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Edibles for hotter, dry, shady conditions?

Ac Baker

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posted 1 month ago

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So, our 'forest garden' has suffered a significant loss. As we get hotter, drier summers in England, the shady spot the previous gardener chose to plant purple gooseberry plants is no longer suitable. Most of them have died due to drought (it's a well-drained area), and successive heatwaves, when we've just not had to the water or the time to keep them watered.

Are there any edibles which people are growing successfully in these hotter conditions in England & similar climates (spells of 30-40C daytime, 20+C night time now)? Perennials a definite plus!

The site is heavily shaded from the West & South-West, and starts to lose the sun after c. 2pm. Plus there are six dwarf fruit trees (apple, plum & pear) which will be drawing up the moisture to a fair degree.

Many thanks!

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Joao Winckler

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Sounds like a classic issue with forest garden plantings as the canopy matures and the microclimate shifts. Gooseberries really do hate drought, mine suffered similarly last summer. For hot dry shade I've had decent results with wild garlic and good king henry, both tolerate the conditions once established and come back year after year without much intervention. Turkish rocket is another one worth trying, seems genuinely unbothered by heat and dry spells. Rhubarb might be worth a go too if you can get water to it for the first year.

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Anne Miller

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Here in Texas hostas work well in those conditions.

Invasive plants are Earth's way of insisting we notice her medicines. Stephen Herrod Buhner
Everyone learns what works by learning what doesn't work. Stephen Herrod Buhner

Oliver Huynh

pollinator

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Location: Belgium, alkaline clay on the Escaut river. USDA 8b, 14" rain/y.

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Hello,
Amelanchier ovalis, blackcaps raspberries and feral apricots and peach trees are coming strong here, under similar conditions.
I will have to replace my apple trees too, some were grilled in may. 'Granny Smith' is still alive but will not bear anything.
Have a nice evening,
Oliver

From under the mother plum tree.

Eric Hanson

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Here is a thought: Sweet potatoes. Sweet potatoes grow extremely well in sandy, especially poor soil. They excel at drought and laugh at heat. And here is the amazing bonus: every part of the sweet potato is edible. The aggressively vines can be trimmed a bit and the leaves used as a salad.

Just a thought.

Eric

Some places need to be wild

Oliver Huynh

pollinator

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Location: Belgium, alkaline clay on the Escaut river. USDA 8b, 14" rain/y.

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posted 3 weeks ago

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Anne Miller wrote:Here in Texas hostas work well in those conditions.

Unfortunately we also have lots of slugs around here.
Succulents and hostas do not survive long.

Have a nice evening,
Oliver

IMG_20260721_210529.jpg

From under the mother plum tree.

Anne Miller

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I have never had a problem with slugs though I have been told that vinegar and/or soapy water will kill them. Also heard salt kills them.

Invasive plants are Earth's way of insisting we notice her medicines. Stephen Herrod Buhner
Everyone learns what works by learning what doesn't work. Stephen Herrod Buhner

Ac Baker

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posted 2 weeks ago

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Yes, we generally get mild, wet winters, so slug damage is a real problem until May at least.

One of my other challenges is going to be, what people want to eat.

I've been wondering about sweet potatoes, as they are more familiar as a vegetable here already than a lot of other possibilities. (But at least one family member finds sweet potatoes undesirable, even as our summers become unsuitable for their preference, which is potatoes.)

--
"Whitewashed Hope: A Message from 10+ Indigenous Leaders and Organizations"
https://www.culturalsurvival.org/news/whitewashed-hope-message-10-indigenous-leaders-and-organizations

Jane Mulberry

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posted 1 week ago

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In my Bulgarian garden, I've been surprised this year to find a patch of solanum nigrum fruiting prolifically under my walnut tree, where it gets very little sun.

I'm not sure if it's self-seeded, as there was a single plant of it on the one side of the garden when first came here almost four years ago, though I haven't seen it anywhere in the garden since. Or it might be a selected variety, Wonderberry, because I do recall buying some seed of that and it may have been in all the out of date seed packets I dumped around the place in the spring to see what would grow with complete neglect. (Note to self -- next time I do that, document what I dumped where!)

I'm not sure how they would be in full-on drought conditions, however, as though we normally have very droughty summers with no rain at all, spring and early summer were wetter than usual this year and the summer drought has only just started.

I'm only 65! That's not to old to learn to be a permie, right?

Ac Baker

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I had no idea there were any fruiting Solanum species from Europe that are considered edible.

Plants for a Future say, Solanum nigrum, "There is a lot of disagreement over whether or not the leaves or fruit of this plant are poisonous. ..

"Only the fully ripe fruits should be used, the unripe fruits contain the toxin solanine [65, 173, 183]. ..

"Very tolerant of dry conditions [206]. "

https://pfaf.org/user/Plant.aspx?LatinName=Solanum+nigrum

References: https://pfaf.org/user/cmspage.aspx?pageid=174

--
"Whitewashed Hope: A Message from 10+ Indigenous Leaders and Organizations"
https://www.culturalsurvival.org/news/whitewashed-hope-message-10-indigenous-leaders-and-organizations

Jane Mulberry

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I was wary when I first saw the plant in my garden, but research suggested it was safe. White flowers not purple, berries hanging in bunches not on their own, fully ripe berries (dull black, no green, not shiny). So I cautiously tried eating some. That was autumn 2022, when I first came to the house. I hadn't seen the plant in m garden since,so it's possible that what is growing now is from purchased Wonderberry seed, an American variety. But it looks identical to Solanum nigrum.

I think as long as the berries are completely ripe they should be safe, and cooking would make them even safer. I still wouldn't eat a huge amount at once, as I do get a slight mouth burn from the raw berries. More like a chili burn than a toxic thing. I saw mentioned on other sites that some people find the berries too spicy. I'm collecting them and storing them in the freezer till I have enough to make a sauce or jam from them.

I'm only 65! That's not to old to learn to be a permie, right?

Ac Baker

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As I read more, I have found suggestions that Solanum nigrum ripe berries may have somewhat variable levels of solanine, depending upon the plant & growing conditions. So perhaps traditionally people would learn from their community, which were the better plants & places to harvest them?

Jane Mulberry wrote: .. as I do get a slight mouth burn from the raw berries. More like a chili burn than a toxic thing. ..

One possible cause, when eating cold food that isn't spicy like chillis (no capsaicin) or horseradish (no isothiocyanate), of a "burning" in the mouth, can be a food sensitivity I think?

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"Whitewashed Hope: A Message from 10+ Indigenous Leaders and Organizations"
https://www.culturalsurvival.org/news/whitewashed-hope-message-10-indigenous-leaders-and-organizations

Jane Mulberry

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It's possibly not a suitable plant or food for everyone, especially the leaves which I believe need careful processing and should definitely be avoided on nitrate rich soils as they concentrate nitrates. Like tomato leaves, which some people say are edible, I think the leaves need to be treated with caution.

The burning mouth -- I get it with a huge range of things so it's not a reliable sign of toxicity or a sensitivity for me! Thee plant and the flowers look very like a chili pepper plant to me, so I do wonder if the ripe berries contain anything similar to capsacin. What I've read suggests that generally solanine levels drop as the berry ripens and there should only be trace levels in a fully ripe berry.

Though it possibly wasn't a good recommendation, as even it is completely safe and edible, a good reason not to plant it might be that it can be very weedy and if it likes the garden may pop up everywhere. Plus I'm discovering it's not simple to harvest. Berries in each bunch ripen at different rates and go from ripe to soft enough to disintegrate when touched in a day, so to get any harvest, the bushes need to be picked over daily to get a handful of berries. I've been storing mine in the freezer till I have enough to cook up a bottle of jam.

I'm only 65! That's not to old to learn to be a permie, right?

Nancy Reading

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I wonder whether Physalis might be a contender? I believe that likes hotter conditions and some variants are perennial.

How Permies works: https://permies.com/wiki/34193/permies-works-links-threads
My projects on Skye: The tree field, Growing and landracing, perennial polycultures, "Don't dream it - be it! "

Ac Baker

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A good thought. PFAF seems to indicate that the tastier types of Physalis are less likely to be perennial in my climate. Taste & growth testing required, I guess!

https://pfaf.org/user/Plant.aspx?LatinName=Physalis+alkekengi

--
"Whitewashed Hope: A Message from 10+ Indigenous Leaders and Organizations"
https://www.culturalsurvival.org/news/whitewashed-hope-message-10-indigenous-leaders-and-organizations

William Bronson

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While it's debatable how useful it would be, I suspect mint would do fine in a dry hot place, even without much sun.
Rosemary and oregano might do ok, if not thrive.
I'm growing Horseradish directly under a pine tree and it seems to be doing fine, but we have sooo much rain, I can't account for it being drought resistant.

Eating Bindweed
Eating Buckwheat Greens
Paul explains why I spend time here,better than I could myself.

I agree. Here's the link: http://stoves2.com