Win a Fokin hoe blade this week in the Gear forum!
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education experiences global resources the cider press projects digital market permies.com private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • r ranson
  • Anne Miller
  • paul wheaton
stewards:
  • Mike Jay
  • Jocelyn Campbell
  • Miles Flansburg
garden masters:
  • Dan Boone
  • Dave Burton
  • Steve Thorn
  • Greg Martin
gardeners:
  • Shawn Klassen-Koop
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Mike Barkley

raspberries as a small cash crop

 
pollinator
Posts: 4437
Location: North Central Michigan
12
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Rose thanks for the thoughts..as for plums and sloes and several of the things you mentioned ..and also the animals to feed the stuff to..i don't have those things here..no animials but cats and wildlings..

I do make jelly from apples and from lots of other fruits and berries..and i do can and freeze fruits and vegetables as well..have for 38 years..but haven't ever sold the canned items..we have strict laws here for that.

I don't have an approved kitchen..but i do give my jellies as gifts.

our new president..Obama..has been allowing laws to go through to bring even more regulations on home kitchens and farm produce..requiring us to meet lots of laws before we can sell anything..fortunately i can barter or trade or sell to locals without much problem as the food police aren't out here regularly patroling to see if we are breaking the food laws..

but that probably won't last.

i would not attempt to sell products made from food as i would likely get sued..but i can sell fresh produce at a roadside stand at this point..

generally the products i make from the foods are for myself or my friends or family as gifts..i'm sure my kitchen wouldn't qualify with 2 cats roaming around..
 
pollinator
Posts: 2103
Location: Oakland, CA
3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Brenda Groth wrote:
fortunately i can barter or trade or sell to locals without much problem as the food police aren't out here regularly patroling to see if we are breaking the food laws..

but that probably won't last.



I'm becoming convinced, especially as I read commentators like Jeff Vail, that informal economies will become increasingly important as time goes by. 

Similarly, I am absolutely certain that barter has been misrepresented and drastically over-simplified by theorists whose training has not prepared them for transactions without money.

One of the forms of barter that is most difficult for econometricians (yes, I mean that word) and governments (IRS, USDA) to grapple with is the condition of mutual obligation that drives so-called "gift" economies.  How can a tax rate be determined when no money has changed hands, and no conscious accounts have been kept, much less paper records?  How can authority over interstate trade be construed to apply to a gift given freely, within county lines?

I bet the community you trade with has enough trust built up among its members to shift over to one of the more obfuscated modes of trade when the need arises.  If it helps, you can think of it as a credit card issued by sovereign wealth fund of the Kingdom of Heaven. 
 
Brenda Groth
pollinator
Posts: 4437
Location: North Central Michigan
12
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
there used to be a lot more barter systems around here in the 60's and early 70's then there are at this period of time..

I remember we used to barter goods and services a lot when Ron and I were first married..and even before during my parents time when we were growing up..like paying the dr for medical care with produce.

I agree that it would be good if these systems could come back again..as a more common form of economics..and I think it will.

we do still see small forms  of it from time to time..such as..this past summer my son traded work on his tractor for a few hours of backhoe use, dirt and diesel fuel that was left over after they were done renting the backhoe..

all he provided was his time and our tractor..to move dirt..and we were given 3 hours of backhoe time, 6 5 gallon cans of diesel fuel and tons of dirt.

by allowing the use of my foley food mill to the neighbor ..we got a jar of applesauce homade..sure a small barter but nonetheless it was a trade of goods..

often people trade day care for services..or goods.

we often trade car repairs for services..

i would be blessed to see this increase in popularity
 
master steward
Posts: 27745
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
bee chicken hugelkultur trees wofati woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
And now it's time for a word from the wet blanket ....

I would like to ask .... pretty please .... that we keep all discussion about gub'mint, laws, and those damn politicians to the "meaningless drivel" forum.  A lot of forums end up turning into a big flamewars thing and nothing brings that out like talking about politics.  I kinda like the idea that the "organic practices" forum focuses on "how to make the best of it" rather than "I'm mad at _________"

And so concludes another riveting episode from the wet blanket ....


 
Joel Hollingsworth
pollinator
Posts: 2103
Location: Oakland, CA
3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks, Paul.

By the way, I'm not angry at anyone, and I did try to keep my comment relevant to the idea of producing raspberries for others to consume, to help make a living.
 
Posts: 715
Location: Zone 5
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hey Brenda,
Out where my wild horses run, which is within driving distance but not close, there were the best yellow berries I have ever had.  How and when would be the best time to get some?
 
Brenda Groth
pollinator
Posts: 4437
Location: North Central Michigan
12
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
sorry Paul..

well our gold raspberries aren't producing right now..but they are first year bushes so i'm not sure..but i picked another handful of black raspberries this week..just a handful..but noticed a LOT of green berries coming on ..so we will be picking them until they freeze i guess (we did have a light frost again last night)..they have been bearing since June.

those black ones have been such a blessing..my others..red and gold..are all baby baby plants..so we'll have to wait until next year to see how well they do..but i did get one more red raspberry off of a tiny plant last week..so i think they'll bear till frost as well.
 
paul wheaton
master steward
Posts: 27745
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
bee chicken hugelkultur trees wofati woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I deleted three more posts. 

One had religious references, one suggested somebody was stupid, and the third was (appropriately) raising concerns about those two.  (although, in the future, please click on "report to moderator" and I'll probably just delete it - easier on you)

 
Posts: 109
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Brenda:  If you aren't allowed to make jam without a processing license can you do dried items?  Here in NY we need an exemption for both which we have.  Of interest is that we were in a healthfood store in a small town that has a regional hospital.  There is a need from the midwives for a source of dried raspberry leaves.  There are lots of benefits for women that are pregnant or want to be.  I saw the earlier post by Joel, but this is another little wrinkle that can get your foot in the door.  You also get two benefits from the one plant.  Our focus is on medicinal herb propagating and marketing for the coming season.  Who knows, doesn't seem to be alot of people doing it in a local, small, and natural/organic way, and there is a good need. 

Ed

http://luckydogfarm.wordpress.com/
 
Posts: 438
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Darn, I was going to suggest jars of strawberry rhubarb pie filling that could also be used as jam. Takes care of any not pretty looking strawberries and makes good use of the rhubarb too. Oh well, you could give that as gifts, saves money on having to buy stuff and can be made in big batches to save time and electricity too. I buy tons of berries from county stands all summer long here, I would cry if they could no longer sell like that! Sometimes I find jam too but it's the country, who's going to report that sort of thing? Nobody I hope...

Oh, I just had a thought though. If there is somebody in town who has a restaurant (approved kitchen!) Maybe they would buy your berries from you for jam etc or let you use their kitchen for a fee during off hours. Worth a try, might be a good partnership!
 
                    
Posts: 0
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

jeremiah bailey wrote:
I guess I'll just have to see what they do their second year. They are in a space that was sodden at the beginning of the year.



Most cane fruit bear on second year wood - first year after transplanting is usually meager, mostly vegetative growth preparing to produce fruit in the future.
 
Ed Waters
Posts: 109
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
CLM: another alternative would be a church.  Alot have kitchens, and you can donate some of your extras to the needy.

JB:  we are trying Cossack Pineapple, Ground Cherries, and Garden Huckleberries this year.  From transplant out to produce is 70 days.  So far they seem to be easy to start from seed, Gets  around that waiting period with the true berry plants.

Ed



 
T. Joy
Posts: 438
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Oh, you are right, I should know that. We organized a local canning bee class with local fruit tree harvest when I lived in Nelson, the church let us use their kitchen.
 
                                  
Posts: 21
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Brenda,
  How lucky are we to live in MI!  A law was passed recently allowing small scale production of certain food items from home without a business license or certification.  They have to be non- hazardous foods like jams, jellies, breads, pies, rolls, cookies and cakes.  I too live about an hour from the world's cherry capital.  I purchased 2.2 acres in July of 2009 and I am looking to clear part of it and plant berries and fruit as well.  The goods you can make can be sold at roadside stands, farmer's markets or you can take orders for them but cannot be sold through a retail store without a business license or kitchen certification.  It is a way for people to "test drive" whether or not the want to go into a full blown business.  Where I'm at, some of the seasonal produce markets will buy your produce from you as well.  In the spring I sometimes sell my extra morels from my mushroom hunts and rhubarb, asparagus, strawberries.  I make less than if I sold them retail myself but at least they aren't wasted.  With the new law I may be able to sell the berries, the jam and a few baked goods.  It's amazing how lazy some of the city folk really are.  You can really clean up!
 
Posts: 164
Location: North Carolina
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Brenda,
  You jokingly referred to the raccoons as a cash crop.  Yes!  In some areas people are selling them as gourmet meat at high prices!
 
                                  
Posts: 21
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Brenda Groth wrote:
there used to be a lot more barter systems around here in the 60's and early 70's then there are at this period of time..

I remember we used to barter goods and services a lot when Ron and I were first married..and even before during my parents time when we were growing up..like paying the dr for medical care with produce.

I agree that it would be good if these systems could come back again..as a more common form of economics..and I think it will.

we do still see small forms  of it from time to time..such as..this past summer my son traded work on his tractor for a few hours of backhoe use, dirt and diesel fuel that was left over after they were done renting the backhoe..

all he provided was his time and our tractor..to move dirt..and we were given 3 hours of backhoe time, 6 5 gallon cans of diesel fuel and tons of dirt.

by allowing the use of my foley food mill to the neighbor ..we got a jar of applesauce homade..sure a small barter but nonetheless it was a trade of goods..

often people trade day care for services..or goods.

we often trade car repairs for services..

i would be blessed to see this increase in popularity



  Given the present economy we may see a lot more of it, I hope.
 
Melba Corbett
Posts: 164
Location: North Carolina
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I sell my dried raspberry leaves for tea at a local organic farmers co-op market, as well as the berries.  I pick from first year plants so I don't interfere with the ones that are getting ready to bear.  I do some other herbal teas as well and will start a separate thread for that info.
 
Brenda Groth
pollinator
Posts: 4437
Location: North Central Michigan
12
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
got back to this thread again..our black raspberries did wonderful this year ..I made a gob of jelly from them and froze a bunch of them but didn't sell any, did give a load of them to a neighbor

the reds and golds still are slow in producing and my blueberries (9 bushes) had ONE berry this year..so I'm hoping for a harvest next year..(it was yummy though)

I did hear about the new law in Michigan and am thrilled that we can sell from our homes with no permits at least a limited amount.

My baby fruit trees should start producing next year as well, esp the pears, but not enough yet to sell I don't think. do have an abundance of apples this year, gave some to a neighbor and she made juice and gave me juice from them and pears we gave her.

the giving jellies as gifts has gotten a bit of a wrench thrown in, my one sister now has diabetes and the others don't care for the jams and jellies as gifts..they would rather have plastic junk..tee hee

i do believe next year will be a good year for our fruits
 
Shiny ad:
permaculture bootcamp - learn permaculture through a little hard work
https://permies.com/wiki/bootcamp
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!