Finding a suitable dairy animal

I have been considering getting a pair of goats… especially since seeing some adorable and willful buckling and feeding them… but also because there is no longer affordable, local, good milk around due to the farmer’s taking a leave. (I don’t know what is happening with the cows. Surely someone is taking care of them?) It might be that the milk is back before anything goat like happens, but it would reduce plastic and provide nutrient recycling and so on and so forth…you know the reasons.

So I have some questions and hopefully they are not too clichéd. They are also very generic. I know every goat is different. But I am still hoping to gain a little insight.

1. Are goats as hard to corral as a highly willful Labrador? I am good with animals but some animals get a whiff of something and then…
2. A half acre or so of diverse forages can support goats—right?
3. Will I have to ward off caprivorous humans with a sword and shield?
4. If I associate too much with goats and serpents will I go to hell?
(sheep have only ever run away from me where goats run straight at me. Is that a bad sign?)
5. Are goats and healthy forests compatible? I am a “forest person” having grown up mushroom hunting, so that is what makes me feel at home…

Another thought of mine is to scrap the goat idea and focus my energy on mushrooms, which don’t eat living trees (that is, young ones) and require less space. Or maybe, just maybe, if I sit outside with turnips in hand at night… and wait…

My perspective is that mushrooms  are not cute, but goats are. Still, I would favor the mushrooms.

If your fence doesn’t hold water it won’t hold goats…so the saying goes. You will need good fences. Half an acre of grass and forbs should be enough for a couple goats in a temperate climate, but you’ll need to set up housing for them and probably store hay for the winter. Just be aware that milking animals need a good food supply or they will languish or dry up.

As to the forest, it all depends on management. Look up silvopasture. Steve Gabriel has a good book on the subject, but I don’t think he was fond of goats.

No opinion on the eternal value of goats. However, I will point out that there are also dairy sheep that might work well for small scale dairy. (East Friesian for example, or some lines of Icelandics)

If you are a reader and enjoy having a manual on hand, I would recommend the book below. It answered so many of my questions.

https://permies.com/wiki/110171/Backyard-Dairy-Goats-Kate-Downham

Maieshe Ljin wrote:
4. If I associate too much with goats and serpents will I go to hell?

You should be fine if you stay away from the serpents with the cat style eyes. If you make friends with those, I would be a little suspicious.

Yes, deer supposedly aren’t that good with forests either. Until they reach a balance. Some of the healthiest forests I know are ones frequented by deer. It’s highly complicated.

All these ruminants have a diversity of food sources… so they maybe should help regulate and increase diversity of herbaceous flora, when their impact is not excessive.

Benedict—thank you for all the advice! I’ll see if I can find that book on silvopasture at the library. Sheep could also be good to think about, especially as a fiber person.  I’m just remembering them giving me the evil eye as I walk past and “baaa”ing before running to the far corner of the pasture. I’ve also heard they are more prone to disease though.

Josh—same! And they are all garter snakes. I see at least two or three every day, sometimes a half dozen. They seem to be all over this year.

I am hoping to maximize fungal life and biomass anyway, and manure could benefit that goal. I notice in forests where deer are prevalent, mushrooms seem to flourish better.

So my understanding of sheep and goats, thinking out loud:

Goats tend to be friendly and like exploring whereas sheep…appear to be xenophobic and neophobic.
Both goats and sheep may break out and eat trees, vegetables, and anything else edible, with goats tending towards browsing, and sheep towards grazing.
Goats are less disease prone, sheep more. (My shepherd friend has had some nightmare sheep epidemics.) I am sort of an herbalist.
Some goats have usable fiber. On the other hand, most sheep have usable fiber.

AND sheep are a very very traditional Vermont animal.

When we had our homestead years ago.  I got 5 or 6 goats.

I thought they were so cute though I think a friend got me started about the time Boer goats were getting started.  Boer goats were so pretty and so expensive.

Goats did not agree with dear hubby so I sold them all.

We live in sheep/goat country now and I still hear hubby saying he doesn't understand why people keep goats ...

That is good to know. What was it between them—just a mutual dislike or disharmony?

I’m thinking that I will hang around goats and sheep more often to familiarize myself, and look through the library for books.

Your empathic ruminations on psychic bonding with goats has me curious. For what it's worth, I think you won't go straight to Hades.  After all, didn't Saint Francis of Assissi communicate love to all creatures,  not just a select few?

Oddly enough,  i happily spent  a summer kayak trip around Zanzibar, an African island once part of an Oman kingdom, where goats and dogs were taboo.  Very strictly enforced, as those two were considered evil.  Resulting in sleepless nights as hundreds of cats fought over their ever dwindling territory....

Maieshe Ljin wrote:I
...
So my understanding of sheep and goats, thinking out loud:

Goats tend to be friendly and like exploring whereas sheep…appear to be xenophobic and neophobic.
Both goats and sheep may break out and eat trees, vegetables, and anything else edible, with goats tending towards browsing, and sheep towards grazing.
Goats are less disease prone, sheep more. (My shepherd friend has had some nightmare sheep epidemics.) I am sort of an herbalist.
Some goats have usable fiber. On the other hand, most sheep have usable fiber.
...

Hi Maieshe,
I was looking for grassmowers in animal shape, and first landed kunekune pigs (ERROR, they turned the whole pasture into a ploughed potatofield without the taters, but friendly and great like dogs, but in pig form).
Then Ouessant sheep, because they are 1. small 2.robust = not prone to disease and 3. eat grass, right?
Wrong. Well, they DO eat grass, but I might just as well have gotten goats, because they ALSO eat the bark of my fruit trees, the leaves of any tree they can reach and ... basically anything from the plant kingdom, it seems. They've grazed my fenced-off potatofield (jumped over the fence) and dug up the potatoes with their tiny hooves. Clever things.
They do have nice fleece. And they are super curious and friendly. An ewe that was born here last year actually loves cuddles and scratching behind her ears.
Now I'm inspired to do research on milk sheep...Maybe I could add 1 milk sheep to my flock of 3 Ouessant ewes in the future? (and borrow a Ouessant ram)
Future=over 1 year or more.
Let us know what you decide on!

There are a couple of ways to keep goats on half an acre:

The first is to have a small pen, and you bring food to your goats. This means less fencing material needed, but more work for you.

You can plant things that goats eat around the edges of the pen to help with some of the food. One of Bill Mollison's designs also had fenced hedges of tagasaste within the goat pen, so that goats can nibble the outer leaves without eating the whole plant to the ground.

The second is to rotate them around. You may still need to have a small strawyard to put them in sometimes if you need to rest land longer than expected.

They can be compatible with forests, if the stocking density is low enough. Rotating can be important to make sure that plants get a rest.

Goats need tight, fairly high fencing. If you're not doing deep litter, and it's on flat ground, you might be able to get away with 4 feet high (as long as it's tight), 5 feet high is better though.

They are lovely animals. Not to everyone's taste, but if you already love goats then it's probably right for you.

Here's my goat book on the Permies digital market: https://permies.com/t/111481/Backyard-Dairy-Goats-ebook

I will start by saying that I am no expert but I would love to share my experience thus far.
I currently have 3 goats. Two dairy does and a buck.
The management that has been working for us for the last year is rotational grazing them around our pasture/forest mix. I use the premier one electric chicken netting with just a solar charger. At night they are put into a small shed with two stalls.
This process is somewhat laborious since we move the paddock almost every day but they do not escape. I think the reason why this has been so successful is because of the frequent moves.
We also take walks with the goats to parts of the property that are not easily fenced. They follow pretty well but we definitely take steps to protect fruit trees and elderberry during these outings.
I have three different breeds of goats and they all get with the program. I have the stanchion in the stall and am currently milking one of my does every evening. It’s something I look forward.

Goat or sheep, keep part of the diet the same year round. Mostly that means always access to hay, no matter how much grass and such you have. Grass changes nutrion almost daily based on sun, rain, temperature and daylength. Hay stabilizes that and prevents a lot of tummy upsets leading to diseases that require a vet and/or vaccines. Add a mineral lick or some such for what the land is deficient in and you have a pretty good baseline diet to work with. Pellets are like candy and while they have a use in a well balanced diet they are often grain based and a herbivore is not a granivore, i.e. grain should not be a staple in a herbivores diet. Works as a energy and such top up for high preformance things like making milk, but not as a main component of the diet.

Now with how the rewilding is bringing predators (without enough wildlife to feed it!) closer to human areas, stabling livestock up over night is part of good husbandry. Also livestock goes better on routine and stabling over night makes that way easier when you need to do the once a month or so things like trimming hooves, vet checks and so on. Milking to is often a X months a year thing (and you may want to seperate kids/lambs over night).

M Ljin wrote:That is good to know. What was it between them—just a mutual dislike or disharmony?

I’m thinking that I will hang around goats and sheep more often to familiarize myself, and look through the library for books.

Sorry I didn't reply earlier.  We had some die so hubby saw dollar signs ...