Im an urban homesteader living in community with a precariously damaged septic system. The effluent waste pipe is cracked and we are getting backup in our basement.
Rather than pay the 22k sewer connection
convenience fee that our fair city is asking, i am exploring the possibility of an indoor compost
Toilet.
I live in a community of musicians and artists and do not want to rely on everyone for routine maintenance. I want a low maintenance “automatic “ system that we can just replace our existing flushing toilet with.
I have read some precious posts but most are at least 10 years old. I have also been through many sites that advertise toilets; there are so many and such a variety of price points too!
My vote is for a simple Jenkins model. Consult his Humanure Hadbook please. You can craft a wooden masterpiece to enclose your bucket for added aesthetics. If wood shavings are hard to acquire, I have used peat moss or a soil-leaf blend for mine.
It takes a bit of effort, but if surrounded by artists , this could certainly build your street cred
Rico Loma wrote:My vote is for a simple Jenkins model. Consult his Humanure Hadbook please. You can craft a wooden masterpiece to enclose your bucket for added aesthetics. If wood shavings are hard to acquire, I have used peat moss or a soil-leaf blend for mine.
It takes a bit of effort, but if surrounded by artists , this could certainly build your street cred
I have the handbook and have read it a few times….
I appreciate the sentiment but i know already what it would look like/// me cleaning up everyone’s sh#t!
There will always be some handling involved if you are producing compost, but this system seems the best compromise to me. Paul is working on a load of new media about the system right now and I think running a kickstarter soon to help fund it. So keep your eyes open on the forums!
We have what I think is a a Sun Mar…bought it in 1983? Current price is about 2000. It requires a vent pipe and electricity to operate a vent fan and a low wattage heater. It dry flushes the waste into a compartment containing peat moss and diatomaceous earth. There the waste is processed It is eventually removed as powder through a drawer in the bottom. There is a learning curve. Too much urine causes problems as does too much TP. And because it is a composting toilet, the contents have to be stirred occasionally. This is done through a built in device and does not require contact with the contents.
To be is to do …Kant
To do is to be ..Nietzsche
Do be do be do…Sinatra
Both of these systems minimize interactions with fresh poop, but there would be some amount of blackwater to deal with, much less with the dry system, but still some.
We've used a humanure type system since 1982, before the book was published. We use 2 buckets side by side, 1 for liquids and the other for solids. The liquids get poured onto the garden compost pile. Solids go into a compost bin. We have 2 sets of the buckets so that when they are emptied they can sit outside, upside down, to dry out. We put recycled wood shavings from the root cellar or leaves in the bottom of the solids bucket to make it easier to empty. Rubber buckets work well as do stainless steel buckets or stock pots. The solids compost for a year and then get spread onto corn plantings as a top dress for young plants. It takes less than 10 minutes/week for a household of 2 to empty and replace buckets.
I know someone who built a farmstay in their barn loft and an early version of this is what handles all the blackwater. Works beautifully and pretty much zero maintenance...all they need to do is use the toilet or peel and wash a bunch of veggies once in a while if they don't have guests for an extended period. This tops up the food supply for the worms. The effluent discharge goes to a constructed wetland and waters some fruit trees and berry bushes. One of our recent PDC students also has a current model installed on their house.
No one ever has to handle the shit. Someday in the distant future it may need to get a topup of coir matting. The indoor plumbing fixtures are typical everyday types, and there's no need to train the users other than making sure that nothing nasty gets sent down the drain (which isn't any different from living with a septic tank).
suze Rossi wrote: I want a low maintenance “automatic “ system that we can just replace our existing flushing toilet with.
The reason the water sealed toilet was invented was for folks who wanted what you describe in this quote. Any step away from flushing a toilet will involve some level of intervention on your behalf.
Maybe read through the descriptions of different options and decide what level of involvement you are willing to do.
For us, bucket system, hands down. I don't mind handling it and this allows me to use the compost intentionally for specific things.
"The genius of American farm experts is very well demonstrated here: they can take a solution and divide it neatly into two problems." -Wendell Berry
Pardon me if this isn't suitable for your household , but a solution could be in a ready made package. A compromise perhaps. The pertinent query would be:
Do you have time for a DIY remedy, or would you have more cash on hand? This company has a bit of success with a standard toilet leading to an outdoor composter. An attached biogas pipe supplies a cooking setup. I think the effluent is slowly drained via berries or orchard irrigation. Anyone here have direct experience with the 1500$ to 1900$ kits? Color me intrigued. Setup involves a starter bag added to....horse manure? Or similar. Best of luck
I’m able to get some funds together for a kit type of a system. The city I live in charges a 22,000$ fee just to connect to the sewer, so I am looking at needing to get a loan. I would rather look into investing some money into a dry toilet which also aligns with my values.
The maintaining / compost handling thing doesn’t bother me personally if it were just me and my husband, but we are a household of 5-6 and my concern is the volume of poop to be dealt with and getting folks to comply with maintaining that system.
So a system that can handle some of the composting, not requiring a ton of maintenance on a daily basis is best.
I am going to have a chat with Paul et all in about 10 days about this subject/ situation. Here are some more details about my set up with a couple pics of my current bathroom that I would like to potentially turn into a dry toilet situation.
Background:::
My NE Portland home was built in 1924. It is (as are many houses from this era in this neighborhood) not connected to the city sewer; the waste goes to a cesspool that is below a concrete pad on the north side of our house.
While I was away from home about 6 weeks ago, the cesspool failed and we had blackwater and solid waste backup into our basement. Luckily my housemate was on hand to take care of the disaster. The plumbers that came out sent a scope down and noted that there was a large crack in the concrete pipe that conducts the sewage from the house to the cesspool. They said that the main cause of the clog was toilet paper, so we have been using water to wash and putting all toilet paper in the waste basket for now, but I know this is only a temporary solution.
It was always my plan to set up an outhouse and dry toilet system, and now I absolutely must get this plan into action as soon as possible.
The city of Portland charges about 22K just as a connection fee to hook up to the city sewer system, and this does not include the materials and labor for the connection process. I would rather invest in a dry toilet system and outhouse.
The biggest challenge (as with any system of this sort) from my perspective is to figure out how to streamline maintenance. We are a community of artists and musicians, with very full and busy lives. Then there is the added challenge of being a community hub. We host workshops, musical shows, movies, pizza parties and lots of community events. It is a great honor to hold space in this way, but, to be blunt, it does put stress on our systems and should be considered when designing the toilet//outhouse.
The parameters that we are looking at :::
~system design to either replace completely or augment existing flush toilet system on the cesspool (built in 1920s)
~in my estimation, we will absolutely need to build an outhouse (and we do have space on the property for one, site map to be sent soon)
~the system will be used frequently by up to 6 residents as well as an occasional influx of guests, ie we had about 80 people at our pizza party the other night, for example, which is not typical but does happen occasionally
For our consultation.......
~I hope to discuss whether you suggest we set up some type of dry toilet system in our more conventional house bathroom in addition to the outhouse.
~I hope to work out some type of dry toilet design that will be manageable for our community and an outhouse
~The bathroom is quite small: 60x54 (not including shower)
~I want to also include a site map and discuss a possible outhouse….. im trying to update our site map atm. Our property is a little over 1/4 acre. (Double lot in portland or).
How old is the current toilet? If you do keep a conventional inside system, a modern toilet uses MUCH less water per flush than old ones, and replacing a toilet is a home handyman level job.
Is the cesspool itself damaged, or just the pipe leading to it? Again, depending on the length and depth below ground of the pipe outside and what is above it (concrete? grass?), it might be a relatively simple job to replace the broken pipe. Some hired labor to dig a trench in dirt should not be hard to get. How picky is the city about owners working on their houses?
With the amount of honey that would go into your honey bucket, I withdraw my suggestion of the Jenkins model. Once again I salute the astute Wm Bronson, his idea about a vermiculture flushing toilet is spot on......and a fraction the price of connecting to city sewage
Here is a pic of the site map too! we are hoping to build an outhouse // compost system in the SW area of the property, next to the structure labeled greenhouse!
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IMG_3205-2.JPG
site map
What are you saying? I thought you said that Santa gave you that. And this tiny ad:
The new permaculture playing cards kickstarter is now live!
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