Wood stove Vs rocket stove

Currently we have an unsafe fire place (it can't be fixed with out a complete demolition) and a heat pump that does NOTHING for those below freezing days.
We are planning to put in a wood burner, of some kind, in November.  We both love the Liberator,  but I really need some questions answered before I pull the trigger. Here is my current thought process.

Pros of Liberator:
We can use our existing chimney and run a sleeve up it because the exhaust is below combustion Temps.
More efficient so less wood needed.
Able to switch between wood and pellets
Smaller foot print.
Less pollution.

Pros of Wood Stove
HALF THE PRICE!
Able to use bigger logs
Longer burn time on wood (so I don't have to get up every couple of hours)
Beautiful glass doors so you can enjoy the view
Larger surface area for cooking

What it boils down to, and what is really sticking in my craw, is "why should I pay double for the Liberator? " yes, yes,  I know about the environmental impact. I aree with that, it's a big positive. I just need MORE! How long is it going to take to save $1,500 on wood to make up the differece in cost and will the stove need to e replaced before i make Up the differece?
HELP PLEASE! I am only getting one side on this. I need more data points!

Hi John;
Well, I see your points and they are valid.
Here is my take on it... Never forget that I am the RMH guy!
Forget buying a new box stove, buy a used one and get by this winter.
Next summer build a Real masonry batch box RMH!

There having gotten that out of my system now I will say...  BUY the Liberator!
Box stoves are hazardous (Creosote) and they blow noxious clouds of smoke outdoors... somedays the pressure pushes it right back by your door!

The liberator is not cheap but it is way more efficient than any box stove.
It can burn pellets if you want to burn such a thing.
Yes, you will need to relight it,   big deal,   my guess is you will be getting up at night anyway.

And now back to my rant... next summer build a batch box!!!
Then sell the liberator!
Sorry... can't help myself
EVERYONE should toss the box stove and build an RMH!

Welcome to the forum, John, sorry I am a little belated.

I agree with Thomas about buying something for this winter and starting to plan and build for next year's real masonry batch box.

I bet we have some folks who will walk you through the build.

Box Wood stoves look cheap, BUT…

The chimney costs more than the stove
The fuel is still not free, even if it only costs you time

So John;
I have researched the liberator out of curiosity in the past.
They are not for me but they are a way better choice than an ultra-large forest-gobbling inferno king.
The Liberator can be hooked into a mass, I believe apx 12' of horizontal run.
That is a long way from an 8" J tube that can push 50' of a horizontal run, but it's more than any other commercially made UL-approved stove can do!
The liberator is costly, the pellet hopper is extra $, and if you create a mass that is a bit more money yet (Really not that much).
The Liberator is eminently resellable later, in let's say two years.
That would be after you are grinning about your new RMH batch box with the beautiful brick bell that you and the wife built!
It of course uses way less wood than the liberator and will not need you to relight it at dark thirty!
Ha had to sneak another plug-in for you to build your own RMH.
Maybe you need a long road trip to see these beauties in person...
It may be rocket science but with a little help from your friends, a caveman could build one.

We had the guy come out for an estimate, and it's ridiculous!
$4700 USD to install and about $3000 USD for the stove with a pellets attachment.
WHY? If I use a regular stove with a converter  I can burn one batch for 12 to 20 hours so I won't have to wake up to reload it. With a $1500 price difference how much am I saving with my free wood? The traditional stove has an exhaust rating of .4 ppm (point 4). The traditional stove won't affect my home resale value because I dont have to explain to the new Buyer why getting up 3 times a night is a better value and watching dancing flames is for losers who don't care about the environment


I'm just having real trouble seeing the value. Wood is basically free. We have enough trees downed from storms to keep us in wood for years. I want to believe! Help!

Hi John;
I don't understand how he wants to get a $4700 install fee.

I thought you got to use your old chimney, with the low exhaust temps from the liberator.
Even if this guy is installing a real class-A roof jack,  you only need insulated pipe outdoors not down to the stove.
I think he might be charging you a bit steeply...

As far as $3000 for a pellet hopper equipped Liberator,..   well sorry but that is what they cost.
You knew that at the start.

If the liberator can utilize your existing chimney, then you don't need an installer.
You need a couple of teenagers to help cart the new stove into the house.

That's just it. We can't use the chimney. The inside liner has separated leaving the outside logs of our log cabin exposed and covered in creosote. To demolish the stone fire place and chimney and make it safe we are looking at over 6000 USD. No one is willing to just run an exhaust system up there. Every one is telling us it's unsafe.
I'm honestly at wits end and ready to just chuck the whole stove idea

Your installers are correct about your current chimney.
If you try to run a "blaze-king " type catalytic stove with a large viewing window full of dancing flames...
The 700F or higher exhaust temperatures could burn your house down.
I am not personally familiar with the exhaust temps on a Liberator but it is a rocket stove and you would utilize the 12 ' of horizontal to heat a mass.
I would guess your stack temps to be in the 200F range or less.
Not hot enough to light a match much less your creosoted logs.

What size is the outlet of the Liberator?  4", 6"?
Your stone chimney is larger than that.  
I think you could push a 6" liner right on up yourself and puck the installers!

Next spring before your road trip get a real Class A chimney jack installed and then everything is golden.

JohnP Burke wrote:Currently we have an unsafe fire place (it can't be fixed with out a complete demolition) and a heat pump that does NOTHING for those below freezing days.
We are planning to put in a wood burner, of some kind, in November.  We both love the Liberator,  but I really need some questions answered before I pull the trigger. Here is my current thought process.

Pros of Liberator:
We can use our existing chimney and run a sleeve up it because the exhaust is below combustion Temps.
More efficient so less wood needed.
Able to switch between wood and pellets
Smaller foot print.
Less pollution.

Pros of Wood Stove
HALF THE PRICE!
Able to use bigger logs
Longer burn time on wood (so I don't have to get up every couple of hours)
Beautiful glass doors so you can enjoy the view
Larger surface area for cooking

What it boils down to, and what is really sticking in my craw, is "why should I pay double for the Liberator? " yes, yes,  I know about the environmental impact. I aree with that, it's a big positive. I just need MORE! How long is it going to take to save $1,500 on wood to make up the differece in cost and will the stove need to e replaced before i make Up the differece?
HELP PLEASE! I am only getting one side on this. I need more data points!

Hi John,
You seem to be in a bit of a pickle... My personal opinion is that that stone chimney has to go one way or another eventually. Even if you choose to heat with something other then wood it will be sucking heat out of your structure all winter long forever. I have not used a RMH for heating only boiling sap with a rocket stove so I won't opine one way or the other but any strategy should start with minimizing your heat requirements. Wood has about 7000 btu's per pound at 100 percent efficiency which no stove acheives so either choice requires a lot of fuel. If I was in your shoes I would search for a used pellet stove which just needs a through the wall fitting, get through the winter, seal that chimney up and make some long term plans.

thomas rubino wrote:Your installers are correct about your current chimney.
If you try to run a "blaze-king " type catalytic stove with a large viewing window full of dancing flames...
The 700F or higher exhaust temperatures could burn your house down.

700f exhaust temps from a blaze king?? I'm sorry Thomas but thats simply not true at all. I know at least 6 people that run a blaze king all winter and they average a stack temperature of about 200F, in a warmer climate that can be pushed even lower. In terms of off the shelf wood stoves right now i believ they have the lowest stack temperature out of any of them.

Personally, I would not touch a fire-compromised chimney with a barge pole. It's an unexploded bomb, in slow motion. Don't poke it with a stick and hope for the best. Plug, abandon, and move on.

It was apparently never a proper safe chimney, and is in the way of any improvement so needs to be completely removed.

Hi JohnP,
I'm not a RMH guy, and I have only dreamed about building one so far.

The chimney is its own issue, and I agree with those saying it really needs to be fixed or abandoned.

Based on your description, it seems like you are comparing a traditional stove with the liberator alone. In that comparison, I don't think there is much difference. I think one could make the argument that the liberator is still better as far as efficiency and that the time saved in gathering wood and the amount of heat going into the house instead of out the chimney would probably still offset the cost. However, if that was the only choice I would go for the traditional wood stove because I like the ambiance of flickering flames.

That is not the only option. Where a rocket stove (which is what the Liberator really is) excels is the ability to hook it up to a mass. Then you have a rocket mass heater (RMH). You talk about getting up at night to rebuild the fire, but if you have a mass, you shouldn't need to get up at night in most climates. You build a fire in the evening and charge up the mass and it will release heat throughout the night, allowing you to sleep well. Then you can start another fire the next morning.

Permies please don't hate on me too much for this opinion :)... without the mass, you lose a huge benefit of a RMH, because then it is just a RH. And RH are great for cooking, but the gap is not as big between traditional well built stoves and a RH on its own for space heating.