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"you are violating my rights to free speech"

 
steward
Posts: 32866
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
hugelkultur trees chicken wofati bee woodworking
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This has come up about a dozen times for permies.com. It is usually brought up when somebody posts something outside of my publishing standards.

I need to point out that if I delete everything a person posts to permies.com, that is NOT a violation of free speech. From your computer you can still yell out "I like pie!" and you can go to the laundromat and yell it. And to the grocery store. And a public street corner.

What we have here at permies.com is "freedom of the press". And freedom of the press belongs to those that own one. I own this one. And I choose to publish only those things that fit within my publishing standards.

So, this is censorship. But it is not a violation of free speech.

 
paul wheaton
steward
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Jocelyn pointed out this xkcd comic:

 
pollinator
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I understand that civics is not taught in schools much these days. That might explain why you have to point this out to people.
 
Posts: 641
Location: Missoula Mt
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I really don't think people have a lot to complain about If they want a proverbial soap box to stand on they could spend 30 mins online and setup a free blog themselves!
 
steward
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Location: Currently in Lake Stevens, WA. Home in Spokane
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Through the years, I have sent several "Letters to the editor".
Some got published, but the majority never got published.

Were my 'rights' restricted? No.
I got to say what I wanted to say.
The editor got to publish what he wanted to publish.

 
Posts: 108
Location: Northern Ireland
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Yep, it's weird - almost as if the effort you (Paul) put into this site places a moral imperative on YOU to allow any troll jackass to say whatever the heck they want. Heck, while you're at it, you really should let them come and harangue you at your dinner table - not to do so would be violating their free speech. I had a small post deleted from this site a while back; I think what I said was said in humility and with honesty, but I recognise some people might not have liked the content, so a steward removed it. That is OK - I respect that decision on Permies, and wow - I can go over to my OWN blog (Answersingenes.blogspot.com if you're interested) and say whatever the heck I want! Free speech wins!

Paul, keep doing what you're doing. I'll not always agree (and such is the nature of us having our own brains), but this is a fantastic site full of fantastic info, and you've done an outstanding job. Can't wait to hear what the warm days of spring tempt out of the awakening Missoula earth.
 
Posts: 320
Location: NC (northern piedmont)
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A wise man once told me to never argue with people who buy their ink (electrons ) in 55 gal. drums........I don't understand why so many don't understand "Paul's house = Paul's rules"
 
pollinator
Posts: 1703
Location: Western Washington
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John Elliott wrote:I understand that civics is not taught in schools much these days. That might explain why you have to point this out to people.



I went to public school my entire life and there was never so much as a quarter long lesson on civics. I took every history and social science course my school offered including the Advanced Placement ones. No civics. Kinda suspect in my opinion.

Anyhow I don't mean to tank the topic.

I heartily suggest that everyone who feels their free speech is being repressed on this forum go assemble in public to exercise their free speech and espouse their thoughts on permaculture in a truly public setting where their rights shall remain inviolate. I can't remember the last time I saw anyone other than myself standing on the corner talking to anyone who would listen about permaculture.
 
Posts: 33
Location: Cambodia
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Absolutely. I owned online forums for many years, having liquidated my last one only a few months ago.

This issue came up far too often than it should have, simply because people do not read the rules & guidelines, and terms of service and privacy policies for that matter, prior to joining a site.

Some members of online forums, tend to believe they have the right to post whatever they wish, without concerns of having their content being modified, edited, altered, censored, or deleted. Those members are wrong.

An online forum is a privately held entity. The owner of that forum has every right to set guidelines, rules, terms of service, and a privacy policy suitable for his or her site. This certainly applies to this forum.

We, the members and guests of this forum, in turn, have the option to post within those parameters set above, or we have the choice to leave the site. Period.

So, we either play in Paul's sandbox according to how he runs it, or we can take our toys and go home.

==========================

Still learning your site, Paul. A slightly different forum software than I am accustomed to using.
 
Posts: 174
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i like this

 
master steward & author
Posts: 21005
Location: Left Coast Canada
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Just a note, if your post is removed from this site, it is not breaking free speech.  You are free to express your opinions elsewhere.  

Also note, of the people who have complained about free speech infringements this week, ALL had their posts removed for not meeting publishing standards, and all but one had it removed for not being nice.  None of them had their posts removed due to the content of what they were saying - but for not nice-ness or posting in the wrong location.

Please check out this link to learn more about how permies works and our publishing standards: https://permies.com/t/17422/tnk/permies-publishing-standards
 
Posts: 71
Location: Southside of Virginia
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Exactly !!!
You know, one of the first concepts drilled into the public school population is "rules" ....in kindergarten. Just sayin'...
 
r ranson
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Here is an interesting news story about free speech in the USA, what it really means, and how it applies differently to a private forum like YouTube Vs a public forum.

BBC News - YouTube 'not a public forum' with guaranteed free speech
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-51658341
 
r ranson
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ray Bunbury wrote:i like this



It's my favourite too.

 
Posts: 35
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Christian bakers don't have to bake wedding cakes for gay couples despite their first amendment objections. He has religious rights. Paul has property rights. Seems reasonable.

Fun fact: the first amendment only prohibits the federal government to discriminate on religious grounds, not the states. The fourteenth amendment is therefore unconstitutional.
 
r ranson
master steward & author
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American Free Speach is a fascinating topic.  The more I learn about it, the more I am amazed by how little freedom of exrpession it protects.
gift
 
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