KitchenAid grain mill adjustment?

I have a KitchenAid grain grinder attachment that seems like it's coming out of adjustment.  The finest I can grind is about cornmeal consistence which ain't very good.  I've taken it apart a few times and cleaned out any junk.  When I put it together and use my mechanical brain to assess it, I don't see any way to get it to grind finer.  On the finest setting it has about a millimeter of gap between the grinding surfaces.  I don't see any adjustment (other than the big obvious knob on the front I've already played with).  I can't really believe that the grinding disks are wore down that much since it hasn't gotten that much use (maybe 10 gallons of wheat has gone thru it in the last decade).  

I wondered if a donut shaped bushing might have gone missing but if so, it would be on the wrong side of the assembly (making it more open, not more snug) so I doubt that's it.  Here are pics of the inside, the first is with the sloppy grinding shaft pushed towards the mixer to make the gap tight/fine, second is pushing it the other way showing how sloppy it is (this is the grind I'm getting on the Fine setting) and the third is with the grind knob opened up to a coarse grind.

Any ideas?

We first ground our wheat in a grinder which we use to grind whole corn into scratch feed. Even on the finest setting and restricting the flow into the grinder, we got wheat flour which was smaller than corn meal size, but not the really fine flour we wanted. Regrinding did not seem to help much.

We bit the bullet and bought the Mock Mill 200. Pricey at about $400, but we love it. Sourdough bread most every day. Hope this helps.

Thanks John!  Today I found a "fiber washer" at the big box store that was a good thickness to shim between the adjustment knob and the grinding wheel.  I put that in there today and it closed up the gap enough to make decent flour.

It's a weird thing to have to do though so I still wish someone knew how to adjust these the correct way.

And have you tried YT university?  Or asked the customer service people?  Or a local small appliance repair company?

I tried youtube and only found videos of how to use it.  Haven't tried the other options because I hoped a permie out here already figured it out :)

And that may be absolutely true😊!
Good luck!

I have a very nice stand alone grain mill with an easy adjustment from coarse to fine.  I love it!

Mike -

Which model is this?  Is it the most current model (KGM), or is it one of the older Hobart models (GM or GM-A)?

I don't have one, but I've borrowed my sister's (current model KGM) to give it a test run, though I haven't disemboweled it.  My own grain mill is a Messerschmitt Jupiter/Family Grain Mill with the KitchenAid PTO adapter, but I'm shopping for something different.  Maybe the KA compatible MockMill, maybe a Retsel.  Or, perhaps even one of the older Hobart-made KA mills.

I did look at this video form KA:

but I really can't see any shim washers or similar which look like they could go AWOL.

However, if the adjustment knob hunk, with its burr, weren't fully seated into the main housing (for whatever reason) that could stand the runner burr off of the bed burr and result in too coarse of a grind.  Not saying that's what's happened in your case, though - it's just a thought.  No doubt you've checked that already...

Kevin

I do like watching those videos from Mr. mixer where he rebuilds the KitchenAid machines. Maybe he knows something because he can tear apart a machine and put it back together in nothing flat. Mrmixer.store is his site.

Thanks Kevin!  One thing she mentions is to turn the adjustment knob a couple times counterclockwise before assembling.  I'm pretty sure it's seating up tight around the perimeter but I'll try that and see if that does anything.

Kevin, I have the Mockmill attachment. Although I don't use it a lot, when I do it's usually for a couple loaves of bread and it performs very well. Also, I mount it on a 30 year old Ultra Power 300 Watt KA. I've followed Mr. Mixer's re-greasing video for two mixers.

Tracy Steele wrote:Kevin, I have the Mockmill attachment. Although I don't use it a lot, when I do it's usually for a couple loaves of bread and it performs very well. Also, I mount it on a 30 year old Ultra Power 300 Watt KA. I've followed Mr. Mixer's re-greasing video for two mixers.

Tracy -

Thanks for the vote of confidence on the MockMill attachment.  My daughter has one of the standalone countertop models from MockMill (100?  200?  I don't quite remember).  She uses hers a bunch - bakes at least once per week - and loves it.  It does grind flour in a hurry, compared to my admittedly limited experiments, but the flour still doesn't feel like it has been unduly warmed by the process.  Which is interesting.  I am guessing that indicates more shearing and less crushing, but that's just a guess.

I've also entertained the Retsel, which is stand alone, largely on the recommendation of Kiko Denzer's wife Hannah Field.  In a sidebar in their "Build Your Own Earth Oven" book, she says something to the effect that she really wasn't happy with the fineness of home ground flour and how that affects it's absorption until she tried using a Retsel, which was a gift to them.  I know Retsel makes some replacement stones (for instance, they make stones for Corona-style steel burr mills), but I haven't seem any which are explicitly noted as working with the KA grain mill attachment.  Hannah is a "real" baker - I am just a hack who fools around in the kitchen when not doing other things - so I'm sure the differences in flour grinds really matter for her efforts.  I just figure I need every advantage I can get, given my amateur status!

One thing which MockMill appears to have gotten "right" is that the flour looks like it will drop straight into a bowl which is in place on the mixer, whereas the KA grain mill attachment requires positioning the bowl in front of the mixer, ideally on some sort of riser or plinth, to minimize stray flour (I use a glass mixing bowl when trialing my sister's mill between Christmas and New Year's).  It's a bit of a lash-up affair.

My KitchenAid is ancient - an old K5 bowl lift.  My brother found it in a second hand/charity shop for $15 or 20, and I gave him an extra $5 as a finder's fee.  This was 30 years or so ago, and it was old then.  I checked the gearbox grease and brushes when I bought it, but should probably go through it again.  I'll check out the Mr. Mixer videos.

Thanks again.

Kevin

I'm no help since the KGM She Who Must Be Obeyed brought home at least a year ago is still new in the box.  That said, when I get a bit more time, I could pull it out and see if ours has the same sort of play or not.

Hi Kevin,

I have been less than happy with my Messerschmitt grain mill.

John F Dean wrote:Hi Kevin,

I have been less than happy with my Messerschmitt grain mill.

I guess mine is OK when hand cranked - far from perfect, but OK - but (at least when running hard wheat berries through it, I don't remember if rye was any better), shakes, pops and creaks when run with the KA mixer drive.  I really only use it hand cranked, now.  I don't want to ruin it by driving it with the KA PTO.  At least if it feels like it's jamming when hand powered, I can back up and try again.

I suspect that the auger is actually too small in diameter (or the auger is to wobbly or flexible) for the housing's internal diameter dimension, leading to grain kernels jamming in the loose clearance between the edges of the feed auger flights and the ID of the housing.  I'm not certain that's what's happening, but I am suspicious.  It will leave a few wheat berries in the barrel of the housing, never feeding them into the burrs, if I don't tip the mixer - or at least, the attachment - forward so that the berries roll into the business end under gravity.  This happens whether hand driven or by KA PTO.  I guess I could either try to line the housing with some shim stock (affix with double sided tape or some such), or possibly add a fin of plastic or hard rubber to the auger flights, in an attempt to tighten up the clearance, and see if it seems to behave any better.  Though that experiment would not be without risk of incurring damage, either.  I could also order a spare auger from Pleasant Hill and shave down the OD a bit to increase the clearance (but, the "right" clearance is likely to be very dependent on the size of the seeds being ground).

I don't have much basis for comparison between mills, other than my sister's KA KGM attachment and my daughter's countertop standalone MockMill.  Both of which seem to be notably better at turning wheat berries into flour - faster, and not noticeably warmer.  I think my daughter's is also capable of making finer flour, though I haven't done a detailed analysis, that's just my casual impression.  But, hers uses stones (ceramic, of some sort, I believe), whereas the KA attachment and the FGM/Messerschmitt have steel burrs, so that may not really be a fair race.

In any case, I am looking for another grinding solution.  Ideally, something that can be hand driven in a pinch, and - in a perfect world - capable of grinding everything from flint corn to coffee beans and masa.  Might as well aim high!  In the near term, I would settle for something which can make make decent whole meal wheat flour under power without sounding like a bowl of Rice Crispies freshly milked, with a bass line of popcorn popping.

It looks like the MockMill KA attachments are back ordered until the end of February or beginning of March, no matter the source company, so I am temporarily spared from certain temptation on that count!

A few years back I stumbled on a hand cranked mill in a junk shop. Not sure if the cost …maybe $20. I can’t remember.  Anyway, it is my goto for smaller amounts.  I also have a Wondermill that I plug in for large loads.

Kevin,

When it comes to using the flour I haven't gotten into the nuances of the actual grinding result, like absorption, as I'm just throwing something together for fun. I decided on the KA attachment after reading/watching some material here, The Prairie Homestead. Jill Winger had a promotion going on for it, so I got it at a decent price along with several pounds of different wheat berries. I do like the fact that it feeds directly into the bowl.

Your quest for an all-in-one grinder is one that a lot of people go on. I think the key would be quickly interchangeable stones so that anything ground with an oil content, like coffee beans, will be dedicated for that purpose only.

On your KA find, I have a similar one. About two years ago I saw a post online for a used KA mixer w/missing attachments and bowl for $20. Didn't need it, but thought one KA is good, two is better.

Tracy

Mike Haasl wrote:Thanks Kevin!  One thing she mentions is to turn the adjustment knob a couple times counterclockwise before assembling.  I'm pretty sure it's seating up tight around the perimeter but I'll try that and see if that does anything.

Mike -

Any luck with this?  I took my sister's apart two weekends ago (asked her to bring it along when they came), because I was measuring the burr diameter.  Not quite 3" (about 70mm) is the stock diameter, but I think 3" stones would fit in the housing, if they could be had.  But, I don't see that any other standard issue grain mill commonly available in the US uses 3" stones - not Corona/Victorio, not Wonder Mill Jr., not any of the Mockmills, not any of the Retsels.  So, unless one wanted to make stones from raw stock, it looks like steel burrs are where it's at with the KA attachment.  No doubt there is an income opportunity lurking here!

Anyway, I had her KA mill pulled apart so I could measure the burr diameter(s) - they're both the same, but you don't know that for certain until you check - with a caliper, and didn't see anything obvious that would lead to your excess gap and coarse grind.  I did not disassembly the grind adjustment, however, so there could be something in there, I suppose.

Tracy Steele wrote:Your quest for an all-in-one grinder is one that a lot of people go on. I think the key would be quickly interchangeable stones so that anything ground with an oil content, like coffee beans, will be dedicated for that purpose only.

Tracy -

The latest news in this quest is that I purchased a used Retsel Little Ark from Ebay.  It is missing the funnel, the shaft has some surface rust, and is only has stone burrs, which looked slightly dirty.  But, it was very cheap.  I've seen others improvise a funnel with a cut off soda bottle (jam the neck into the funnel interface).

I'll try running some rice through the stones to clean them.  If they are too far gone, I'll get some fresh ones from Retsel.  I'll also order a funnel (maybe even both sizes - 1 and 3 qt.), steel burrs (for more oily/moist grinds, and perhaps even a spare auger.  I've heard that patience is a virtue when dealing with Retsel's service department, but so far, I have no direct experience.

The reason for a spare auger is that I found this video on YT:

He provides no details on the conversion, but it can't bee to difficult.  I've been noodling on how to reverse the mill, so that the flour falls into a mounted bowl, like the Mockmill attachment, but so far, nothing brilliant.  Maybe inspiration will strike once I have the mill in my hot little hands!  Anyway, a spare auger would let me modify the current (slightly rusty) one to fit the KA mixer's PTO without feeling too badly - file (or mill, at work, since my milling machine is in dry storage) four flats on the end to engage the drive socket.  In the near term, replicating what is seen in the video would be dandy.

I am hoping that the Retsel will be capable of a finer grind - maybe even approaching 00.  Hannah Field (Kiko Denzer's professional baker wife) seems to be favorbly impressed with their motorized Retsel.  As far as I can tell, the stones are fairly similar between all of the Retsel models.

Kevin Olson wrote:Mike -

Any luck with this?  

Thanks for digging into it Kevin!  The fiber washer ended up being about the right thickness and it worked.  I'm sure it's not the right way to fix it but I sure didn't see another way.

Tracy Steele wrote:I've followed Mr. Mixer's re-greasing video for two mixers.

In addition to Mr. Mixer's videos, I found this one, specific to my old K5 bowl lift:


Pretty good garage or basement DIY level of R&R (though I am admittedly, only halfway through the video, so far).