• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Carla Burke
  • Anne Miller
  • Nancy Reading
  • John F Dean
  • r ransom
  • paul wheaton
  • Timothy Norton
stewards:
  • Jay Angler
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Andrés Bernal
master gardeners:
  • Christopher Weeks
gardeners:
  • M Ljin
  • Thekla McDaniels
  • May Lotito

Raw land, a toolbox, and a very small budget. What’s your first-year order of operations?

 
Posts: 21
Location: NW Florida, Not Far From A Beach
6
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I’m planning on starting a homestead from scratch on bare land, and I’d like to hear how this community would sequence the first year. I’m not asking for a master plan, as I think I have one in place.

I’d like to know what you did, what you’d do differently, and what you wish someone had told you.

Here’s the starting point:

Raw land, no structures, no power, no well yet
A toolbox, a small budget, and a strong preference for reduce, repurpose, reuse
Most of my gear comes from flea markets and yard sales, because I’ll pay for the right tool, but I won’t pay retail for it
Decades of homesteading behind me, but a first-time buyer of raw, unadulterated lan.

My rough order is to observe the land through at least a full cycle of sun, wind, and water before I move any dirt. Then a fire pit and cooking setup, water, shelter, and the first garden beds and animal pens. I’d like to hear where this is wrong.

Some questions for the group:

Observation versus action. How long did you watch the land before you built anything, and did waiting cost you or save you?
Water first or shelter first? Does your answer change with climate?
Low-budget wins. What’s the best deal you found for a homestead tool or material that cost almost nothing?
The mistake. What’s the one thing you got wrong in year one that you could have avoided?
 
master steward
Posts: 9023
Location: southern Illinois, USA
3956
goat cat dog chicken composting toilet food preservation pig solar wood heat homestead composting
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Where is the land?   The climate is especially important.  Do you have a place to live that is near the land?   Do you have a job near the land?  Do you have savings?

In worse case situation, obtain a  storage shed that you can live in initially and use for storage or as a barn later.     12x 16 comes to mind a functional size….buy it …build it …whatever.  Of course, the answer to the above to the above questions could change this suggestion.

When I built in MN I had a well put in quickly.

You cannot have too much money.
 
Posts: 161
Location: Klamath-Siskiyou CA
35
monies trees tiny house
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Just off the top, I'd encourage a softer distinction between observing and doing. I think it's important to engage continuously in lots of little doing-watching-designing sub-routines from the get-go as part of a larger learning (and landing) process - with the important caveat that one should take much greater care and patience with *irreversible* actions and impacts. So, start small, sensible, and safe, but do start! In that vein, something I've really gained appreciation for in my own several year 'phase one' on a new project is how much infrastructure can be set up with change and modularity in mind, so as to avoid making big early irreversible commitments of space and resources. However...that approach is certainly not what most administrative officials and frameworks are geared towards, so I would highlight making careful study of applicable land use regulations, potential variances and alternatives, and which directions others around you are pushing to expand the envelope of what's not only possible but endorsed and celebrated in your community, then see about prudently advancing the cause (or at least avoiding scrutiny) as fitting.
 
Michael Tyler
Posts: 21
Location: NW Florida, Not Far From A Beach
6
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
John,

Thank you, and my apologies. I posted before my profile was up, so you were answering with very little information. Here are the answers to your questions:

A fresh start would be a deliberate choice, and I’d do it in stages.  I am planning contingencies and was wondering what others may have experienced.

I haven’t bought land yet. I’m looking at very rural counties in Southern Georgia, which is humid subtropical, with hot summers, mild winters, and plenty of rain. I already have a homestead, which is my home base and an income, so this wouldn’t be a leap.

I like the 12x16 shed idea. I’d probably start in a tent or camper and put the shed up first, as storage now and a barn later. Good point on getting a well in early. I also like your First Axiom.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.
 
Michael Tyler
Posts: 21
Location: NW Florida, Not Far From A Beach
6
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Ben,

Thanks, and my apologies for the thin post. I hadn’t put up a bio, so you were working with very little context.

You’re right to soften the line between watching and doing. I agree on starting small things from day one, like a garden bed, a compost pile, or a temporary shelter, while taking real care with anything irreversible, like clearing, grading, septic, or a well. I like building things that can be moved or repurposed, and I’ve dealt with land use rules myself, so I’d study those closely before buying anywhere.

I’m looking at southern Georgia and planning contingencies, so this is very helpful. What did you set up modularly in your phase one, and what would you do differently now?

I appreciate you taking the time to reply.
 
Posts: 145
49
gear fiber arts building
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
here is my order of projects

Camper

Outhouse

Power shed

Power

Internet

Pole Barn garage/workshop/kitchen

Water collection off the pole barn

Berm

House (move kitchen inside)

Improved toilets

Greenhouse

Garden

Convert power shed to solar dehydrator

Tools wise, I think you'll need stuff to clear land and do large wood work first: chainsaw, axe, circular saw....then internet so screwdrivers and pliers
 
master steward
Posts: 19967
Location: USDA Zone 8a
5006
dog hunting food preservation cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Water or shelter first? well, that depends...

If doing water catchment, shelter first.

If doing a well, then the water comes first.
 
John F Dean
master steward
Posts: 9023
Location: southern Illinois, USA
3956
goat cat dog chicken composting toilet food preservation pig solar wood heat homestead composting
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Michael,

When I built my first homestead in northern MN I lived out of a tent for several months.  In hindsight, I regret it.  I would have been much further ahead …and more comfortable …if I had built or bought a shed.  A small wood stove would have gone a long way to improve the comfort level.  

I have traveled around in southern Georgia.  While snow in April and May doesn’t seem like much of a threat, you could easily spend several hundred on a tent that would be better spent on materials for a shed.  I imagine you could get one together in  a couple of days.  And while a wood stove might not be needed, a small window AC could help if there is electricity.

I do agree with the others…explore the property carefully. This is even more so if you haven’t bought it yet.   You may be able to get permission to spend a night on it before you buy.  In southern GA I would certainly be curious about the reptile population.  Also be sure to check the ground for top soil depth, clay etc. If you do  have access before you buy, being a shovel and dig a hole.  That will tell you a lot.   Of course, fill it back in before you leave.

If you are looking outside the area you live in, I would check out what towns are nearby….lumber yards…hospitals…etc.  

As I have already mentioned, I had a well put in quickly.  Before you buy, check out the well depths in the area.  Drilling feet = $$.

I would also ask about flooding.  Also, I would stop at a local library and read a few issues of a local newspaper if there is one.   You can get a good deal of information on property crime, politics, weather, etc.   I had a person I knew almost buy property in New Jersey.   In a back issue of a newspaper he learned of plans to run a highway threw it that the realtor forgot to tell him about.
 
Michael Tyler
Posts: 21
Location: NW Florida, Not Far From A Beach
6
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Daniel,

To clarify my question: I was imagining what I’d do if I had to start over with nothing. It isn’t imminent for me, and if it were, I have 28 years of equipment and supplies that would come with me. That’s why my list starts with survival basics, not tools.

Mine would be:

Bell tent for shelter, with several 5-gallon water containers for personal use
Water catchment using a tarp and an IBC container
Waste management and a shower system for hygiene and trash
Protected storage area
Greenhouse, with water catchment using gutters and an IBC tote (seasonal vegetable starts for sale and personal use)
Chicken pens, for eggs to sell and eat, and for meat

Simple versions of most of these can be built in a couple of days, and some at the same time. My list comes from believing a homestead should help pay for itself, so I put income first. Plants and young chickens take time to grow, so I’d start them early.

One question on yours: I understand that a conventional outhouse is a code issue in many places. Have you checked the rules where you’d build? I’d also like to know what made you put power ahead of water collection, and how much of that is your climate.
 
Michael Tyler
Posts: 21
Location: NW Florida, Not Far From A Beach
6
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Ann,

That’s a good way to put it, and I agree it depends on the source. With catchment, you need a roof or tarp up before it can collect anything, so shelter comes first. With a well, water comes first, since drilling takes time to schedule.

Where I’m looking in southern Georgia, the soil is sandy, not rocky, and shallow wells look possible. That could move water to the front of my list and make it cheap and quick. I’d still haul water for the first few days, test any well before drinking from it, and plan the well, septic, and chicken pens together so the setbacks work out.

Have you gone through a well drilling process yourself, and how long did it take from the first call to running water?
 
Michael Tyler
Posts: 21
Location: NW Florida, Not Far From A Beach
6
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
John,

Thanks for the details. The tent-versus-shed point is well taken. A tent is a short-term answer, and the money is better spent on a shed that can become storage or a barn later. I’d build the shed first. I already have a camper, and after a long time homesteading, I’m well equipped to start again if I ever have to.  The only equipment I would have to add would be a small lumber mill.

When I wrote the original post, I was imagining starting over, kind of like being stranded on a deserted island with nothing but a toolbox. It’s a good exercise, because it strips away the equipment and forces you to think about what really comes first.


Thanks for the heads-up on checking the local newspapers.   I hadn’t considered checking back issues of the local newspaper.  That is such a simple thing I hadn't thought of, and I will add that to my move preparation list. (Just in case.)

As for the reptiles in Southern Georgia, they can’t be any worse than the ones in North Florida.
 
pollinator
Posts: 586
Location: UK
196
kids urban seed
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The first year on raw land, even a tiny test garden in the most promising-looking spot teaches you more about the site than almost anything else. Where water pools, where the soil is actually workable, which direction the wind hammers from. Hard to replicate that just by walking the land.
 
Posts: 9
1
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
One place I would be deliberate about sequencing, since you list chicken pens in your restart order, is to treat chickens as a later step, not an early one — after shelter, a reliable water routine, and dry, protected storage are actually working from day to day.

Chickens are forgiving in a lot of ways, but they are not forgiving about three things: predators at night, wet feed, and no shade or airflow in summer heat. In southern Georgia, that last one matters a lot. A small, well-ventilated coop in shade, with a run that keeps raccoons and other night predators out, will save you far more trouble than a larger pen built in a hurry. Hardware cloth on openings and a latch a raccoon cannot work open are worth prioritizing over extra space at first.

I would also keep the pen on higher ground, away from anywhere water stands after a heavy rain, and close enough to your water source that hauling water and feed stays easy when you are living in a tent or camper. Wet bedding and muddy runs are where a lot of beginner problems start.

For flock size, starting with just four to six hens keeps the daily work, feed cost, and manure manageable while you are still building everything else. It is much easier to add birds later than to care for a flock you do not yet have time or storage for. And I would not buy birds until the coop and run are finished, the feed can stay dry, and you have a routine for fresh water every day — even on days when another project runs long.

In your order, that fits naturally after protected storage and before you try to scale up to selling eggs or meat. Get the small flock steady first, learn what your land and schedule can actually support, and then decide whether more birds make sense in year two.
 
steward
Posts: 16536
Location: Pacific Wet Coast
11100
duck books chicken cooking food preservation ungarbage
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Michael Tyler wrote: When I wrote the original post, I was imagining starting over, kind of like being stranded on a deserted island with nothing but a toolbox. It’s a good exercise, because it strips away the equipment and forces you to think about what really comes first.


This is a good thought exercise for many people to do. Look at the history of weather in the area you are currently in. Has the frequency and intensity of the storms gone up?

Due to the intensity of the current El Nino weather pattern, there appears to be more and higher flooding in many areas of the south west USA. If you believe your current homestead is above any high water mark of the last 100 years, I'd check for it for the last 10,000 years! Let's just say, I'm a little worried about the Island I live on! It's had an interesting life on a geological time scale. Being older, my lifespan has good odds, but the potential changes by 2060 are worth considering before spending time, money and creativity that a bad storm could wipe out in 24 hours.

Planning for resilience is everything. I support John's comments about a shed being a priority. Personally, you suggestion that the land has to be making an income from the get-go is worrying. Again, look at history. Most of the Europeans that first farmed America were doing well to feed themselves, let alone have surplus. Chickens might seem easy, but they can be taken out by soooo... many predators, many of which are darn sneaky, that they will need serious housing and secure runs.

Many things to consider...
 
I agree. Here's the link: https://woodheat.net
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic