Restless Leg Syndrome

I also find deep breathing & water helps I have also been taking Vit D, Iron, Magnesium, Zinc and Vit E

having been touting the benefits of Magnesium  I recently becae aware of a / the vital connection between Magnesium & Vit D - which apparently affects ability of Magnesium to help cells absorb Calcium & other Minerals

Apparently our Red Cells need Iron to transport Oxygen to our body cells
Each Eron molecule has capacity for 8 Oxygen molecules
Vit E ensures that the Iron molecules are full of Oxygen
Magnesium i think helps all cells absorb minerals  including Calcium

Calcium ions work to tighten muscles while the Magnesium ions relax muscles

Calcium unabsorbed may travel round body and get deposited in unwelcome places?
Meanwhile the vit d  helps the magnesium absorb better  and zinc is in there too
While recent studies finds that vit d is connected to maximum oxygen absorbtion

Eric Hanson wrote:Does anyone know of any foods, herbs, etc. ANYTHING that can help restless leg syndrome?

As it stands I do have a prescription to help RLS, but it is only so-so and is intended to use at night.  On occasion I have used it during the day with mixed results (it does not make me tired).  I can get up and move around, but immediately upon sitting down my legs want to absolutely crawl.  Right now my legs have a borderline awful crawling feeling in them bad enough that it is hard to concentrate.

I have found that compression garments do provide some measure of relief and have found a couple of brands of compression pants that provide considerable compression on my legs without being tight, especially in the waist.  I wear them commonly in under regular pants and typically they do provide a good deal of comfort/relief without medication—a real plus.

But today NOTHING seems to help.  Not compression, not my regular prescription, not muscle relaxers, not even exercise.  Does anyone else have this malady and have any useful way to alleviate the symptoms?

Thanks in advance,

Eric  

This is anecdotal but I have struggled with restless leg syndrome at night for years and have actually been able to resolve it almost entirely... see below.

My father also has very bad restless legs - worse than mine - so perhaps there is a genetic element. A few years ago he had to completely eliminate sugar for health reasons. Once he stopped eating any kind of refined sugar, the restless legs disappeared. If he eats too many sweet biscuits in the day, he will get restless legs at night. It's cause and effect, like clockwork.

So I tried the same and found that refined sugar is absolutely the cause of restless legs (at least in my family). Now I only get it at night if I went to a party or something and eat a slice of chocolate cake with a lot of sugar - guaranteed leg jerking and that horrible tingling feeling all night.

I eat very healthily now. I never had a sweet tooth to start with but now I eat very clean and I don't get restless legs any more unless I over-indulge in sugary food... which to be honest should probably be avoided whether you have restless legs or not!

Hope this helps you.

Supplements I take that have a marked effect on RLS and similar issues are glycine and chelated magnesium (easier on the stomach than mag citrate).

A drug option to consider is Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN); Naltrexone is FDA approved at 50mg for opioid and alcohol addiction treatment, but used at 5mg or less for fibromyalgia (among other things, but I think the most studies have been around fibro as an "off-book" use of the drug) and referred to as "low-dose." It's an interesting drug, even for someone like me who dislikes taking medicine.

It seems to be the most reliably effective treatment that impacts RLS and those kinds of symptoms of fibromyalgia that I have used.I have had no side effects and it's pretty inexpensive. It must be prescribed for you and then filled by a compounding pharmacy (ones that will ship to you are not hard to find if there are none close by).

Judy J Johnston wrote:I add essential oils to magnesium oil and use it every night. Basil, marjoram, geranium, Lavender, roman chamomile...seems to help...not completely gone, but enough so I can get to sleep

Judy, sounds wonderful! You've taken it a step further than I have, but I found that magnesium oil rubbed on my legs before bedtime was the thing that really helped me. I also found that taking my magnesium supplements played a role, too. I suffered from restless legs syndrome three years ago and was desperate to find a cure.

Mike Haasl wrote:Have you tried pickle juice?  I'm not sure if it needs to be dill or some other type of pickle but I've heard it works for many people.  Taken internally I believe...

My husband uses the Dill pickle juice and it works pretty well.  Dill is anti-spasmodic, and the cukes and apple cider vinegar are high in potassium and the brine has sodium, all of which can prevent cramps.  Sometimes no matter how much water we drink we are still dehydrated because we aren’t getting enough natural sodium (good sea salt, unrefined is best), with it so that it goes into tissues.  Sodium is one of the base electrolytes.  Magnesium also helps muscles relax.  

Ok, I am about to revive this thread after almost a year.  For the past 2ish years my RLS has been controlled by my prescription medication and compression.  Compression is highly important and this does pose an issue in summer months as the compression garments can simply be too hot to wear outside.  Inside I am fine as long as any additional layer is 1) short, and 2) very thin.  

But the last two weeks and especially the last several days seemingly nothing helps.  Last night I went digging online for help and found—magnesium!!  And then I remembered this thread.  I told/was complaining to my wife about the intensity of my RLS—and she could see my legs twitch—and she was kind enough to go ahead and order some Magnesium supplements for me today which I am about to try—and none too soon as my legs have been going nonstop for the last three days!

I just took my first dose (at 11:45 am) of two today.  I will post back again later today to see if even one does makes a difference.  I am really not expecting much for today, but I thought that I could give a daily account of (hopeful) progress.

Eric

Surely I am imagining this.

It’s been just a bit over 1/2 hour since I made the previous post and I was away posting on another thread on Permies when I suddenly realized that my legs were not jumping out of my skin.  Could this be for real?  1/2 hour seems like barely enough time for GI/Oral absorption, let alone time for the magnesium to actually do anything in my body but—there it is.  

I will update.

Eric

I may have posted this before, but here it is again if so.  My Mom, in her 90s suffered from twitchy legs and cramping.  I would spray magnesium "oil" onto her legs and rub it in, which helped quite a bit.  Also we used an apple cider vinegar concoction that included garlic juice and I think ginger juice, but was mainly raw ACV.  I'd put that liquid onto a cotton ball and rub that onto her legs and feet.  That helped, as did a nightly foot massage.  The benefits were temporary, but allowed her to get to sleep.  She would drink a cup of CALM each day, but could not swallow supplements.  

Myself, I take magnesium supplements of different types daily, and use the "oil" as needed for cramping.  However the biggest reduction in all those symptoms was eliminating sugar from my diet.  I was put on an anti-inflammatory diet which eliminated all sugar.  It also eliminated the restless legs, cramping, and even most hot flashes!  It took a few weeks while I also kept up with my supplements and black cohosh, but eventually I was able to cut way back on the black cohosh for hot flashes, and stopped having to play whack-a-mole using magnesium oil to stop cramps or RLS.  

I'm no longer on that diet per se, and have noticed that when I indulge in sugar in any form more than once a week or so, that those things start to come back.   Hope this helps!

Eric Hanson wrote:Surely I am imagining this.

It’s been just a bit over 1/2 hour since I made the previous post and I was away posting on another thread on Permies when I suddenly realized that my legs were not jumping out of my skin.  Could this be for real?  1/2 hour seems like barely enough time for GI/Oral absorption, let alone time for the magnesium to actually do anything in my body but—there it is.  

I will update.

Eric

Yes, that can absolutely happen!  Your wife must have gotten a fast-absorbing type of magnesium supplement for you.  Your body has probably been screaming for it for a long time.  Sometimes a form of acidity (like ACV) needs to be consumed to help the magnesium be assimilated enough to do any good, but you must've had just the right conditions for it to absorb and work fast.  

I hope it continues to work that well for you!

There are many complementary tings involved in supporting the nerves and circulation to the leg muscles.  Getting sun exposure to the legs actually would help in that it generates vitamin D3.  The magnesium oil is a super concentrated solution of magnesium sulfide Epsom salt.  It is my emergency go to when doing therapy for someone with cramping at the time of treatment.

Donna,

Thanks for letting me know that the magnesium can work this fast and that I am not imagining things!

It’s about 4:00 pm and my legs feel pretty good.  A 1 of 10 on my jumpy leg scale.  I can feel that the RLS exists but it doesn’t really bother me and I forget about it if I am not paying attention.

For what it’s worth, I swallowed my first magnesium supplement pill with water from my water bottle—which I just flavored up by juicing a lemon into it.  Maybe the acidity of the lemon was what pushed the magnesium into action so quickly?  And yes, there is the possibility that my body was screaming for magnesium but I couldn’t/wouldn’t hear/listen.  

When I mentioned to my wife that I was feeling drastic relief in only 30 minutes she suggested a placebo effect may be in play—a reasonable assumption.  And maybe a placebo effect is at work, so I guess the real proof will be if this keeps working.

Still, I am very hopeful!  Thanks so much to everyone who recommended magnesium!!

Eric

I have had increased leg and low back symptoms as I age and my scoliosis evolves. My leg cramps in the middle of the night would practically throw me out of bed. I added magnesium and potassium to my calcium/D3, maybe a year ago. I do get leg cramps much less. I also have been taking gabapentin at bedtime to reduce the nerve pain in my back and legs while sleeping. The mention of reducing sugar is valuable. Inflammation is a typical culprit in most ailments that I experience. Seems like reducing sugar results in less inflammation. Also caffeine. If I drink higher dosage coffee, I definitely have more symptoms. I try to stay with a half caf blend and only drink every other day. Rest of the days I am drinking green tea, jasmine pearls being my go to. Dietary interventions, along with herbal and vitamin/mineral supplementation can go along way to ward off a lot of these ailments. Regular stretching and exercise is also a necessity for me. Add the peace of mind from working in the garden, and I am much healthier as a result.

Eric Hanson wrote:When I mentioned to my wife that I was feeling drastic relief in only 30 minutes she suggested a placebo effect may be in play—a reasonable assumption.  And maybe a placebo effect is at work, so I guess the real proof will be if this keeps working.

I read an interesting article years ago, where the conclusion was that the placebo effect can be far greater than previously thought (about 60%). However, this conclusion was based on the doctor in question not believing that a treatment that he didn't believe could work, worked better than the ~30% attributed to the placebo effect.

I don't have RLS - but I do get "serious night cramps in my legs/feet" which has increased as I age. I absolutely find that oral Magnesium citrate helps, and helps within 1-2 hours of taking it. I've read some suggestions that if we have too much calcium in our diet, we can get it out of balance with magnesium. I would say my diet is fairly calcium rich. I like and I have access to foods containing lots of calcium (but don't drink milk as I am poor at digesting lactose), and I have found that getting natural magnesium in my diet is more difficult. Maybe it's all in my head, but if the placebo effect can stop me from being jarred awake from sleep with a leg cramp, I'm OK with that. I've also read reports of people who have improved their diet and particularly their gut health, and been able to reduce their Schizophrenia medications. Our brains and bodies work together and if we respect and support that, I think that's better than dealing with side effects of many prescribed medications.

One more factoid that may help: magnesium is what makes leaves green.  So if one does not eat greens or digest them well it results in magnesium deficiency.  Living on processed foods is almost guaranteed to result in magnesium deficiency.  So a permaculture design should include year round production of greens you like to eat.

Update:  it’s 7:00pm and my RLS is starting to flare up—it just sorta snapped on—so I took my second magnesium capsule.  I might take my gabapentin in a few minutes.  We will see how things work out.

Eric

Day 2 of the Magnesium experiment.

I got up early this morning and by 4:00am I could feel my RLS start to wake up so I took my first magnesium capsule.  It is now 6:30am and my legs feel pretty good.  Just for reference, my RLS strikes any time of day or night so a morning flare up is typical.

Every source I find on the internet says that these supplements should take a week at the very least to start working with two weeks being more typical and some sources say that I may require as much as four weeks for the magnesium to build up enough to have a noticeable effect.  All of this suggests that:

1). I have one heck of a placebo effect going on.  If this is true then I am thankful that the placebo makes me feel better.

2). I have one incredibly fast-acting form of magnesium (magnesium glycinate).  Or possibly alternatively/additionally I was so deficient in magnesium that just a little went a very long ways.

Thoughts?

Eric

I have experienced rapid results after taking Magnesium for hand cramping.

Some of those people for whom Magnesium is slow to work, could have other problems that either are making it very hard for their gut to absorb Magnesium, or have other conditions that are causing the problem than low Magnesium.

At one point my Vit D got seriously depleted. I was amazed how quickly my body reacted to a small boost. Placebo effect may have helped, along with what I will call, "the brain effect" - your brain knows you're doing something to help, so it tells the body to just calm down and let it work. Call that a "placebo" if you want, but the placebo is about "tricking" a person by giving them something fake and telling them it will work - so you might say that the internet is tricking you that Magnesium will help your legs. But I've mentioned how strong the brain/gut connection is, so if the brain can tell, "wow, Magnesium in the pipeline - make the body react so it will keep coming" is that a placebo effect? Magnesium is very important for the brain. too.

Some people are much more "in tune" with their bodies than others. My third pregnancy, I knew 2 days before my period was due that I was pregnant and that it was "a go". My first pregnancy, my periods stopped, but I didn't feel "pregnant enough" and sure enough it was an early miscarriage - just a tissue blob, no actual fetus forming. Don't ask me how I knew, but I knew. A friend's girlfriend showed up to emerg with severe "stomach pains" - she delivered a baby girl. Apparently there are a significant number of women in North America who don't have a clue they're pregnant until they start delivering. That's as alien to me, than I may be to other people.

I know this is in an herb forum but since you mentioned gabapentin I’ll tell you what works for me. I was in a bad wreck and the resulting surgery both left me with nerve damage and now I get rls horribly. I do also take the gabapentin but that’s for the nerve pain. Ropinirole is the only thing that made me ok. It does make you a bit drowsy though so while you could take it at like 6pm I would find it difficult to do so at 6am. It seems to build up in your system though so taking a bit before bedtime is what I do.

My doctor has rls as well and that was her recommendation after the otc supplements didn’t help.  

 

OK, a week later and here are the results:

First off, the magnesium (glycinate?) did provide me with some instant relief (instant means it took about 1/2 hour for absorption) each time I took it this week.  However, starting at 6:00 pm, my legs would come to life and I writhed in agony because of the awful leg-crawling feeling.  Even my regular meds did not help during this period.  The only thing that helped was finally taking my sleep meds and going to bed (chronic insomniac, so I actually require meds to sleep or I simply will not sleep).  

However, starting yesterday/Sunday, I noticed that my legs simply never ever turned on in the first place.  This is consistent with what I was seeing online, meaning that I needed to take the Magnesium for about a week to see any real effect.  And for a long-term benefit, it seems like about 1 week is about right.  With luck, this is something that will continue to have a cumulative effect as I continue to take the Magnesium supplement.

Eric