Things you wish you knew when you started

Greetings,

For about a year and a half now I have been planning and saving like crazy so that I can start a homestead and have little or no debt.  I'm on a good track and my partner and I feel as though we have a good start.  However, being a very conservative and cautious fellow, I wish to appeal to you forum members for some advice.

So, for you homesteaders and other folk:

1.  What do you think are some of the best things to do to prepare for a homesteading and/or self-sufficient lifestyle?
2.  For those that are currently homesteading, what do you wish you would have done to prepare?

Some general background so you know about where I am coming from:
I grew up in the country and know my way around machinery, butchering, having a garden etc.  I currently live in a city and live well below my means.  We have no debt and save a good portion of our income to add to our nest egg.  We cook like crazy, stay healthy, and work to better ourselves

Thanks!

Living below your means is the best thing you could do to prepare.  While I was living in the city, I bought a house that was much more modest than I could afford.  The result was that, by the time I was ready to move to the country, I had the mortgage paid off. 

It helped that the house was in a good area and was worth 4 times what I paid by the time I sold it.  Okay, I got lucky with real estate prices, and times have changed since then, but there are probably markets where that sort of thing is still possible.  The key was to still be debt-free after moving to the homestead.

don't buy the first piece of property you find, unless it is spectacular..there is so much out there available right now.

i wish we had bought land with running water on it like a creek, river or a lake..we have a pond but would have rather had a natural water source..

get as much acerage as you feel you'll need right off the bat..and if you can get a few buildings on the property ready made, all the better.

make sure the well is good.

make sure the drainage is good

test the soil

Brenda Groth wrote:
don't buy the first piece of property you find, unless it is spectacular..there is so much out there available right now.

i wish we had bought land with running water on it like a creek, river or a lake..we have a pond but would have rather had a natural water source..

get as much acerage as you feel you'll need right off the bat..and if you can get a few buildings on the property ready made, all the better.

make sure the well is good.

make sure the drainage is good

test the soil

Thanks for your reply, Brenda!

Do you have any tips on finding a good piece of property?  If you had all the time in the world, how would you go about your search?

Find property with no zoning, no restrictions, and great neighbors. Running water is ideal, but a cistern or catchment is better than a 30 year mortgage.

I wish I had left my ex wife the first time she cheated on me; saved all the cash I spent trying to live her kind of life and had a couple years with no responsibilities to live in my van down by the river and figure out what I want to be when I grow up.

only thing is then I wouldn't have the kids and all the stuff I want to do now would seem less important

A popular rule in permaculture is to spend a year just observing the land before you do anything. I would put it this way:

Anything you do in the first year will turn out to be in the wrong place.

For example, everything I planted in the first year either died or had to be transplanted. And only after five years did I have a good idea about where to put the cabin.

Also, don't skimp on tools. A thousand dollars is not much compared to what you're paying for the property, and it can buy a lot of good tools.

Examine the land cost versus commute distance very carefully.  We bought a cheaper piece of land with river access, but have  long commute (45 min.).  Most of the time I think we made the right decision., but that is the main thing I second guess.

Make sure you have at least 2 years of good quality food for each member of your household right off the bat when you move to your new land.  Not kidding. 

Having that peace of mind will let you focus on the infrastructure and may keep you from over-commiting in the garden the first couple of years.  It has other benefits, too, but that is for a different forum 

Make any changes to the land before you start planting.  Swales, hugelbeds, install main irrigation lines, stake out the footprints of buildings and live with it for a month.  See how it feels.

Once you get to the planting stage, plant lots of different things to form the guilds and different zones, but make sure to plant a lot of what you KNOW you and your family will eat and like.  I went for experimentation and variety initially at our old place and would have done better to focus on the 10 things that we really liked right off.

Best wishes!

I wish I had learned about permaculture.

You might go for an area that is currently suburban, but is rapidly losing its connection to the city. That way, your transition to rural life can happen in-place, and the natural succession process will make some neighboring properties very inexpensive, a few at a time. It will all look like a decline to most of your neighbors, but maybe the best of them will be the sort that stick around through it.

Buy enough land that you can qualify for some kind of ag exemption! I built my house on a lake in central texas on one acre...the taxes doubled the first year. Now $9000. Insane. So I have to work part time just to pay those, even tho I retired & paid cash for my home.

girla wrote:
.the taxes doubled the first year.

Make sure you review the tax code carefully and see that any appropriate deductions and exemptions are being applied (such as homestead exemption or exemption for elderly or disabled). 

http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinfo/proptax/exmptns.html

The amount of annual increase in taxable value for a homestead is limited to a maximum of 10% per year since the last reappraisal.

http://www.taxremedy.com/forms.htm

My wife and I are moving to Washington State (specifically the Olympic Penninsula) in a few weeks, and we're really interested in doing some sort of homesteading that uses permaculture as its foundation. We both have some growing experience, but a lot of it is at a hobbyist and theoretical level (ex - gardening in our backyard and theory via classes). Although, to be fair, I think we do a good job with the space that we have.

We'd be really grateful to hear any of your stories about things that you wish you knew when you were first starting. Also, if you have any recommendations for resources that would help a newbie that would be sorely welcome too.

For now, we're looking to keep it simple and just start with vegetables and hopefully mushrooms. Eventually, though I'd love to start raising goats and chickens.

As for our background, I have an engineering background with computers and software and some decent carpentry experience (mostly functional tables, shelving, and framing but no structures yet). I'm actually working on software right now to help farms sell directly to restaurants and other customers so that could come in handy eventually. My wife has a soil science background mostly related to composting, and she has a pretty excellent theoretical knowledge (and some practical experience) with beyond-organic growing methodologies from a series of classes that she took at a local farm in San Diego. We have about 100k saved up so we figure that should give us a good headstart, but it would amazing to hear from the people who've been there already.

For me it would be starting at the foundation aka the soil (observation/planning, earthworks/swales, carbon/woodchip, soil life/worm tea, mineral/rockdust, cover crop/80% legume)

Inputs:
$600,000 in bank loan for land and house
$100,000 in cash for support systems

I am not too sure how much house and land you can get for $600,000 in loans, put lets say 1 to 3 acres and a 6 room house (3 bedroom 'could be 2 bdrm + 1 study, etc", 1 living room, 1 kitchen, 1bathroom+laundry/mechroom)

Now how to spend the $100,000 for homesteading/permaculture stuff and what is the number value I would associate it with
Soil
1) Swales
2) Carbon/biochar/woodchip/strawbale
3) Soil Life/Mushroom Slurries/Worm Tea
4) Mineral/Rockdust/Sea90
5) Cover Crop/Dutch Clover+Herbs

Food
A) Vegetable Garden
B) Herb Garden
C) Mushroom "Garden" (Wine Cap, Oyster, etc, etc)
D) Berries
E) Fruit Tree
F) Nut (Instead of picking and eating famine/war time grass seeds, I prefer nut seed)

Animals
1) Honey Bee Hive
2) Chicken/Eggs
3) Fish Pond
4) Milk/Meat from Goat/Sheep...pasture

Outdoor Kitchen
* solar dehydrator
* rocket stove
* rocket stove-Oven
* Rocket Stove-Grill
* Haybox Slow Cooker
* Canning Station
* Solar Cooker (check out GoSun esp their new Fusion model)
* Outdoor seating/living room and such is a really nice idea you can make it look very nice

Infrastructure
* Greywater system
* Better Sewer System that filters out nitrogen and phosphates
* Solar Electric
* Water Procurement and Filter System

Greenhouse
* Hoop House
* Lean to
* 4 season
* solar pit greenhouse.

In terms of homesteading, dont get carried away with animal quantities.  12 chickens will give you ruffly 12 eggs a day for most of the year. 3 may be a better number for you when determining what you actually  need.

What ruminant you raise should be the one you are willing to eat. We taste tested sheep before we got sheep. If you think you want goats, go eat one. I cant stress enough to do this.  I'm bringing it up because you stated "homesteading". To me this is providing for yourself through the land.

Something i heard paul say resonated with me and fits with permaculture. "Feed yourself first". The value of what you raise or grow is so much better if it goes in your gut than to sell it. But it can be interpreted into other things. Like beekeeping. If you take what you need in honey for yourself, there is very little disturbance or inputs needed for your bees. Its when you decide "im gonna be rich, im gonna sell honey!" Is when things go to shit. The manipulation starts and the bees suffer. Same goes for ruminants cause money means stocking more which leads to more inputs.

Homesteading is such a beautiful thing if you keep it as that. You can eat happy eggs, happy lambchops, happy turkeys.  I hope both of you can view it in this manner. Yes its sad to take them down. But you treated them with respect and gave them that happy life. When you flip that around, understand that every chicken you eat that came from the normal channels was an unhappy chicken. Every chicken you dont buy through them is a another chicken they dont have to bring in to repeat the cycle.

Another one is getting dwarf trees, as a kid I had no problem climbing 35ft trees and sitting in it for an hour or two eating fruits. I am super happy I was able to do that as a kid, but now that I am no longer a young lad am happy that most of my trees are 9ft or so and nothing over 20ft. The few that are in the 15ft-20ft range are a pain for me. At the homestead scale I like dwarf trees, and the farmstead scale it would be more and with silvopasture, I would want to keep the branches out of the reach of the animals so 25ft to 50ft trees.

I would say, go for it, but don't go crazy. Be realistic , changing house already is a big undertaking. Settle, stay with one thing at a time. Mushrooms and vegetable gardening are a good combination, because the waste of the mushrooms can be mulched and logs can be incorporated in hugel cultures. First for yourself and family and friends. When you know all the ins and outs, scale up and set up that computer program that cuts out the middle man, why not sell veggies to restaurants too?
Buy good quality tools, get to know some nice people that do permaculture and homesteading, see if you can get them to help or work for you or with you. Because people who are practical and work with their hands every day do things much quicker and more efficient than office people and people who are university level, in general speaking. They are different worlds. But they don't have a lot to invest in many cases, so with the right people both can benefit of each other.
Keep control, pace yourself, grow naturally. Enjoy!

Hello all,

I'm still what I would consider a beginner to permaculture and homesteading (started last year after covid lockdowns first began...) so I'm looking for your 'one thing' you wish you knew when you started.

And for some extra fun (if you want), tell me your "Ahah!" moment where you realized you wanted to pursue this lifestyle.

Please consider contributing; I greatly value your opinion as a more experienced homesteader! :)

ID favorite tool to work with on yard and garden.

The importance of good neighbors.  I am not referring to permaculture practices, politics, religion, or potential friends.  Rather I mean people with a responsible live-and-let-live attitude.

I wish i knew what i don't know.

For example my new aquaponics endeavor. I didn't know that water Ph was so important to fish. I knew it was for plants.
so i had to find out about water testing. i bought a multi water tester and I have high Ph levels by what the meter is reading at the moment.
But before i make any changes i need to make sure that the unit is calibrated correctly. so i Have to get certain chemicals' of specific Ph values to do the calibration.
i know i can reduce the Ph value in the pond by adding different elements. but which ones, are some better than others, will some effect the fish adversely or the plants?

i'm also trying to use solar to heat the water. the water i'm using is untreated well water which comes out the hose in the low 50's. so to get the water temp up i'm trying to figure out the best way to warm the water.
i built a frame backed with a sheet of ply and some insulation. 100 foot black hose and a bi-wall poly carbonate sheet. but i don't know if i should paint the inside of the frame black, keep the insulation shiny ( it has a reflective covering)
leave the poly carbonate transparent, Paint it black for better heat absorption. ?
(Picture below)

the problem is experimentation cost money. so does getting it wrong.

being unemployed at the moment doesn't help as it limits resources i can throw at the problems


All fun and games and a good learning experience.

I wish I had understood that the soil is an ecosystem, not simply a planting medium. If I had understood about soil micro-organisms and how to nurture and feed them when we first got started, we would be so much further along! We pretty much started with conventional knowledge, but tried to do everything with natural inputs rather then chemicals. So, we got that right. What I didn't understand was that the focus should be on feeding the soil, not feeding the plants. I know that sounds like the same thing, but I've come to understand that it's not. That concept has changed the way we do almost everything on our homestead.

That I would need to build in vacation time away from a place that casual visitors consider a perfect vacation spot.

Sometimes I hit a phase where all I can see is the work that needs to be done, and it drags me down. After three or four days camping and walking in high mountains, I come home meditated and motivated and fresh, and can see the big picture again.

Hi Douglas

You make a great point.  While homesteading is fun, there are times when one needs a break.  Even a 24 hour escape can do wonders. I was fortunate enough to find a part-time job that allowed to to travel on my schedule.

Wish I knew how fluid my plans would need to be! I spent too long listing off all the things that needed done, only to have urgency pop up in ways I didn't expect. But it all has worked out for the best. For example, I thought we'd do a retaining wall re-build in the first year. Well a ton of other things ended up taking priority and in the meantime our retaining wall design needs changed entirely.
So loose long term goals, but do what needs done in front of you. And learn to pick at big projects a little at a time or else you'll get burned out and not want to do anything!

Hi Matt

You sound normal.   I just spent two days chasing escaped goats ( goat chasing is not a planned activity).  No matter how I tightened the fencing, they got out.  Finally, I watched in amazement as all laws of physics were suspended and one walked through a solid fence.   I walked to the spot and could not see a problem.  Then I touched the fence and it separated.  It seems, when I was installing the fence, I had butted two ends together and forgot to fasten them.  Amazingly, the two ends did not curl and stayed touching.  Even more amazing, it took two years for the goats to discover this.

John F Dean wrote:Hi Matt

You sound normal.   I just spent two days chasing escaped goats ( goat chasing is not a planned activity).  No matter how I tightened the fencing, they got out.  Finally, I watched in amazement as all laws of physics were suspended and one walked through a solid fence.   I walked to the spot and could not see a problem.  Then I touched the fence and it separated.  It seems, when I was installing the fence, I had butted two ends together and forgot to fasten them.  Amazingly, the two ends did not curl and stayed touching.  Even more amazing, it took two years for the goats to discover this.

That is definitely a happenstance I would laugh at myself over!

Lesson learned: always double check your work. An important lesson I’ll need to keep in mind as we build our house here shortly... how much harm can a missing screw do anyway? Lol

I really hope this one doesn't apply to you, but...

I wish I had known how frequently my father would sabotage me while pretending to help.

Thank you for all the great replies!

John, thank you for mentioning the part on neighbors. For the most part I have confidence we'll be alright, but only time will tell. I'm most excited to get to know the neighbor who already has cows, chickens, and bees.

Thanks for the heads up Phil, on the topic of not knowing what you don't know. I'm a big researcher so really my biggest fear will be over researching and never implementing anything... so maybe jumping in without all the knowledge can be an asset in some cases.

Leigh, do you have one good resource I could turn to on how to feed my soil ecosytem? I already have an intellectual understanding of this but don't know how to carry it out in practice...I'm guessing my soil needs some help since my onions seem to be taking eons to grow... or is that normal for onions?

I found your comment on building in vacation time enlightening. Our parcel we purchased is in a tourist area so I could easily see myself falling into the trap of never getting away. Especially considering I'm not a big vacationer anyway. But how do you leave a homestead with livestock that needs care while you're gone?!

Matt, lesson learned from you is to make plans to begin with! Hah, I'm terrible at plan making. I know you're discussing fluidity in plans here but you've actually inspired me to write down a timeline for my plans for fear of procrastinating too long on it... our first big plan is to build our house and with the inflation of building materials right now we really ought to get it done ASAP before we're priced out of our own home. I'll have to adopt the idea of fluidity for my plans of what I want to do to the land, which may be good since I'm not sure what's the most important project to start with on that one.

Elllendra, sorry to hear about your parental sabotage... I've felt that kind of sabotage from friends but I can only imagine how it feels coming from a parent. I'll definitely keep your experience in mind, though. We purchased the land as a joint effort with my parents so I'm sure there will be plenty of opportunities for us to sabotage each other... yuck. Thus far everything has been very collaborative, I'll be making a greater effort to keep it that way since you brought this to my attention!

Again, thank you all for your replies! They're all very insightful.

Hey Rebecca, Im also new to permaculture, like yourself I started out just after covid struck. I'm sure there are actually many of us who put the pieces of the puzzle together right around the same time, in fact. I don't have anything of worth to add, just wanted to say hi, and let you know that there are likely quite a few of us starting out on this journey right now. In fact, I think I'll post a topic, pointing back to this one... :)

Hi Rebecca,

The answer to homestead sitting can come in several approaches.  My first choice is responsible children from a nearby homestead/ farm.  Be sure to get the parents permission and pay well.  
I am assuming a morning check on food and water.  

My second choice is the local FFA or 4H to identify someone.

I have learned to trust responsible children more than I trust adults.  Twice I have had adults fail without damage.....because I got a bad feeling and cut my trip short.  I have never had a young teen fail me. Oh the adults?  The first one showed up but left because she was afraid of my cat.   The second one, after promising me he would check daily , never showed ....but he was thinking about it.  In both cases I had left ample amounts of water and food just in case.

Rebecca Blake wrote:Leigh, do you have one good resource I could turn to on how to feed my soil ecosytem? I already have an intellectual understanding of this but don't know how to carry it out in practice...

Yes! A Soil Owner's Manual by Jon Stika. That link will take you to the book's Permies page. It's the book that put all the puzzle pieces together for me. I could finally see the big picture, plus it gave me a plan to work toward better soil. It's an excellent book and you won't be disappointed!

Tonya Hunte wrote:Hey Rebecca, Im also new to permaculture, like yourself I started out just after covid struck. I'm sure there are actually many of us who put the pieces of the puzzle together right around the same time, in fact. I don't have anything of worth to add, just wanted to say hi, and let you know that there are likely quite a few of us starting out on this journey right now. In fact, I think I'll post a topic, pointing back to this one... :)

Tonya, nice to meet you! Food flying off the shelves in a split second sure has a way of making one rethink how they live, doesn’t it?

John F Dean wrote:Hi Rebecca,

The answer to homestead sitting can come in several approaches.  My first choice is responsible children from a nearby homestead/ farm.  Be sure to get the parents permission and pay well.  
I am assuming a morning check on food and water.  

My second choice is the local FFA or 4H to identify someone.

I have learned to trust responsible children more than I trust adults.  Twice I have had adults fail without damage.....because I got a bad feeling and cut my trip short.  I have never had a young teen fail me. Oh the adults?  The first one showed up but left because she was afraid of my cat.   The second one, after promising me he would check daily , never showed ....but he was thinking about it.  In both cases I had left ample amounts of water and food just in case.

And most people think teenagers are irresponsible and good for nothing. Hmm...
Perhaps a part of it is their youth and they haven’t quite gotten a big head of ‘I’m too good for that kind of work’. And they may just want money and they don’t care where it comes from!

Thanks for the heads up. My church has a few other homesteading families so I’ll have to keep their kiddos in mind for when the day comes!

Leigh Tate wrote:
Yes! A Soil Owner's Manual by Jon Stika. That link will take you to the book's Permies page. It's the book that put all the puzzle pieces together for me. I could finally see the big picture, plus it gave me a plan to work toward better soil. It's an excellent book and you won't be disappointed!

Awesome! Thank you thank you!

I was just perusing RedHawk’s soil thread and it made me realize I really suck at making compost and may need to pick up my game. I thought compost was easy and self explanatory but apparently I need help lol

**GROW YOUR HOMESTEAD SLOWLY.**

Don't overload yourself with so many projects that you burn out. Do NOT convince yourself that you're going to buy property, build a yurt to live in, get chickens, get ducks, get milking goats, plant a garden, plant fruit trees, install water catchment, etc etc etc all in the first year or two. Even if you already have badass food growing skills, don't plan on growing/raising/canning/storing more than about half your calories in the first year or two.