Please keep all discussion, questions, and comments about moderation in the Tinkering forum

Talking about hot button issues outside of the cider press was part of what triggered today's drama.  https://permies.com/t/31128/tnk/category-Cider-Press

The thread in question is under review and may or may not reappear in a few days.

This week I got to hang out with one of my friend's kids.  About 10 years old and we started chatting about the really important things in life at that age.  Why parents are such pains in asses.  And this lead to tips on how to get what you want.

I like the Socratic method for this sort of thing (where you ask questions and let the other come to the conclusion) because it helps the kid feel listened to.  And it was wonderful to see where the kid went with this.  

One of the biggest things is that the parents have a system in place.  They have experience and sure what they do doesn't always make sense, but it's their system.  So by showing that we can work with that system, and that we listen to the gr'ups, they become more likely to listen to us.  

That little bit of give and take - just that tiny step to show that we are willing to work with the parents instead of fighting against them, is an incredibly powerful tool for the kid to get what they want.


Today I saw something.  Someone who knows the permies system well and instead of starting a thread in the tinkering forum (which they have done for this sort of thing in the past), they decided to try to manipulate one volunteer staff member to do their bidding by using back channels.  Not cool buddy!

Working against the system and bitching about the people who VOLUNTEER (aka, not paid money or anything) their time to keep this site up and running... that's not a great way to win our love and get us to see your point of view.  

Right now there are about a dozen PMs in my inbox I haven't - and probably won't - read about moderation decisions.  Half the time I step in and make the moderation note having little actual interaction with the moderation decisions so that the other staff don't have to deal with the flood of PMs that come from these.  I've got things to do in my life too.   So if you really want to talk about moderation, you're far more likely to get a response by posting in the tinkering with this site forum.  

TLDR: The staff far more willing to listen to concerns and take the time to work with the user if the user first shows us they are willing to work with our system.  Aka, start a thread in this, the tinkering with this site forum.  

This site is HUGE!

Consequently, not everyone reads every single word published in a day.

If you want to ask a question about permies, or moderation, or the digital market, or SKIP or... well, asking questions in the bottom of a random thread in the cooking forum or about shoemaking (to name a couple that came up this week) is not going to do the trick.  At best, it will be ignored, at worse, the post will vanish and the person you wanted to contact won't ever see it.

But asking here, in the Tinkering With This Site forum is a great way to get the question to the right person.

And besides, asking one person runs the risk of asking the wrong person.  I have several questions people have sent me the last few days that I have absolutely nothing to do with.  I can't help them.  I don't have anything to do with those aspects of permaculture or Paul's Empire.   I told them to ask here.  

Hopefully, this thread gives some insight into why.  

several posts vanished today for this reason.  

A few things came up this week.

Staff locked a thread because it was having trouble meeting publishing standards or would be better placed in the Cider Press.  

Creating a new thread on the same topic (outside the cider press) makes things worse.  Not better.  It's not a topic that fits well with this site.  

this new thread will very likely vanish.



If a topic is in the cider press, there's a reason.  Don't start a new topic to reply to it.  That new thread will likely vanish.  

If you want to post to the cider press earn apples and get pie.  Simple.  

The volunteers have busy lives and even though they help out here, not all of them have time to read or answer PMs.  It's not fair to put that burden on them.

If you want an answer,  ask in the Tinkering forum.  Whoever is online that day can choose if they have time to help.

Nicole Alderman wrote:I think a big benefit to keeping moderation discussions in Tinkering, is so that when people go to read a thread about something, they read about that something, rather than pages of people talking about moderation..

Because Time has no meaning here! discussing which forum a thread should be in, in that thread, is not something we prefer.

Thanks Nancy, that clarifies 2 PMs I got a little bit. I'll try to edit my posts to comply with it.

In case a thread is a duplicate or would benefit an ongoing thread, where could one propose to merge the threads?

In the case of threads that probably would do better in another forum, is it ok to just add them to that other forum? (additional)

Benjamin Dinkel wrote:In case a thread is a duplicate or would benefit an ongoing thread, where could one propose to merge the threads?

You can start a post in the tinkering forum. This is a particularly good option if you think it bears discussion. You could also just 'report' a post with a note like "This comment would be better in this thread: https://permies.com/t/1234567" (or indicate the whole threads should be merged if that's what you mean).

In the case of threads that probably would do better in another forum, is it ok to just add them to that other forum? (additional)

If you've been given the ability to add forums, you've been trusted to make that decision. If you're not sure, you can 'report' a post in the thread with something like "It seems like this should be added to <whatever forum> but I wanted to run it by staff instead of just doing it myself." And again, if it's something you want to talk about rather than just get done, you can start a thread in tinkering about it.

A lot of what we do with merging, splitting, and leaving threads be is based on seo and the overall goals of the site.  And about 20 other reasons i don't have time to go into, some of them confidential.

Seo is useful with this as it's based on a "real human likes" metric of the average internet user.  As we are one of a few forums google still likes, we are doing pretty good.

Aka, with over 200 active volunteer staff, we see most of what goes on and usually have considered this already.

What does more harm is off topic banter about the running of this site in the wrong place.  It at best disrupts the resources for future humans and makes google hate that topic on permies.

At worst, people read it as "hello, you are too stupid or lazy to put post in the right place" and they go silent.  It may not be written that way, but it is often read that way.

Thank you Christopher and R for the further explanation.
I’ll keep it in mind and do my best in the future.

I like the idea if you see something that might be merged, start a new thread in the tinkering forum about it. With links and stuff.

That way the volunteer with some spare time can see and evaluate it.  See if it would look good merged.

Just a reminder that if you want to talk about the Permies moderation practices, it belongs in here: https://permies.com/f/11/tnk