12V Portable LiFePO4 unheated battery recommendations?

Hello all,

I am looking to replace some 12v deep cycle batteries that I haul back and forth mostly for pumping water. I bring them home and recharge them after each use.

I was looking at the 100AH unheated 12v LiFePO4 drop in replacements like this one...
https://battlebornbatteries.com/product/12v-lifepo4-deep-cycle-battery/

and this one...
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F2HPR6JG?th=1

I know Battle Born are supposed to be good. I can buy 5 of the other one with similar specs for the price of one Battle Born. I haven't looked around too much yet. There seem to be lots of other brands on Amazon with similar specs and price.

To throw in one more wrench, I wouldn't mind having a replaceable BMS and making a battery to avoid just the brain from turning the rest into a brick.

Does anyone out there have any recommendations for a durable off the shelf battery that they have used that would stand up to being moved around alot or where to look to build a very simple one.

Thank you!

Have you considered buying components and putting a battery together yourself and saving some money? Then you save money and know your parts and how to fix / replace them.

larry kidd wrote:Have you considered buying components and putting a battery together yourself and saving some money? Then you save money and know your parts and how to fix / replace them.

I sure have. So far I've not found a way to save money doing that compared to the off the shelf Amazon prices at least. I'm open to suggestions on where to source cells and parts though. I've watch a youtube video or two. I very much like the idea of being able to replace a failed BMS on otherwise good cells.

EVE cells from the 18650 battery store or whoever has the current best price. Quality cells versus unknown cells from whoever.

Never forget for just a few dollars you can add your own heat and thermostat in to your battery build. Since my battery bank is fixed in place I simply used heat tape for water pipes that come with a built in thermostat on at 35f off at 50f.

larry kidd wrote:EVE cells from the 18650 battery store or whoever has the current best price. Quality cells versus unknown cells from whoever.

Thanks for the recommendation. I wouldn't have known that EVE cells were any good.

It seems like a big project for what I'm looking for and this seems like it might be all I need and hard to beat in price. With a 5 year warranty it might be worth taking a risk. Assuming I'll be able to get ahold of the company if anything were to go wrong. It's cheaper than a deep cell AGM or lead acid.

Super Empower 12V 100AH LiFePO4

Les Frijo wrote:

larry kidd wrote:EVE cells from the 18650 battery store or whoever has the current best price. Quality cells versus unknown cells from whoever.

Thanks for the recommendation. I wouldn't have known that EVE cells were any good.

It seems like a big project for what I'm looking for and this seems like it might be all I need and hard to beat in price. With a 5 year warranty it might be worth taking a risk. Assuming I'll be able to get ahold of the company if anything were to go wrong. It's cheaper than a deep cell AGM or lead acid.

Super Empower 12V 100AH LiFePO4

Hope you have better luck than I have IF warranties are needed! I didn't think much about warranties until I called a couple of them in and found out they weren't worth the paper they were printed on!!! Since then I'd rather handle things myself.

This is kind of build it yourself.
Has everything you need, just put it together.

https://yixiangpower.com/collections/12v-battery-box

A place to get familiar with what's currently being used.
https://diysolarforum.com/

I wouldn't get battleborn.

Even though the OP here posted about unheated LiFePO4 batteries, I'm hoping a related question on heating might be answered here.  Is it possible when using a heated LiFePO4 battery to program the battery management system (BMS) to maintain the battery temperature above some minimum even when it is not going through a charging cycle?  My impression is that when the charging system is called upon to initiate a charge when batteries are cold, the BMS will prevent initial charging.....first initiating a heating period to bring the batteries up to an acceptable temperature for charging....and then beginning the charging run.  My question pertains to a 48V parallel-connected battery array that would be semi-permanently plugged into grid-powered charging unit that would sense when the batteries were getting below a certain threshold before initiating a charge.  But I'm not clear on whether such a battery array, in an unheated building, could be maintained above a certain temperature simply by virtue of being charger-connected....and in some way using that fact to keep the internal battery heating circuit active to maintain the batteries near the minimum charging temperature.  The point being, having that battery array never dip down for any length of time to a temperature (~ -30F to -50F) potentially damaging to the battery.  Would it be better just to heat the whole enclosure/shed that the batteries were being kept in? Thanks!

Unheated lipo4 batteries might not be doable.
I don't think they can be charged when it's below 32F.
It's dangerous.
I think discharging them at cold temperatures might be stopped by the BMS. battery management.
I know my phone won't work when it's cold enough.

It would be nice to have a circuit that when the charger comes on it heats the batteries to a safe level then begins charging.
Not sure if this is available.

We have 3x 10 kWh EG4 self heated batteries.
They work but it is, so far, tough to figure out the power consumption of the self heating.
I think/fear it just keeps the batteries above a setpoint whether charging is imminent or not, which was an issue during a prolonged cold/dark stretch last year.

'BattPack' sells all in one portable units for low temperature.

Look at Will Prowse's page on youtube for teardowns of cheap LiFePo4 batteries.

Dumfume is a VERY cheap (<10 cents a wh on Amazon) LiFePo4 brand with really decent capacity and build quality. No heaters, but with low temp protection.

Douglas Campbell wrote:We have 3x 10 kWh EG4 self heated batteries.
They work but it is, so far, tough to figure out the power consumption of the self heating.
I think/fear it just keeps the batteries above a setpoint whether charging is imminent or not, which was an issue during a prolonged cold/dark stretch last year.

'BattPack' sells all in one portable units for low temperature.

Thanks for responses to my query.  

The concept I'm thinking of is derived from the fact that (a) I'm a cheapskate, (b) we have a transfer switch at the grid-provided power pole in the yard, (c) wife is hesitant to have a large stack of batteries in the basement of the house when said battery chemistry has even a minor reputation for catching fire, (d) we are both in our senior years and may have limitations on system maintenance, and (e) the garage best suited for batteries is unheated.  Although lately mid-winter temperature has not gone lower than -30F, it is prudent in the region to plan for nights near -40F as this has occurred in the past 30 years of our living here.  I'm looking into placing a hybrid inverter (48VDC) near the power pole and be enclosed within a shed that would house both inverter and batteries.  Initially, the system would run power from the grid into the batteries for back-up and keep them topped-up for times when being on battery power makes more sense (outages, other reasons...).  Solar panels will be added to the system over time, providing prioritized charging power for the batteries.  So if the self-heating circuit is not too demanding, I would be fine....for now....with grid power providing that juice for heating, *provided* that they will be maintained above a threshold temperature at all times so that the battery is not damaged.  Your statement, Douglas C., that "I think/fear it just keeps the batteries above a setpoint whether charging is imminent or not..." is exactly what I was wondering.  In my scenario, keeping the batteries heated and 'safe' is the priority over the fact that they will indirectly be using grid power and hence adding to the electrical bill.  With a properly insulated shed or battery center, however, this draw from grid power may be pretty minimal....?   With the shed positioned near the power pole, I was envisioning simply using the same cable that I now use between gas/diesel generators to feed into the transfer switch  So I will need to determine if the outlet (AC) leads from the hybrid inverter can be wired into a proper receptacle for that cable.  An addition issue, perhaps trivial, is that the generator and cable combination currently provide both 120V and 220V power to that transfer switch....this combo allows low level 120VAC to the house plus enough power for the 220VAC well-pump.  Thanks again!.....additional comments/criticisms welcomed.

A completely different option is an EV with vehicle to load option.

John: If connected to the grid the EG4 battery self heat would be a minimal draw.

As a side note, Battleborn batteries have been popping up with some really shoddy manufacturing that they're passing off as a "safety feature." Would not recommend them.

Douglas Campbell wrote:A completely different option is an EV with vehicle to load option.

John: If connected to the grid the EG4 battery self heat would be a minimal draw.

Thanks for additional comments....and yes, I've enjoyed and gotten good information from many of Will Prowse's videos on LiFePO4 batteries.

Douglas C., the EG4 batteries look interesting and I'd not really delved into the 'Powerwall'-style of batteries at this point.  But with the configuration in mind, I think that could work well for our needs and I will keep researching that angle.  Also, I had not really considered vehicle-to-load option as we don't have an automobile EV per se......but we do have an electric Polaris Ranger for farm chores (48VDC X ~300 Ah).  Just now it's still running on the stock configuration of 8 X 12V lead acid batteries, but the hope with the declining price in LiFePO4 or other advanced battery tech is to replace these old batteries soon.  I had rigged up those batteries to be charged by solar and so already have that battery pack feeding into a plug receptable into which I plug a solar PV/MPPT controller combo for that purpose.  Seems like this circuit could be used to at least feed 48VDC into a hybrid inverter as well for low-level house power.

As always, lot's of good and helpful info running through these threads....much thanks!