Anyone Interested in Bringing Permaculture Design Thinking Into the Lives of Young Children (0-12)?

I just wanted to reach out. I'm trying to connect with others who are interested in infusing permaculture ethics and design thinking into learning for young children.

I am a stay-at-home mom who homeschools two young kids, in addition to a permaculture enthusiast and practitioner on my own homestead. Prior to my current place in life, I was a teacher having working with preschool through upper elementary children in public and private schools in the US, as well as overseas. Over the last few years being home with my children, I have come to realize that permaculture design methodology and ethics are critical foundational components to how my children learn, not just what they learn.

For me, the empowerment of what permaculture really does for young children on an individual, family, and community level isn't about teaching them how to do permaculture in the landscape (like designing a PDC for kids or something), but rather inspiring children's natural curiosities and passions and integrating learning and life using the ethical design methodology of permaculture thinking. It is about helping children approach learning in any area and life in general from a playful, solutions-based approach.

I decided about 6 months ago to just start talking about these ideas and to reach out to others who have or are working with young children. As a result, there are now many voices and I'm facilitating and learning with a community of like-minded "educators," which includes parents, teachers, mentors, community organizations, and, notably, the children. This diverse group of educators have stepped forward to take responsibility together to design an educational framework, grounded in permaculture ethics, principles, and methodology. We have started to come together to form a collaborative community and we share, collaborate, and empower one another by returning our surplus of knowledge, ideas, and experiences.

By the way, I say framework because this effort isn't a curriculum. Much of the time, a curriculum is put together for kids, but not for your kid. A curriculum written by someone else fits the people, place, and time of the developer, but this may not a fit for you, your child, your place, or your time. It is sort of like taking a great technique like an herb spiral and including it in every design everywhere. Just as the limits of design in a landscape are based on the creative limits of the designer, so to are the limits of educational design. There is and should be thousands upon thousands of ways to educate young children designed by thousands of "educators." Each voice is valuable and has something to share that we can learn from and incorporate into our own educational design for our children. I try to help the adult educators learn how to use patterned, systems thinking methodology to design an educational plan with their children/students rather than for their children. It is a completely different mindset than that found in traditional education, alternative education, most homeschooling, and even unschooling methodology because it requires people to think of young children as beings with intrinsic worth and to elongate the edges of learning and life. Yet, this framework and approach to education design can be applied to all of those and countless other ways of educating.

Ultimately, what this community does is help each other as educators to learn how to help our children self-empower through the patterned, systems thinking of permaculture. All of a sudden, the light bulb goes on as learning in all subject area becomes integrated into passions and projects initiated by our children. Our children may grow to share a passion with permaculture in the landscape or they may not. They may take permaculture thinking into what would seem to be an unrelated field and transform thinking and lives as a result. In either case, a child can live a life aligned with the ethics and methodology of permaculture and can become more than an individual who can see to his or her own needs, but rather an individual who takes responsibility and becomes self-empowered and self-realized. It is that person (child or adult) who is then in a place where they can not only care for themselves, but others and the Earth.

I should have probably reached out to this community a long time ago, but I have found my way here now and I would just like to ask, "Who else is interested in bringing permaculture design thinking into the lives of young children (approx ages 0-12)?"

In addition to adding to this thread, please don't hesitate to email me directly at jen@permiekids.com.

First, welcome to the forum and thank you for the thoughtful posting.

Second, I have indeed thought about it. I am homeschooling my own two children and have a degree in Early Childhood Education that affords me a lot of insights. I would say the two styles most in keeping with the permaculture design methods are the ever familiar Montessori schooling and the far less well known style of Coyote teaching. The latter is a Native American method where you don't tend to answer a child's questions directly, but instead offer them some way of observing the answer for themselves in a way that keeps their interest and fuels more learning than a strait forward answer would do. I tend to think that it favors a lot of learning, but doesn't do so well with an 'on paper' style curriculum, since a lot of the learning method is about using the child's own curiosity and random circumstance to fuel the learning. As to the former, many of the aspects, especially the multi-age group nature and ability to revisit activities draw a lot of parallels to the permaculture methods.

I think what you are describing here is more like the education we had 100 years ago in this country. The majority of children learned their lessons on the family farm and/or in a 1 room school. It was a real education in the sense that once you had learned a lesson, that knowledge stayed with you for your entire life.

In modern curriculum based education, 'learning' is based on memorizing data from a printed page. Hopefully, you will retain that knowledge at least until the final exam. The brain is so crammed with facts and figures, that no one piece of data holds special merit.

Solution based thinking, coupled with function stacking, and ethical behaviors create a more functional knowledge base than rote based systems. The rote based system has a beginning point and an end (the answer), but it is often missing the important details of 'the middle' - how you got from the question to the answer. I had a teacher in Jr. High who used to always say "He who knows how, will find work. He who knows why, will boss the jerk."

For example, with a common hand pump, you know that each time you pump the handle, a shaft goes down and then up, and each time it comes up, the leather washer pushes a quart of water into the bucket. If you pump it a bunch of times, and no water comes out, the rote based student will quickly decide that the pump is broken: that's the answer - end of story. The solution based student will think "Hmm, the shaft is going up & down. There must be something wrong with the leather washer, (or we're out of water)." He will then want to open up the pump to inspect the washer. To him, the end of the story doesn't come until the pump is fixed, and the bucket is full of water.

Hello Jen, great that you are thinking of our young generation. Im definitely interested in helping. I, too worked as teacher overseas
I was teaching high school students, permaculture in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Just returned from working in the jungles ofBorneo and Malaysia
Yes, it's a great idea to reach out to our future leaders. I have studied with the greatest teachers in a permaculture and I'd love to get together
with you to do our part in helping the very young. Jane. janef2001@yahoo.com

Jen Mendez wrote: Much of the time, a curriculum is put together for kids, but not for your kid.

Indeed! That's why curriculum has to be built into choice-based, guidings rather than dictations. I'm working on a workbook that is universal for landscape design, but you are definitely right about Design Thinking. Project Based Learning in K-12 education is currently trying to spread the idea that our students need Design Thinking. I think they're really just looking for Permaculture Design Thinking (ethical design science).

For 0-12 aged homeschool students, I would focus on experiences that involve permaculture applications, ethical thinking & returning surplus to the earth and people in need. Building gardens for senior citizens, growing food for homeless shelters, realistic ethical dilemmas, etc. I think the Action-Based element of Permaculture is essential because they are at that age where they express themselves in action and where words are more an action than content. Creating something sticks much deeper than filling out a worksheet.

Jane: Can you share some lesson plans? I'd love to see what you were doing with high school kids! We have no high school programs for permaculture in the US. I'm currently writing a curriculum to that effect. Did you just use Bill Mollison's manual? I'm totally fascinated!! You're awesome!!

MP

John Polk wrote:

For example, with a common hand pump, you know that each time you pump the handle, a shaft goes down and then up, and each time it comes up, the leather washer pushes a quart of water into the bucket. If you pump it a bunch of times, and no water comes out, the rote based student will quickly decide that the pump is broken: that's the answer - end of story. The solution based student will think "Hmm, the shaft is going up & down. There must be something wrong with the leather washer, (or we're out of water)." He will then want to open up the pump to inspect the washer. To him, the end of the story doesn't come until the pump is fixed, and the bucket is full of water.

Creating problems for kids to fix in collaborative groups sounds amazing!! Camps often have collaborative problem solving that is kinesthetic & spatial-thinking oriented. I really think the future is in students learning how to work together to solve problems especially pragmatic ones that take reasoning, logic, science & ethics.

I am blown away by the response.

I think, based on feedback on the thread, folks might be interested in the upcoming Edge Alliance. Essentially, an Edge Alliance is the term we have been using to describe our collaboration via Google Hangout to help one another work through essential questions that we have as educators and learners. The next one is Sunday, July 13th from 12:15-1:00 pm (US EST) and we will be talking about:

- What is systems thinking and how does it relate to permaculture as an ethical design science?
- How does this relate to education? (re: concepts, subjects, skills, and the individual development process)
- How can we use systems thinking in how we plan and document what children are learning?

If you want to join in and collaborate on this or other educational topics in the future, you can find out more at http://www.permiekids.com/community-collaboration

Great Website Jen!! I think this lesson plan shop is great:
http://www.permiekids.com/store/

I think it sounds great (can't see how it's different from unschooling though?)

To me the best "curriculum", is living my values - being the change I want to see in the world. The choice - to stay at home with my kids - is limiting growth and consumption (by us having less money) and people care all in one The kids live a life close to nature, in a family that will (eventually) live off the fat (comming - hopefully) of the land. Respecting it, honoring it, that is what they will grow up with - that is what they learn. I don't think we need a curriculum, but any inspiration is very very welcome.

Dawn Hoff wrote: I don't think we need a curriculum, but any inspiration is very very welcome.

I don't think Permaculture would exist without curriculum or a textbook. Unschooling is the opposite of organized curriculum, but if you only do unschooling, how can you expect a child to learn collaboration, negotiation, & galaxies of other skills. I use unschooling at times in discovery learning contexts, but how can unschooling help with skills-based learning? I think what 21st education is actually heading towards is Apprenticeships, Mentorships & Entrepreneurships... or that is what we are pushing for. (The other side is everyone is "homeschooled" or warehoused using government computers doing worksheets all day being watched through the computer camera by non-teachers assigned to monitor while a real teacher overseas 1000's of students via their statistical readouts.) I am both a homeschool parent and public education teacher. I think unschooling has a place, but I don't think experiential immersion is the only way to teach Permaculture. I think the fact that adults need classes, textbooks and videos implies that maybe children might too. That's what I'm working on and hoping that there are others in need of k-12 curriculum that leads to design thinking, but if you don't need it, you don't need it!

Mmmm - no permaculture as is would not exist without a formalized curriculum - but I think that the reason we need permaculture is because we have become removed from natural learning as it is seen in many cultures (or were seen) outside "the religions of the book" (ie Christianity, Judaism and Islam).

That is why I unschool - because I regard children as natural learners. And if I live life with them, and I live by the permaculture ethics, that is what they will learn. They will see me care for people, care for the earth an limit growth and consomption - and if their attachment is strong enough, I will be the person whom they will most want to imitate.

How did children learn to steward the land before the invention of schools?

It is not a critique of the thought of a permaculture curriculum. I just wanted to share my thoughts on how kids learn. My son know more about permaculture today than I did 2 years ago.

Agreed on all points, but I'd say that "teaching" is as old as humanity and it was never strictly implicit. It's just parents & community leaders were the teachers then, and the content of the lesson was the curriculum. Regardless if improvised in delivery, it came from generations of learning. Often lessons and histories were wrapped up in ceremony (games or sometimes more brutal like songs to painful tattooing sessions), but they all fulfill a "curriculum", a body of information organized to be transmitted. I just do not think every child works exactly the same. I have been teaching 150+ kids each year in public school while teaching my own children and teachers on the side. The #1 thing I've learned is that it is vital to provide and guide but impossible to guess with complete accuracy their intrinsic motivations; only they can figure that out. As parents and teachers we can recognize and help nurture it early on if students have a voice & a choice, but that can be a rarity in public education.

And that is where I think people misunderstand unschooling. Just because it does not contain a curriculum (unless the child asks for it himself), it does entail teaching (if that is how the child learns best), and instruction (but only voluntary). So it is like a dance - sometimes with the child leading, sometimes the parent - but always listening with intent, to find the
key to that child's learning pattern and whishes.

Totally. As I said, we use unschooling too, but not all the time. I use it in areas that he is already interested. I think methods are useful but adhering to just one is limiting. I have a masters in best practices for k-12 education; it's basically the psychology behind how children, teens & adults learn. We love unschooling for certain things, but after my education & experiences, I just can't say unschooling is for everyone. That's why I think we need a curriculum, so that's why I'm working on it. All the ideas and feedback here are superb. I appreciate the time and effort everyone is putting into their posts.

If we are all trying hard, we will find ourselves with a generation of Permies before we know it!

To me unschooling is an all or nothing thing - if I choose to promote a certain subject above others, Iight send a message I'm not intending to send - "this is too hard for you to learn without instruction", "I don't trust you to learn this" - or "math (eg) is more important than ..." I trust that if it is important they will learn, and if they don't learn then maybe it wasn't important after all (and if they find that it is important later, they will be able to learn). Since we eat, sleep, live permaculture in our family, they cannot not learn - even if they aren't interested (and if they aren't, I trust that what they are interested in is just as valid and important).

In my experience: Not all children can learn that way. Implicit instruction only takes with some kids in some subjects. It's not 100%. I've had the luxury of having no directives as a teacher: I literally can write my lessons from scratch anyway I like IF I can defend it. I don't teach to the test, I don't assign homework & I provide a huge spread of choice & student-centered, focused work, but I push children outside their comfort zones so they can explore their greater potential.

That's not saying anything is wrong with unschooling. I do think that changing teaching styles teaches children how to deal with a variety of people & styles of thinking. Even though the children I teach been "through the system" and I'm largely rehabilitating them educationally, I think that for all homeschoolers unschooling might not be a perfect fit. People are extremely varied in what they like especially if you take them as they are and not raise them from scratch. That's just my experience as both a homeschool parent/teacher and a public school teacher.

I love your thinking in all your posts!! I'm going to show them to my wife since she's primarily the teacher during the day most of the year. Thank you!

Well I do dissagree - but respectfully so

I think children are born learners - but they may not learn that which we as parents think they should learn, or at the time we think they should. I personally think unschooling is a good fit for all children, but not for all parents. It is a giant leap of faith, one that requires intensive de-schooling (I have been at it myself for 7 years and I loose faith sometimes, but pick it up the next minute most of the time).

The biggest problem for most people is that kids will not necessarily learn what we think they should, especially not when they should. Regardless of how free your employers are - I doubt they would accept a 10 yo who did not read? Yet that is the kind if faith you will need to unschool - and in doing so, you might have kids who aren't reading one day, and the next they are reading Shakespeare (that happened to my friend's son only a couple of months ago). I truly believe that humans are learning creatures, and social creatures - and the combination of the two makes for excellent permaculture material - if loved and nurtured thoroughly

Dawn Hoff wrote:I think it sounds great (can't see how it's different from unschooling though?)

To me the best "curriculum", is living my values - being the change I want to see in the world. The choice - to stay at home with my kids - is limiting growth and consumption (by us having less money) and people care all in one The kids live a life close to nature, in a family that will (eventually) live off the fat (comming - hopefully) of the land. Respecting it, honoring it, that is what they will grow up with - that is what they learn. I don't think we need a curriculum, but any inspiration is very very welcome.

First, I couldn't agree more about not needing yet another curriculum. However, what I think people (adult educators and children) would appreciate, and then feel empowered to try alternative forms of education, is a guiding framework that gives people the design methodology that they can then take and share with their children to then map out their own learning plan. This, for me, is what the PDC is for people wanting to design permaculture landscapes. I posit that it would be helpful to have (and am working to design) this sort of framework and training available to be able to design a truly personalized, holistic educational plan. Along the way, this framework could also share some techniques and tools that can be applied once someone (may start with the adult educator, but ultimately this should be the child) understands how to design from a pattered, systems thinking approach. Again, this is similar to the idea of a PDC instructor talking about techniques like swales, hugelkultur, herb spirals, etc. None of those things are the same as permaculture design, but they are techniques or tools that, depending on the place, time, and purpose of the land may be useful to the designer. So, I think this is what makes what I and folks involved in the PERMIE KIDs' community are doing different than unschooling.

There are, like in many things, a wide spectrum of what "unschooling" means to people. Unschooling is about honoring the learner, but, as some interpret and "do" unschooling, if we just leave children alone in their own thoughts then they aren't optimizing the edges that exist (or could potentially be created). Sure, this is a great benefit to children identifying and following their passions, but how do they learn the process to do this? Some is by modeling, but most children benefit from a framework that empowers them to go through the process and determine what elements are included in the framework. It isn't about telling children what, where, when, why, or even how to learn. It is about taking a framework that for most of us adult learners is automatic and making that thought process visible and accessible for children to use, tweak, deconstruct, re-construct, revise, share, reflect, and probably revise again.

Many parents that I have talked to want to allow freedom to the child, but they don't know how to ask questions and help a child create their own learning map, so much of what is done is disjointed and sporatic, often swinging between extremes because the parent is either forced to (by state requirements) or is coerced (societal expectations and norms) into ensuring their child isn't falling behind. There is also a great number of parents who would like to explore something that is more guided by the child, but they either feel like they don't know how or can't get started, what to expect, how to facilitate learning optimizing the edges, coach their child through not only learning of things but understanding themselves as learners, how to document to satisfy legal requirements, and how to help themselves and their children see the connections between self-discovery and traditional learning objectives (which is important so that a parent can communicate with the educational system they still have to report to in some manner how documenting that a child ran around outside is representative of "learning" in the way the system defines it). A framework and a collaborative community gives people the support to start their own journey in learning and life.

I think I get it - and to me it does sound very unschooly (I don't believe in leaving the kids to their own devices - I believe that unschooling is a partnership between parent and child).

I gathered as much from you other posts, Dawn. It seems like you take what I would call a permaculture-approach to unschooling, not just by the activities you do on the homestead, but in how you approach learning and educating in general.

LOL - I've never seen it that way actually To me Unschooling is the natural progression from attacent parenting, which for me is the natural way to bring up infants, so yes maybe - I've always tried to see the need behind the behavior etc. which is a lot like say "the problem is the solution", working with the kids to create win-win situations is like saying "everything gardens" and trying to find stuff that they would find interesting and that they can learn from is working on the edges

what an interesting thread! we are unschoolers here and we have some workbooks and curriculums around the house but they are in the book cases so that if someone is interested in it they can go pull it out of the book case and look at it. not a scheduled part of the day and those books are for everyone. I have my algebra and biology text books because I like them and my son has some books he wanted too and my husband has a book case full of books about computer science and programing. just like we have books on permaculture. I think we would never purchase a curriculum on permaculture but would be interested in children's books about permaculture. My kids learn about permaculture all the time because me and their father practice it all the time. we spend large amounts of time outside in nature and observing nature. what a fun thread!

That makes a lot of sende to me. We have children's encyclopedias about animals and about the earth because my son loves animals and have started asking a lot of physics and geology questions, just like we have atlases (normal and children's versions), etc etc. a really cool perma book would be great! My mom gave my son a gardening book called "grow it and eat it" (in Danish), but it did not catch his interest - he is not into gardening, but would be interested in the more science based knowledge that such a book would deliver. My daughter would love stuff about anal husbandry and gardening, plus cooking etc would really rock her boat. They are very different, but permaculture is a very large field of study and it applies to almost everything we do in our lives

I like your take, Dawn and Meryt. I think you would both be interested in and great contributors to the next video collaboration that a bunch of us are doing this Sunday. We will be talking about:

- What is systems thinking and how does it relate to permaculture as an ethical design science?
- How does this relate to education? (re: concepts, subjects, skills, and the individual development process)
- How can we use systems thinking in how we help children navigate their learning landscape and document what children are learning?

There are only a few spots left for this week's Edge Alliance (Google Hangout's call, not mine), but I try to set up one a week on various subjects. Check out http://www.permiekids.com/community-collaboration for more information about this or upcoming Edge Alliances.

Thank you for the invitation - we only have internet sparingly out here on weekends, as we have to run a generator to get one (right now my husband is installing a new chimeney on the compost toilet), so I will pass untill we get solar panels

Former inner-city schol teacher of 17 years and currently a SAHM and homeschool teacher to a four year old--very interested. Will keep in touch and try to follow the thread and activities as time allows during this busy summer!

Jenny in MN

I am very busy this weekend but thank you

This is a seriously awesome thread and an awesome forum. I really hope it starts to get enough traffic to start being at the top of the google search for "permaculture education" because I searched just that into google earlier today and did not get very many good results AT ALL. So I came here because I am an active member of permies and found all these amazing discussions. I just want other people to know they are out here! These conversations are happening, and I feel like even if people go to the mighty goog to check it out, there aren't many good resources..

Let's Inspire Our Young Designers to Test the "Limits" of Creativity!

Calling anyone and everyone who would like to inspire children in your life – yours, your students, other children in your community – to take part in the 2014 Cardboard Challenge.

Let children design and build anything they want with cardboard or any recyclable materials. Fun and creativity is the name of the game! Maybe it's actually a game, like Caine, a nine-year-old boy who was inspired to do when he designed an entire cardboard arcade business. Perhaps it's an artistic, biodegradable spin on a composting herb spiral. Or, it might be as simple as a life-size composting scarecrow. The only limit is the creativity of the designer!

Learn more and join in the fun at http://www.permiekids.com/cardboard-challenge/

Why Take the Cardboard Challenge?

The Cardboard Challenge stems from the inspiring story of Caine's Archade (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faIFNkdq96U). Now it is an annual GLOBAL event presented by Imagination Foundation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ul9c-4dX4Hk). In September, kids of all ages all over the world are invited to design and build anything they can dream up using cardboard, recycled materials, and imagination. Then, on Saturday, October 11th communities are brought together the share and perhaps play one another's designs. Well, what if we not only did so with our local communities, but also our international, online permaculture community?

This is a wonderful opportunity for children to play, learn, and use simple materials (resources) in new and creative ways to design and build what they can imagine. Children will be able to:

Pursue their passions
Engage in critical thinking
Collaborate with others (potential inter-generational community building)
Practice planning, building, deconstructing, revising, and ultimately resilient behavior to adapt and overcome challenges
Innovate and test the limits of design
Unite communities... and we, the PERMIE KIDs community, can show our children we support such creativity

As the father of a three year old who is just starting to get really distracted by video games, this is an important subject for me. My goal is to build as many permaculture and growing themed games as possible myself so he can play those and learn while he's playing.