geocells (and why your next driveway, parking space, or entry road may want them)

I had no idea what subforum to put this under - feel free to move me where appropriate.  I thought I wasn't going to have type to write this for a bit but I decided to just start a small conversation even if I mean to say more if people like the conversation.



Geocells are a soil stabilization technology that basically let you use about HALF the 'road' thickness (half the concrete, half the gravel parking lot thickness) and also let you build on slanted surfaces like steeper slopes or retaining walls.

In the same way that earthbags are just a container for earth, which turns the tensile strength of the bag material holding its shape together into a useful stackable object with more horizontal stability, imagine an egg crate carton full of dirt compared to 12 small balls of dirt.  If you put weight atop 12 small balls of dirt they just squish down and mash together.  But if you put it on the egg carton, the dirt compresses vertically, the squished dirt becomes a horizontal load limited by the strength of the carton, and it would hold more weight than the same amount of dirt without a carton.

Maybe that's not the best analogy but a picture will tell alot.  Geocells could be made of metal but are more often plastic, or it might be made of other things.  Military guys should know about this for making stabilized airfields and such over in the sandbox i've heard.  Talk among yourselves/just trying to get it started..

https://www.prestogeo.com/products/soil-stabilization/geoweb-geocells/




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellular_confinement
in wood




from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellular_confinement#Research

Early research (Bathurst and Jarrett, 1988)[13] found that cellular confinement reinforced gravel bases are "equivalent to about twice the thickness of unreinforced gravel bases"

Brian, I can say that geocells are used extensively to stabilise slopes when earth is being seeded or planted out.
It reduces erosion in the period before plants and grass takes off.

Its used where solid paving is not wanted so 100% runoff does not happen or heat may be reflected off concrete.
Its generally made with material that does not degrade,
- plastics
- concrete blocks with holes

GEO TEXTILES are used under roads to prevent water etc pushing up through the base and subgrade of a road.

No need to stop there, continue.    I was hoping someone with more knowledge than me could bring people up to speed on both a technology and attitude that I assume is uncommon - because I had no idea of this years ago.  My thoughts were focused on cob and strawbale and rammed earth and i'd never imagined of a tech that could basically cut in half the thickness of driveway and parking area meaning half the cubic volume of hauled material, less labor (cuz less stuff to move and spread about), and less total cost.

It's another reason why I mentioned my 'return' to stick built housing logic to at least reanalyze the problem of how to build a house - I might love an alternative idea, but to me it's more about Appropriate Technology that you adapt or modify.  

Brian, do you believe a stick building is suited to your needs?
Its possible to start with a stick building say 14 x 14 ft and then add rooms in either stick, rammed earth or even adobe later.
With Stick builing you need a floor, either stumps etc of a concrete slab.
Earten floors or even used brick floors are possible.

John C Daley wrote:Brian, do you believe a stick building is suited to your needs?
Its possible to start with a stick building say 14 x 14 ft and then add rooms in either stick, rammed earth or even adobe later.
With Stick builing you need a floor, either stumps etc of a concrete slab.

Not necessarily but the philosophy behind stick building is very suited to my needs.  Use technology, make it go up fast, and just gett'r done.

I like geocells because it's a way to cut in half the amount of hauled in gravel or anything else to make parking, drive in areas, etc.  It also seemed like a tech I didn't see mentioned here (I searched) which may have alot of other applicability - steep sloped or non-flat gardening, retaining walls, i'm betting some kind of other permaculture-ish use could be inspired by using these structures.  I'd like to see if there's greener alternatives too, maybe manufacturing the webbing out of bioplastic, or maybe there is some kind of natural fiber to put into a textile, similar to how in theory you could try to make a natural fiber type earthbag material too.

Specifically for the philosophy of stick built houses i'm a big fan of deep foundation screw piles, with a raised floor for the house - under the house might be gravel or something else with drainage instead of a slab having experienced basement flooding ruining everything i've had twice now and never wanting to ever again no matter what they say about what flood plain i'm in -  and using geocells with that gravel would be likely.  It wouldn't even need to be for weight bearing reasons I mean, i'd just be tempted to stick in the screw piles and then layer cubic yards of gravel over geocells for the whole area both under and around the house right on over to the quonset and parking places inbetween.  My goal isn't to pave the earth I just want a controlled area with neither dirt becoming mud nor growing weeds to deal with as upkeep.  (if there's a reason to reconsider this plan though I would)

Consider mechanical concrete:

http://www.mechanicalconcrete.com/uses/gallery/

It's basically tires with the sides cut off and packed full of  gravel.
The technique is not remotely natural but it does reuse freely available materials.
If the agragate  is also a reused material, like tumbled glass or urbanites, the cost and environmental impact can be further reduced.

For a more environmentally friendly version, are any of the geocells made of pure basalt fiber?
Basalt fiber is basically refined rock and pretty benign.
The manufacturing process is less benign, because of the energy demands if nothing else.

Sticking just to the housing situation.
Using screw piles because you like them is a good idea.
Using geo cells under the house site may be a waste of cells, gravel and time.
GEOCELLS
Use of geo cells will not necessarily save the volume of gravel used, the cells prevent the gravel or soil from being moved around.

Oh Permies, always giving me info about the stuff I even didn’t know I needed!

I’m going to make a path from our house to our little field that I’m going to transform into a garden. However the field is in a lot lower level than the house and currently the drop is too steep for a wheelbarrow or even walking with ease, so I have to make a raised path. Geocells! Now I just have to figure out how and from what (hnmm could I craft something myself..), but this was a huge step forward!

I don’t know if that made any sense but the point is thank you for posting this Brian!

Hm... What happens with the material later?
If it is plastic or metal with holes, then the roots will grow between the cells, so it will be impossible to remove them.
And for trees they may not be big enough?

William Bronson wrote:Consider mechanical concrete:
http://www.mechanicalconcrete.com/uses/gallery/

For a more environmentally friendly version, are any of the geocells made of pure basalt fiber?

Aye, i've seen those before, and you could argue they are like a form of geocell, although the 'mesh' is very very large and it forces the thickness of a tire which may or may not be desirable.

I've not heard of any made of basalt - there isn't a market interest.  This is very much from the western philosophy of designing things.  Nothing is preventing anyone from making a basalt version if they wanted to which would probably only be bought by permies type people.  All 'normal' type uses for this tech - the military, big money contractors - wont care about any environmental issues they arent legally forced to.

John C Daley wrote:Sticking just to the housing situation.
Using screw piles because you like them is a good idea.
Using geo cells under the house site may be a waste of cells, gravel and time.

Use of geo cells will not necessarily save the volume of gravel used, the cells prevent the gravel or soil from being moved around.

Mostly I like deep foundations.  I'm not sure how anything under the house would be wasted though - if i'm raising a floor i'm either having something with drainage, or i'm not.  Gravel drains and you can crawl around on it to fix things under the house, urbanite I wouldn't want to try laying on my back to fix plumbing down there.  I'm not sure what else i'd use.  The only reason to use geocells is just to be sure nothing is shifiting around - becomes maybe 4 inches gravel in geocells instead of 8 inches.  I'd probably store something under the house just cuz you can always use more storage but i'll agree since it's not being REGULARILY used for things moving around on top of it there shouldn't be much shifting.  Maybe a 2 inch thick geocell for rarely used walking paths or something.  :)

I'm not sure why they wouldn't save the volume?  Every article i've read suggests "same weight bearing in half the thickness".

Saana Jalimauchi wrote:Oh Permies, always giving me info about the stuff I even didn’t know I needed!

I’m going to make a path from our house to our little field that I’m going to transform into a garden. However the field is in a lot lower level than the house and currently the drop is too steep for a wheelbarrow or even walking with ease, so I have to make a

If you're not doing steps of some sort yeah, though this has me wonder or thinking you could literally make geocell steps on a small scale, instead of having to pour concrete everywhere a step at a time.  Just dig a little, put in the matrix, and shovel in some gravel.

Is that "as good or long lasting" as concrete?  No, that's not the point.  It's simple, fast, should be cheap, should be 'good enough' and you can always tear it out and put in longer lasting solutions later.  Maybe you dont know if you want to live on your current land forever, but you still need some steps that aren't mud - i'd happily make geocell steps and walk paths in my backyard using half the thickness of gravel and having less spreading and spraying and splaying all over the lawn.

Sebastian Köln wrote:Hm... What happens with the material later?
If it is plastic or metal with holes, then the roots will grow between the cells, so it will be impossible to remove them.
And for trees they may not be big enough?

Theyre kind of intended to be used in long lasting projects - something like a steep hillside, the geocells let you have a slope that would otherwise collapse, the roots just tie in and make it even stronger.  Removing would involve cutting or mechanical digging like a shovel i'd think.  It would be messy.

But it's not like removing concrete is nothing either.  Theyre a tool to be used where appropriate, nothing more.

Brian sometimes there is no need to use geocells.
They are great for traffic areas and on slopes.
They dont cut down the amount of gravel needed.
The area Under a house does not normally have anything laid, just rake the surface before installing the floor structure.

I don't buy that this is the solution that solves all problems. That's a little too close to "marketing" for my taste.

It's not an invalid concept, though. Personally, I'd bet it won't take long for permies/homesteaders who are rich on innovation and energy, and slim on cash, to replicate the effect without leaving manufactured debris in the soil. My 2c.

You may be correct Douglas, but its use is pretty specialised and not used regularly on many job sites.

I am not a huge fan of geocells or fabric only because at some point they fail, and it is something that has to be bought.

I have gotten federal grants for some farm access roads on my farm, and in working with the State Soils Engineer, she was adamant that I used fabric in my roads as some approached nine percent grades. After seeing how I made my subgrades for the roads though, she recanted.

I use rock.

It worked for the Romans so why not today? And living in Maine I got plenty of rock. There is cost to moving rock granted, but it is a one and done thing.

Douglas Alpenstock wrote:I don't buy that this is the solution that solves all problems. That's a little too close to "marketing" for my taste.

It's not an invalid concept, though. Personally, I'd bet it won't take long for permies/homesteaders who are rich on innovation and energy, and slim on cash, to replicate the effect without leaving manufactured debris in the soil. My 2c.

I wont claim that at times i'm not like the guy who just got a hammer and is looking for a nail...  I really do like how it enables a new set of solutions though.  It's something not normally in the permies toolkit.

I'd love to see people innovate better ways to do this.


To the previous I still dont understand how/why geocells wouldnt reduce the gravel needed when as near as I can tell i'm reading the contrary everywhere unless my mind is missing some step of the process.  When reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellular_confinement#Research Early research (Bathurst and Jarrett, 1988)[13] found that cellular confinement reinforced gravel bases are "equivalent to about twice the thickness of unreinforced gravel bases" and that geocells performed better than single sheet reinforcement schemes (geotextiles and geogrids) and were more effective in reducing lateral spreading of infill under loading than conventional reinforced bases.  I'd read multiple times elsewhere "4 inches with geocells will support what required 8 inches without of roadbed thickness" or similar and heard the whole reason to pay more to use the meshes was money saved on the thickness of bed to handle that weight unless there's some part of this i'm not mentally parsing..

Brian, I read that link to the geo-cells;
There are some points that need to be lifted out.
I think you are misinterpreting the real deal. I have underlined the key bits
"The lifespan of CCS in slope protection applications, for example, is less critical as vegetative growth and root interlock help stabilize the soil.
This in effect compensates for any long-term loss of confinement in the CCS. [ IE it breaks apart]
Similarly, load support applications for low volume roads not subject to heavy loading typically have a short design life; therefore minor loss of performance is tolerable.
However, in critical infrastructure applications such as reinforcement of the structural layers of [ major ] highway pavements, railways and platforms, long-term dimensional stability is critical.
As long as the volumetric area of the geocell does not change more than 2-3%, compaction and performance is maintained and settlements are minimized."
[ destruction of the CCS by any means, will allow the rock material to move and thus the base will break down ]

So we are not looking at using 50mm instead of 100mm of rock for a road base, we are looking at 300mm instead of 600mm over soft ground, which normally would need say a 600mm depth of subgrade to not fail.
By confining the aggregate, movement sideways is limited and the whole 'mattress' [ road subgrade] stays in place.
Do I make it clear?
Driveways, under building situations are completely different scenarios.

Just came across this thread Brian, so a bit late to the party.
We live in an area of sodic soil so our ground is either rock (no crowbar is getting through that sucker) hard or yoghurt.  We used a product called Geohex https://geohex.com.au/

  for the 160 M (525') driveway which has proved to be worth its weight in gold.  It is made from recycled plastic and we put a non-woven fabric under it.  In the last La nina wet, our driveway never missed a beat.  I think that some of these products have a place in site management.  We have used timber poles across high traffic areas to stop erosion and divert water with really good success.