Ah, for the love of Kidney Stones!!

I am having a visit from an old friend today.  We are well acquainted, know each other intimately.  We know just how vulnerable a person can be and then we have long, productive conversations where we talk about old times and catch up.

Of course all of this is a metaphor for passing a kidney stone.

But you don’t have to tell me that you are sorry for my pain—no no!  I believe that we should not hide from our pain—we should charge it.  Embrace the pain that you have had and overcome.  Relish it!  Reminisce on its nuances, its textures, its flavors.  Don’t hide from it—it no longer owns you.  You own it.  It adds character.  And it gives me stories to tell in the future.

But in the meantime, it helps to vent.


Thanks,

Eric

Ahhhh, my friend, I've felt the pain a few times in my life too.  It has been many years since the last one. I do hope it was indeed the last one!!!

You can understand why kidney strikes are taught in some hand to hand combat classes.

I do hope this will "pass" very soon for you.

Heddwch

Deane,

Yes, those who have had kidney stones understand just how painful pain can be.  When I had my first one, I had no idea what was happening or how bad pain could be.  

True story:  I was just out of college and living with my old college dorm roommate.  He knew something was wrong and approached me where I demanded that my roommate take me to the hospital.  Being in the middle of the night, I was wearing a pair of old cutoff sweatpants—and absolutely nothing else!  When we got to the hospital parking lot, we couldn’t figure out how to get to the entrance—it’s a bizarre parking lot layout.  I saw the ER ambulance bay, got out of the car and walked into the ER through the ambulance bay.  It was Friday night in a college town and I was a 22 year old recent grad walking around in nothing but cutoff sweatpants.  I knew that I looked like a good candidate for a drunk and/or drug seeker.  But I was in so much pain that I was far beyond rational thought.  As I walked I explained “OH GOD, IT HURTS, SOMEBODY HELP ME!!!”

To my surprise and partial relief, ER docs had me on a gurney before I could fully enter the hospital, stuck a needle in my arm and gave me morphine—which strangely made the pain worse.  I couldn’t feel the rest of my body EXCEPT for the kidney stone which hadn’t been touched a bit—in fact, the pain was almost focused.

During the delirium and nausea from the morphine and the most intense pain I had ever experienced by far my mind drifted back and forth from random thought to random thought.  I had recently taken a class on WWII which was influential on me.  One thought that drifted into and then out of my mind was that I would not have wished this pain on Hitler.  And I couldn’t believe that thought even occurred to me but I was in so much intense, exquisite pain that I literally could not wish this pain on anyone who ever lived—even that person.  That’s just how much pain I was in.  And I wish it on nobody—no matter what.

So yeah Deane, we know just how horrible a kidney stone can be.  I am thankful for painkillers.



Eric

Ahhh, I am truly earning an epic story right now!!

I thought I had things under control but during my prep period (4th hour), my old friend stopped in unexpectedly.  And of course it was with a bang.

I managed to get a bare-bones lesson plan for the rest of the day.  I am at home trying to decide if I should go to the ER. I really don’t want to do so again!  But wow does this one earn epic-story-status!!



Eric

oh Eric, again?? i'm so sorry. i don't know if it's better to know what you're in for (you know it eventually passes) or worse (you know how bad it's going to be).
For a while there I had them regularly, and it was horrible. I don't think it is an exaggeration to say I lived in fear for a while there in anticipation of every twinge.

The bright side is... the dentist is cake in comparison (I used to be that person who was afraid of the dentist). In fact, most things are cake in comparison.

I had one largish (1.4cm) one that never made its way out after my last crisis about 8 years ago. I took some citric acid meds that caused a stomach ulcer that was even worse than the kidney stone, so abandoned that pretty quickly. In doing the imaging for that, I was told that it wasn't harming me, but probably wouldn't budge unless I had some sort of intervention-- too big, in a place where they don't usually flush out on their own.
Every time I did some sort of imaging it would always be there waving hi at me (and the tech would be like "do you know about this?"). I keep an eye on my kidney function, which has always been fine, so I decided not to worry about it until it became a problem.

Last week I had a full abdominal echo (routine "getting old" type exam) and apparently it decided to seek greener pastures, because it wasn't there any more. Go figure!

Edited to add: want a story? it happened to a friend of mine ON AN INTERNATIONAL FLIGHT. Talk about a nightmare!

Tereza, My kidneys are like the master craftsman of kidney stones.

At the rate I am going, I will be at something like 40 stones since my first one back when I was a mere 22.  If only I knew what I was in for.  

After that first one, like you, I did sort of live in fear of them for a while—anything that remotely felt like that twisting back pain made me concerned.  I want to say that the sensation you and I felt was not a phobia as a phobia is an *IRRATIONAL* fear.  There is nothing,NOTHING irrational about feeling fear for kidney stones after one has experienced it.  That fear is completely rational!!

Looks like I have 3 stones at present, but we should get better information soon.  I just got a CT and the results should be in soon.



Eric

Hey Eric;
I have never had one, but Liz has had several.
One New Year's Eve, we were at the ER, and she was in horrible pain.
The doctor gave her a shot of "Toradol," and her relief was almost immediate.
A non-narcotic medication.

Thomas,

Toradol is flat-out amazing for pain.  When I teach the biological basis for psychology and I talk about pain and painkillers, I refer to toradol as being something like an injectable ibuprofen that works almost as well as morphine.  Toradol is actually an NSAID which puts it in the same category as aspirin, naproxen, ibuprofen and a few others.  But to get the really great effect, it has to be taken IV.  IM—in the muscle is still pretty good, but my personal experience is that oral Toradol is no different than ibuprofen.

There were hopes that Toradol would be as effective as morphine.  It’s pretty close.  I would say that for any pain below a seven on the 1-10 scale, Toradol works just as well as morphine.  But above that level, Toradol just can’t do much for that super-severe pain.  My personal experience is that pain above 7 has to be controlled by morphine or similar.

Also, that pain scale is logarithmic.  A pain of 8 is at least ten times as bad as a score of 7.  Few people have experienced pain of 9.  Pain of 9 is otherworldly.  There is no reason why any person should ever feel a pain of 9.   And really, how did the experience of this much pain in any way confer an advantage and therefore increase likelihood of passing on DNA.  And before anyone goes there, no one has ever died from pain.  Pain is completely non-lethal.

And the pain level of 10 almost defies description.  I have experienced it twice.  I was not capable of experiencing rational thought or behave under my own control.  I just don’t know how to describe or explain the alternative universe of pain that is level 10.  Level 10 pain can and probably will make you do things you otherwise would never think about.  You act just so differently.  Nothing makes sense.  Thankfully, on one of those occasions I had doctors who were quick to act on remedying my pain.  The other will never be my doctor again.


Eric

Totally understanding the pain and associated discussion here and have dealt with more bouts than I care to.  My herbalist (amateur) sister put me onto this remedy some years ago and it appears to work for me.  It can actually be taken at the time of onset for relief and may be something you wish to try.   Just adding for information's sake as I'm in no position to be prescribing medical advice.  Good luck, Eric, as I have past experience with that degree and quality of pain!  Photo below clipped from an online add at Walmart.

The hits keep coming!

Got the CT results back from last week.  It shows that I have kidney stones.  I already knew that.

Had to go home early today from yet another kidney stone attack.  It started right at the beginning of school, but I taught through periods 1&2.  3rd hour is sorta a study hall and 4th is my prep hour.  The pain really picked up in 4th hour which is when I got a sub and left.


Feeling better at the moment--because of really heavy duty drugs (meds).  Sent a message to urology.  I guess we will see where this will go.



Eric

In ER—AGAIN!!

Had to leave in the middle of school AGAIN!!

Sitting and waiting a DR.


Oh, ouch, this had better make a good story in the future.

well Eric, good stories or not, this is an awful way to spend your week!

I hope there's a kidney stone 'buster' in  your future!

and that the doc can alleviate some of the pain.

If my postulate that bad times make for good stories then today should be the stuff of legend.

Back from the ER(‘s). That’s right, plural.  In fact I ended up leaving from one ER to go straight to a second.  No in-between time.  No going home and then going back.

As already stated, left to go to the ER. I got checked in and registered.  Given the erratic nature of the pain, it can go from almost nothing to overwhelming in under a second.  When asked at registration about my pain, I stated the truth—that at that moment it was a 2, but it would be back full-force in moments.  The intake nurse seemed to understand & take note.  On the upper end I would rate my pain level at 7-8.  I have made my own pain scale and a pain level of 8 indicates extreme pain and losing the ability to think & express thoughts coherently.  On the way back from imaging, the sonography mentioned to another person how the ER was not at all busy.

After I got called back, I could tell that I was being taken to imaging for a scrotal ultrasound.  I have had many of these and they all say exactly the same thing—absolutely nothing.  But because much of this pain is scrotal, having someone press press there when I already have a pain of 8 is uncomfortable beyond words.  I asked if I could be treated for pain before the procedure, explained that I have been down this road before and was told “No.”. I was not terribly surprised but disappointed and more than a little apprehensive about the procedure which was long and painful (the tech did a very good job, but it is inherently painful on a good day).

When I got to a room, I eventually got seen by a Dr.  He asked and I gave him the background, which is complex, and I was not very clear—I was in a pain level that made me incoherent.  The Dr. actually talked more than I did, got his own idea and left.  Some 20 minutes later I had to stick my head outside the room and flag someone down—I was not quite screaming in pain, but obviously uncomfortable, borderline irrational.

Shortly thereafter a nurse arrived with two medications—a fairly mid-level narcotic pain killer along with a shot of Toradol (think injectable ibuprofen). Toradol is very good, serious pain medication, but it has its limitations.  After getting the injection, another nurse was along with discharge papers.  They wanted me out.  They never even gave me a diagnosis. They didn’t order any tests beyond the sonogram.  I tried to explain that this wasn’t going to work and I was told that I should go follow up with my primary provider (on a Friday afternoon?) and go home to “figure it out!”

I was basically shown the door.  I walked out to my car—in as much pain as ever—at which point I just didn’t know what to do.  Eventually I called 911–I couldn’t think what else to do.  They sent an ambulance (to the hospital parking lot!) and told me I could ride to the ER (about 200’ away) but I would be charged and get another bill.

By now I really don’t know what to do.  So I walked up to the hospital main entrance.  I had no other idea—my pain level was a solid 8 by now.  The receptionist asked if he could help me and I tried to explain my situation.  I couldn’t really explain the full details over the pain-overwhelmed brain of mine.  He called security!  About the only good part that happened here was that my wife called during the time I was explaining to the receptionist.  I answered but just kept the phone on speaker.  She overheard most.  The security guard told me to walk back to the ER and not cause a disturbance at the main entrance.  So I walked down, eventually greeted by the same nurse who helped show me the door in the first place and indicated that I was not welcome there.

Thank God my wife stayed on the line and overheard.  She told me to go back to the car, our daughter would come and take me to the ER by her office (5 minutes away) where she had already called ahead.  Once I got there I was immediately taken to a room, was seen by a Dr (WONDERFUL lady—she had known my wife since my wife was in med school).  She listened to my background and symptoms, examined me, looked at my back and especially my lower hips.  Short version—I have SI joint problems—pretty severe actually.  This was causing all of my pain and problems.  She talked with me about which meds to continue, change, start new, etc.  She actually diagnosed and prescribed a fix!  What a wonderful, if head spinning change from the ER visit of an hour earlier.  I actually have hope now.


I am looking at making some formal complaints at hospital #1.


Thanks for the long, long vent.



Eric

Before I left I ER bed, I took a picture of the poster detailed below.  I found this poster ironic given circumstances.

But Eric, "pain management" can range from ameliorating that pain to inflicting a greater degree of pain.  Sounds like that particular entity may have leaned more towards the latter?....  

If there can be a 'Hotel California', why not a 'Hospital California'?.... ;-?

Eric, have you ever been screened for ankylosing spondylitis? SI pain and kidney stones are both associated with this. I have mild AS, and other family members have kidney stones and gout.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6790921/

If it's the usual calcium oxalate stones, watch out for high-oxalate plant foods like spinach and consider whether your stomach is producing adequate hydrochloric acid. Parasite infections wreck HCl production, for example. Supplementing Betaine HCl for a while can help; if it gives you very acidic runs your HCl was adequate. Sally K. Norton's book and videos are the quickest intro to the subject. "Super Gut" by Dr. William Davis doesn't directly address the issue but is a good read regardless.

John, MK, Brian,

RE: Kidney stones.  My wife monitors my kidney stones & diet relentlessly.  I mean that in the best possible way.  We have gone down those roads and many more in an attempt to prevent my kidneys from making more stones.  But as my wife likes to say, despite all attempts, some people have kidneys that just like to make stones.  Lucky me.  And I mean lucky in an unironic sense.  The worse the experience, the better the story later on.  I have a great one developing right now!


RE: SI Joint.  I did really get my SI Joint outa whack about 2-3 years ago when moving a reclining couch.  I felt something in my back shirt—painfully so, but I just kept carrying and lifting as though nothing had happened.  I was walking hunch backed for the next several days before I could get into physical therapy.  PT was not an instantaneous fix.  It took time.  The single most therapeutic day was also the worst.  The PT therapist that day had me lay down on what was essentially a massage couch—had a hole up top for my face.  He then found that I had a more-or-less constant muscle cramp that manifested in what looked like a rope just under my skin.  He then went in and used his thumbs to forcibly pull the “rope” apart.  OUCH!  The skin itself was getting stretched—OUCH!  And the muscle initially fought back.  But when he was done (10 minutes?), the major back ache was gone and I could walk upright!

I have also seen a D.O. Who does osteopathic manipulation and that is almost like an instant fix!!  I am working on getting another appointment with him soon,


Thanks for the info,  the second ER Dr, I saw was wonderful and I am on the mend—for the moment.



Eric