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Flushing toilet for Gravity fed system, low flow

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posted 2 years ago

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I'm trying to find a solution for a problem we have had for a few years now. My home is an old farmhouse, water is from a gravity fed spring/shallow well. Minimal pressure at the house. Without adding in a new pressure tank is there any style of toilet or modification I can do to make it so the toilet will flush better? As is we had to replace the old 2.8gpf toilet with a 1.6gpf over a year ago. It's not enough. Frequently need at least another half gal of water dumped in the tank to complete a flush. Can't seem to find anything on the market these days with a 2gpf.
Without any water pressure we don't get the additional push from water refilling the tank. I've thought about a pressure assist insert but I don't think we have enough water pressure to fill it correctly.

Cristo Balete

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There are small electrical inline pumps called boosters. They are inserted into the plumbing usually just inside the structure or where water comes into bathroom. Don't know where you are, but Everflo is a major brand, they have several types. It should be installed where it is protected from the elements. And then all plumbing ought to have a pressure check, because if it's old plumbing, new high pressure might be too much for it.

Otherwise, why not just use a bucket to flush the whole thing? A bucket that holds 11 to 13 quarts ought to do it. You can save a lot of water by peeing into containers and decanting onto compost pile.

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Anne Miller

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This might or might not work for you so I am going to make a suggestion, anyway.

I found years ago that I can flush the toilet by just pouring a bucket of water into the toilet.

The way I found this was I had mopped the floor and needed to get rid of the dirty mopping water.

I've used this trick when the power has been off and I don't want to run the water due to the electric well-pump.

This might not be as easy as you would like and probably would not work with guests.

Best wishes on finding a solution.

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Shea Loner

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Cristo Balete wrote:There are small electrical inline pumps called boosters. They are inserted into the plumbing usually just inside the structure or where water comes into bathroom. Don't know where you are, but Everflo is a major brand, they have several types. It should be installed where it is protected from the elements. And then all plumbing ought to have a pressure check, because if it's old plumbing, new high pressure might be too much for it.

Otherwise, why not just use a bucket to flush the whole thing? A bucket that holds 11 to 13 quarts ought to do it. You can save a lot of water by peeing into containers and decanting onto compost pile.

The bathroom is very tiny. There is no place on the floor to keep a bucket where it won't get kicked or spilled. And it takes a min or 2 to fill a bucket enough to flush depending on time of year. I would not trust any of the household lines to contain any more pressure then they do Currently.
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John C Daley

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I take it the reduced amount of water in the flush is not enough to actually flush the line?
If that is the case I believe your pipes down stream are blocked.
Is it possible to trace the pipe and check for tree roots etc that may have worked their way in?

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Shea Loner

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John C Daley wrote:I take it the reduced amount of water in the flush is not enough to actually flush the line?
If that is the case I believe your pipes down stream are blocked.
Is it possible to trace the pipe and check for tree roots etc that may have worked their way in?

OH must definitely. The septic hasn't been touched in so long a previous generation built half an addition over it, and planted a row of cedars down the line. Without tearing everything down and redoing the septic the only option I have is somehow increasing the flow at the tank.
The addition will be coming down sometime in the next year or two and the septic will be addressed then. It's just one more thing in a long list of cob jobs that need fixing.

John C Daley

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You may be able to run a 'rooter' through it and cut growth out.
Increasing the flow will just work until its more blocked.

R Scott

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There are kits available online and diy versions on YouTube of the old high mount tank with the chain flushing handle. The extra velocity gives it the boost like the pressure inserts but only needs enough extra pressure to lift the water an extra 6 feet higher.

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R Scott

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Another option is to find an old full flush toilet and rebuild it. Around here, habitat re-stores will sell them but I know some places that is against law.

John C Daley

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I would not worry about the law about the flush volumes.
Buy, I would encourage the reduction in water usage at all times.

Matt McSpadden

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I agree with R Scott on getting a toilet that uses a decent amount of water to flush. If you have your own septic system, then the extra water going down the toilet is going to be watering your plants nearby or refilling the water table. I think both of those are perfectly acceptable trade-offs for the extra water for getting the toilet to flush properly.

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Mike Haasl

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If you have enough water pressure to fill the tank of the toilet, then the fault is in the design of the toilet or the downstream plumbing. At least I don't know of many "pressure assisted" toilets in domestic use, assuming you're living in the US. Usually once the flush lever is pushed, the tank water dumps down through the lower part of the toilet and some around the rim. Then the incoming water sometimes dribbles into the bowl of the tank to make sure it's up to height until the float is floating in the tank.

When you put extra water in the tank or chase a turd down the drain with more water, does it flow reasonably fast? If so, I think the problem is the toilet design. If not, I suspect the plugged drain lines.

For a good flowing "old" toilet, look at resale shops like the Habitat for Humanity. Or the dump. Or talk to remodeling companies who probably rip them out from time to time.

For the drain, drain cleaning companies can cut away roots and can clean out a sewer run. It only takes a few years for the trees to regrow but I don't know if there are any better options.

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Anne Miller

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Dear hubby replaced our toilet with a "low flow toilet".

Is that something that might be sold in your part of the world?

Invasive plants are Earth's way of insisting we notice her medicines. Stephen Herrod Buhner
Everyone learns what works by learning what doesn't work. Stephen Herrod Buhner

Shea Loner

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I'm in upstate NY. The "low flow" toilets are the issue. Because they use a lower amt of water. They are also now code because of our dear Governor, so the likely hood of getting an older style is slim. I have been thinking of doing a pull chain style, that is definitely an option.
Part of the problem is Def the brand of toilet and its design. If anyone has a recommendation on one that works let me know.
It does take a solid 5 min for the tank to refill after a flush with our water pressure.

John C Daley

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I can tell you, its not your 'dear Governor' that is the issue,
its the Civil Engineers behind him trying to make the existing clean water supply be available for humans.
Water is wasted often.

With new long smooth sewerage pipes, instead of the short rough ceramic pipes lower grades can be used which means huge savings in construction and pumping costs
so 'low flow' flushes exist.
- Old systems need the bigger flush because there are joints every 3 feet.
- the joints allow roots to enter
- when the pipes are completely blocked, no amount of 'pressure' or volume of flush will work.

Joe Danielek

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What about composting toilets? What are the County and State laws in your area? What is gray water, black water? Makes perfect sense, low flow toilets to save water then you double or triple flush... politicians.

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Shea Loner

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I would be just fine with a composting toilet. Other family members would Not. Doubt they would be legal here anyway.

Cristo Balete

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Shea, one more thought.

Long ago toilets had the tank up near the ceiling with a long tube down to the toilet. They are often seen in Victorian houses. If there's any way you can get a separate line to come in through the exterior wall at that heigh it can fill at a leisurely pace with gravity flow pressure. The tank height should be able to give room to get into it to change any parts in the future.

Or maybe even its own dedicated water pipe using gravity flow at the level it's at now, rather than having to be pushed up from below by pressure. Customize a lid to let the new pipe fill it.

Using thick PVC pipe for the water so no algae can form in it, insulated, and painted to match the exterior/interior.

They aren't cheap toilets, but that kind of investment would add value to your house and your lives.

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Anne Miller

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For folks who understand how pressure tanks work would one help solve this problem?

Invasive plants are Earth's way of insisting we notice her medicines. Stephen Herrod Buhner
Everyone learns what works by learning what doesn't work. Stephen Herrod Buhner

John Drake

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Another solution to the low flush toilets is overflow extension tubes. They're basically just plastic piping made to slide over the outside of the overflow tube to extend the height that the water level can fill in the tank. It's also a better solution than buying a new flush valve. I have attached an example of one from NuFlush.com, which has 13 different sizes of tube to fit all overflow tubes: https://nuflush.com/product/light-blue-nuflush-toilet-overflow-extension-tube-1-175-in-or-29-845-mm-id/

Since all the single packs are the same price, I would order the closest size up, since it will be glued to the outside of the overflow tube. Just leave a message with your measurement when you checkout, and they will send you extra tubes on either side of the measurement along with glue! There is an extension tube category on the website that I linked above. The extension tubes are able to be trimmed easily with an electric or manual saw of your choosing. We would recommend going no higher than 1/2-inch below the flush handle hole.

With regards to the legality of increasing the water level in low-flush toilets, I believe the law is directly applied to the toilet part manufacturing companies that sell parts in CA, where the 1.28 GPF toilets are being placed in new homes. The homeowner can modify their toilets how they please, and it is not illegal to increase the power of your flush. The manufacturing companies are responsible for entertaining the low flush laws.

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