there before the chips. And I'll make sure I've read all Eric's posts on the subject, though I think I might have already. Thanks!

I've been reading a little about how all this actually works and it's SO EXCITING. Thanks for the assurances. I'll post updates.

I would be careful what the neighbor feeds the horses if you go that route.  Most people spray hay with preservative here now so that it doesn't mold.  It will pass through the horse and ruin a garden for years.  Just something to be aware of.

Aminopyralids, which are contained in herbicides such as Grazon, are present in a significant percentage of hay, straw and manure supplies. DO NOT put manure on your garden unless you're very, very sure it came from animals that didn't graze on an herbicide-contaminated field - or animals that have eaten hay from outside your farm. Otherwise, you'll face poisoned garden plots like the poor tomato plants in today's video are growing in.

Wow, thanks Forrest, for the the info on biochar, the photo and everything. Yes, having read a little about biochar, now I'm thinking I'll burn in place, either a trench down the middle of the garden or a pit in the center, and then rake it across. Can you tell me what you mean by charging? Sounds like you're making a magic blend that, if I were to do it, I could add before I put in the wood chips?

Trace, THANK YOU for mentioning the herbicides, I did not know they could pass through the animals' digestive system and contaminate the manure. Also I had not realized how prevalent they are. So I probably can't use manure (and will have to be careful about hay and straw) because I don't see anybody around here who keeps horses or cattle who also has an organic mindset. I'm looking into veganic approaches.

Yeah those stupid Aminopyralids will jack your garden up for sure. I get my manure from a sweet couple around the corner who are aware of the problem and use their own manure so I trust it. Also they give me spoiled hay once in a while which is kind of evidence that it isn't in there, right?

I have done new beds where I spread a thin amount of biochar (charged) on the clay and then make a "raised bed" of split firewood pieces, fill it with chips and cover with manure. Full of worms the next year! I charge mine with compost tea and liquid kelp. Sometimes with a bit of organic fertilizer too. I (ususally) crush it and put four gallons in a bucket and then add the tea mix for at least 2 weeks. Biochar, manure, microbes and mulch. That's how I grow in clay that would make a master gardener throw up! Hahaha

OH I just figured out what charging biochar means! Now to figure out how to charge it without an extant compost pile.

I can get a fair amount of half-rotted firewood, all fungusy, so I'll throw some in with the wood chips. That'll bring more to the party.

This is so fun.

Patricia Sanders wrote:Wow, thanks Forrest, for the the info on biochar, the photo and everything. Yes, having read a little about biochar, now I'm thinking I'll burn in place, either a trench down the middle of the garden or a pit in the center, and then rake it across. Can you tell me what you mean by charging? Sounds like you're making a magic blend that, if I were to do it, I could add before I put in the wood chips?

Trace, THANK YOU for mentioning the herbicides, I did not know they could pass through the animals' digestive system and contaminate the manure. Also I had not realized how prevalent they are. So I probably can't use manure (and will have to be careful about hay and straw) because I don't see anybody around here who keeps horses or cattle who also has an organic mindset. I'm looking into veganic approaches.

Charging the biochar is like Dan described, soaking it in a mixture for 2 weeks or more. This is SO important it is not really biochar until you charge it, otherwise it will absorb nutrients from your soil instead of feeding it. You want to populate it with all those beneficial microbes before applying :) Like Dan said, crushing into smaller parts helps it work better. You would need to remove it from the pit and charge it in a container/containers.

I turned my burn trench into a hugelkultur mound hehe

OK, got it! Thanks so much!

You can also just pee in a bucket, add water, and soak your charcoal in that to charge it.

I normally just turn it into my compost pile, but there are lots of ways to charge it, and as many opinions how to do it as there are people making it I think :)

Hi Trace, thanks. I've been reading about it this afternoon and came to the same conclusion. I can get pond water and add urine, rotten fruit, rotten wood, forest duff, whole wheat flour, molasses, tomato sauce, and/or nettles.

If I can't manage to charge all of it (I pee a lot but not THAT much - I think I need around 30 gallons of biochar for a 30 m2 garden), it seems like it will work okay if I use the charged stuff under part of the garden, which I'll use for planting vegetables, and the uncharged stuff under the rest of the garden, where I'll plant lots of cowpeas and other nitrogen fixers, and let it charge that way for a year.

Update!

The goal was to improve clay soil over the winter so I could plant in it this spring.

The plan was:

- Get the wood mill to deliver a truckload of wood chips/chunks. Spread it on the soil as deep as possible. Mix in some hay or straw and seasoned used coffee grounds if possible.
- Plant winecap spawn.
- Use 12"x12" fertile holes to grow some summer vegs.
- At the end of August, plant daikon, hollyhocks, rye.
- Meanwhile, start a compost pile.
- Look into adding Tennessee Red peanuts into the mix.

The reality was:

- Wood chips/chunks aren't really available here. Nor is straw. Any hay would be likely to be treated. What I managed to get was wood SHAVINGS. Since it was all I could get, I tried it. I spread a few inches over the ground in the late summer and left it there all winter. It ... didn't do much. I ended up raking it all up and now I'm using it on paths (it soaks up the mud really well) and am using it in the compost heap, which probably isn't ideal but seems to be working okay.
- I planted winecap spawn in the fall, in those same wood chips plus what leaves I could get. It hasn't done much - I understand it can take a full season - but there is a lot of mycelium activity in the chip pile. Lots of white fibers. So I'm taking bits of that and spreading it around the garden.
- The fertile holes worked great. I got tons of summer squash and some lettuce and carrots by doing that.
- The daikons didn't do much. Only one got to any size. I ate it. It was good.
- I planted the hollyhocks in the fall and they stayed teeny tiny, until recently they started putting on size. So it looks like I'll have some blossoms this year, but it wasn't a helpful tactic for improving the soil over the winter.
- I didn't plant rye, and I forget why. I think because it didn't look likely that it would be able to grow in the wood shavings.
- Composting is going great. I'll be able to get lots of material, so I'll make as much as I can. I have one bin now that I hope will be ready for use in the garden by May.
- I've learned it doesn't get warm enough here for peanuts to do much. I have a packet of seeds but I might just eat them.

So nothing I did made any difference with the clay. It was all so ineffectual that I've abandoned the idea of trying to transform it.

BUT I learned I could get what people around here call terra preta. Don't get excited, it's not like the fabled terra preta of the Amazon. It's just soil that's much darker in color than the clay that's everywhere here, and according to the guy at the ag store, it's great to grow vegetables in. He claims it's naturally pH 7.0 and has plenty of potassium. They don't even sell potassium around here because, he says, people don't need it. So I had nine meters of it delivered, and I terraced the garden area, and created beds of that terra preta on top of the clay. I've planted buckwheat in the new soil and have added biochar. In April I'll hoe in the buckwheat and let it sit a while and then I'll plant.

So that's that! I have other issues about the (non) availability of organic fertilizers here, but that's another story.

before


after


Many thanks to everyone who offered ideas and information.

Patricia

I think you should get some of that manure that you mentioned above and test it, pick out the oldest well composted manure. Mix some of it with your soil in a small container and plant bean seeds in that mix. If the resulting plants look fine after a couple of weeks pursue the simple method of digging in about 3 inches of the same manure a spade deep and planting your garden in that soil. Had you done that last year you'd have had a fine crop of everything you planted.

In my opinion there's no better or cheaper way to start a new garden. Myself I won't use manure in it that has a lot of wood chips mixed in. That's a sign that they use wood chips to soak up the urine in the stalls. In my opinion the wood chips soak up the nitrogen so you have to wait years for any benefit from the organic matter. You've already become discouraged from wood products in the garden. I find that if you plant seeds in your garden soil that you do not want wood products in the soil.

Patricia Sanders wrote:
So that's that! I have other issues about the (non) availability of organic fertilizers here, but that's another story.

It's very easy to make your own.  I make mine based on Complete Organic Fertilizer mix "created by" Steve Solomon

Hi John, Trace,

Thanks for the suggestions. The thing is, there's limited availability of many things here. (I'm on a small island, Santa Maria, in the Azores.)

We have lots of cattle but the operations are small scale and I don't see cattle being kept in sheds - they're just out in the meadows. So obtaining manure would mean going around with a wheelbarrow and scooping it up one pat at a time and then wheeling it home, as I don't have a vehicle. But since you've given such a simple way to test it, I will do that! I'll go out with a bucket and bring home some to try. Thank you!

Trace, I appreciate your mentioning that about fertilizer. It's the same issue with limited availability. I have read one of Steve Solomon's books, so I know about his recipe. But I haven't found a source for seed meal. I'd like to try to do without materials that have to be shipped to the island. I'm falling back on a combination of green manures (using Will Bonsall's book for guidance on underplanting and rotations), urine, compost and bio char. (And will use manure if that seems to work and be practical.)

UPDATE: Walked down to the pasture with my bucket and shovel, the guy who owns the cattle happened to be there, he understood what I wanted and was nice enough to take me to his SECRET HIDDEN PERSONAL MANURE PILE that he'd collected last fall, and is willing to give me two or three buckets from it. So NEXT fall it should be doable to round up a few wheelbarrows full of fresh manure and make my own pile. Thanks John! I wouldn't have walked down there if you hadn't suggested it!