King Arthur bread flour now contains a highly-processed fungal additive

Judith Browning wrote:I've never used this flour...we grind organic wheat berries but what is striking to me is the "safe handling" instructions at the bottom of the label Lisa posted.  
That alone would keep me from using this flour.

How could you be comfortable kneading bread bare handed and especially the standard cookie dough treat with the grandkids?

The warning about uncooked dough probably relates to the cereal bacteria that also comes with rice, that makes rice unsafe to eat if it's been kept warm for any length of time. It survives boiling, so kept warm is allowed to fester: if storing cool promptly and refrigerate. We know bread and sourdough to be safe from experience, that's probably because there's lots of competition from the yeast/starter.
But if I want flour, I want flour. I can add extras myself.

The other thing that comes to mind is kaf is just like any other big company. They think they can do anything they want and the consumer just has to except it. The one guaranteed way to get a change is get in their pockets. Spread this information on Facebook and everywhere else so millions see it. If enough people stop buying from them, they will change

I can see that this issue is hitting some hot triggers and thought I would try to provide some information.  "Organic" is a very broad term.  The USDA has an entire training section called "Organic 101" to explain what in included.  On the third installment of this training, https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2012/03/22/organic-101-what-usda-organic-label-means Within this installment is what seems to me to be a very pertinent paragraph

"When it comes to processed, multi-ingredient foods, the USDA organic standards specify additional considerations. Regulations prohibit organically processed foods from containing artificial preservatives, colors, or flavors and require that their ingredients are organic, with some minor exceptions. For example, processed organic foods may contain some approved non-agricultural ingredients, like enzymes in yogurt, pectin in fruit jams, or baking soda in baked goods."  

So, what we have here appears to be what is technically correctly called "Organic" when what one needs to actually require is perhaps "100% Natural".  The enzyme is a fungal-based product regardless of how it is commercially developed.  A possible compromise might be to suggest that a product without the enzyme included be provided for those who wish a more purist version.  Or, perhaps folks could just buy hard red wheat or other variety and grind their own flour.  It would appear that making a sourdough would take care of leavening if yeast is not wanted.  I found this barley flour version that adds significant healthy fiber to your product https://www.homecookingadventure.com/sourdough-barley-bread/ .

Sorry, but my engineer's brain tries to explore potential alternatives.

Lisa Brunette wrote:
It's also a manufactured free glutamate: https://www.truthinlabeling.org/names.html

Is it?  From the reference, I have the impression it probably isn't at all, as it comes in the bag.  When the glutamates might appear, is after you've baked the bread.

Malted barley, though, they say could have some glutamate.  For your purposes, between the two, fungal alpha-amylase might be a better bet than malted barley.

My thinking on the chemistry:  

glutamate is a form of glutamic acid, an amino acid that's a constituent of all proteins.  When the protein is broken down to amino acids, and the glutamic acid is freed, it joins with some cation like sodium and becomes (e.g.) monosodium glutamate.

Enzymes are proteins that can participate in chemical reactions, like breaking starch molecules into sugars (amylase.)

Malted barley has those amylase enzymes - or had them.  It's a source of maltose, a simple disaccharide that the enzymes produce from starch.  It's possible to provide the malted barley with its enzymes intact - "diastatic malt" - but the effect on bread is not very desirable.  (Maybe some people like it, but I'd call it awful.)  Much more commonly, the malt is toasted, which denatures the enzyme - and as truthinlabeling surmises, could possible break off some glutamates.

Whatever the purpose of the fungal alpha-amylase, it's apparently an active enzyme, which means its protein is intact and there's no obvious reason why it would come with glutamates.  The question would be how baking the bread would affect the enzyme.  I can only guess, but likely the enzyme is denatured - its special conformation is ruined so it can no longer break down starch - but that's easy because it typically involves weak hydrogen bonds.  I wouldn't guess that it converts the protein to its amino acid constituents, but there'd be some clue to this in the manufacturing processes that do produce glutamates from protein - are they similar to the internal temperature of baked bread?

Thanks Richard for the barley flour link

The form of aluminum for this discussion is not recognizable as a metal. It is not protected by oxidation from reactions at this level and from what I read has been been changed in valance at the molecular level. Each metric element can have electrons removed and then can make new compounds. This is easier if you have studied chemical thermodynamics. The form of maltose that has been identified in the paper I provided the link to is aluminum maltone which is a specific form of maltose in combination with aluminum after molecular reactions in an acidic environment. All water contains excess hydrogen atoms which lowers its pH - the definition of an acid. Any aluminum released into an aqueous solution will remain until it finds something to bind to. The percentage is quite small but not zero. Any feee aluminum will be able to bind in a body with malton, a sub-form of maltose to form, in this reaction, aluminum maltone.

Let’s face it, my professor saw this potential process over 30 years ago and it remains a theory. However that theory is now gaining scientific traction.  There are few guarantees in this life.

So not to add a political frosting to the cake in question (hardee har har...), but one may wish to contact the North Dakota State Mill regarding their flour.  I noticed here, once you click on the ingredient label, that their organic all-purpose flour lists only organic wheat flour as its sole ingredient:

https://www.ndmill.com/product/5lb-flour/

Unfortunately, I'm not seeing a similar product in the bread flour (hard red spring wheat) offering, which is odd given the popularity of that grade of flour.  But it may be worth seeing if they produce bulk quantities of organic bread flour for specialty markets and may have a way to bag some up for small customer resale.  

(The political comment is due to the fact that the ND State Mill is the only State (tax dollar) supported grain milling operation in the nation to my knowledge:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Dakota_Mill_and_Elevator )

I think this has been added to things for sometime. I just saw today a box of this:

(may not be the same flavor)
Had alpha-amylase listed in the ingredients.

Ingredients
Organic Whole Grain Oat Flour, Vitamins & Minerals (Calcium Phosphate, Ferric Pyrophosphate, Folic Acid, Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E), Niacinamide (Vitamin B3), Zinc Oxide, Cyanocobalamin (Vitamin B12), Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6)), Alpha Amylase (Enzyme). OATS MAY CONTAIN WHEAT.

Is this the same thing?

Almond Thompson wrote:I think this has been added to things for sometime. .....
Is this the same thing?

At least this product is more specific with its labeling!  So in this cereal we at least know it's alpha amylase, but we don't know the source or the method of preparation....it could be fungal or from cereal grain or perhaps some other source.  What can become concerning is the fact that *some* additives like this *can* be allergenic to a fraction of the human consumer and adding it in for some marketing or processing/baking/digestibility reason is a decision to be made cautiously if at all.  It seems innocuous enough that alpha amylase is a natural enzyme with the ability to break down starch.  But alpha amylase is an 'enzyme activity' that is provided by a family of proteins in most plants, some of which may be allergenic (see link below).  To be sure, it would be possible for a flour/cereal company to research and obtain a source of alpha amylase that can be pre-tested on a sample population for allergenicity.....but to what extent is this done?  And is use of the label "enzyme" just so broad that it raises even more questions?


https://www.jacionline.org/action/showPdf?pii=S0091-6749%2807%2901422-4

I buy organic flour from Heartland Mills. You have to call and order it but the lady is sweet and ships right away. It contains flour. The end. They only produce organic flours.

Melissa, welcome to the forum.

Thank you for the information on Heartland Mills.

For everyone who might be interested, here is their product page:

https://heartlandmill.com/pages/products

Saralee Couchoud wrote:I guess I would recommend buying whole wheat berries and grinding it yourself. I plan to take it a step further and grow the wheat myself. I have seed for seven different varieties and one variety of rye. They don't cross pollinate so I can grow all of them side by side. I got my seed from "seed up "  out of Phoenix. It is all organic and ancient grains starting with enkorn wheat which is biblical ere to the latest one that is from the 1800s

That's awesome! Let us know how it works out.

Donn Cave wrote:

Lisa Brunette wrote:
It's also a manufactured free glutamate: https://www.truthinlabeling.org/names.html

Is it?  From the reference, I have the impression it probably isn't at all, as it comes in the bag.  When the glutamates might appear, is after you've baked the bread.

Malted barley, though, they say could have some glutamate.  For your purposes, between the two, fungal alpha-amylase might be a better bet than malted barley.

My thinking on the chemistry:  

glutamate is a form of glutamic acid, an amino acid that's a constituent of all proteins.  When the protein is broken down to amino acids, and the glutamic acid is freed, it joins with some cation like sodium and becomes (e.g.) monosodium glutamate.

Enzymes are proteins that can participate in chemical reactions, like breaking starch molecules into sugars (amylase.)

Malted barley has those amylase enzymes - or had them.  It's a source of maltose, a simple disaccharide that the enzymes produce from starch.  It's possible to provide the malted barley with its enzymes intact - "diastatic malt" - but the effect on bread is not very desirable.  (Maybe some people like it, but I'd call it awful.)  Much more commonly, the malt is toasted, which denatures the enzyme - and as truthinlabeling surmises, could possible break off some glutamates.

Whatever the purpose of the fungal alpha-amylase, it's apparently an active enzyme, which means its protein is intact and there's no obvious reason why it would come with glutamates.  The question would be how baking the bread would affect the enzyme.  I can only guess, but likely the enzyme is denatured - its special conformation is ruined so it can no longer break down starch - but that's easy because it typically involves weak hydrogen bonds.  I wouldn't guess that it converts the protein to its amino acid constituents, but there'd be some clue to this in the manufacturing processes that do produce glutamates from protein - are they similar to the internal temperature of baked bread?

Even if it's not, this bread flour made me sick. The previous version of this flour without the enzyme did not. End of story for me.

I called KA to ask what the heck happened to their Org Bread Flour which I've used for many years now and been happy with its "performance" in making sourdough bread and pizza crust.  Suddenly, maybe around 4 or 5 months ago, something change big time with how it handles during bread making.  It's much softer, stickier, the prior water:flour ratio I've used for eons suddenly leaves the dough way softer w/ less structure.  The KA phone person said she thought it was lower protein content from climate change, which of course is ludicrious that doesn't change overnight, and this change literally happened with the next and all subsequent 5lb bags of flour purchased at a grocery store near Denver CO.  She suggested I add Vital Gluten which I have.  Long about 2 months ago the price went from $11.99 to $7.99 and the store says that's not temporary sale price it's locked in for now.  So what gives?  Was it the addition of this enzyme?  

Recs on Organic Bread Flours you really love?

It doesn't seem entirely ludicrous to me - wheat does move around in very large batches and is sourced from a broad range of environments, so I wouldn't expect it to necessarily reflect the pace of change, in the kitchen.

So I made a casual web search, and my impression is that climate change is kind of expected to lower protein content on the average, but no one knows for sure yet.  So King Arthur phone bank people should probably not be citing this factoid.

just because it's lab made does not make it synthetic. our sour dough starters are made in our own home little labs and if it where made in a bigger lab it's still be the same starter....... lab does not equal synthetic

Hi Carolyn,

Welcome to Permies.

This is good to know.  I had an adverse reaction to KA flour in my sour dough.  I get a rash on my face - and when I eat the bread it flares up and spreads.  It took me months to figure out that it was the bread.  Devastated - but now I know.  I was also suffered some bloating.  

I recommend getting all your flour from Maine Grains. They have the best unadulterated grain products in the game.

Maine Grains All Purpose Flour

It is now also in there all purpose flour. I bought it not realizing that I should’ve looked at the ingredients before I bought it. I have Alpha gal syndrome, and I don’t know if it’s gonna affect that or not. But they seem to be very sensitive to additives.

Welcome to the forum.

Just curious, what is Alpha Gal syndrome?

Anne Miller wrote:Welcome to the forum.

Just curious, what is Alpha Gal syndrome?

Alpha Gal syndrome is a tick-borne disease/condition that leads to not being able to eat red meat (induces an allergy to it). It can be treated but it takes a long time, I have heard.

Lately our pricey Southern grocery chain has started to carry all-purpose einkorn flour! In the last three months my family has now switched exclusively to that for baking. I am so excited. Delicious, nutritious, farmed regeneratively--the works.

I’m not sure this is the correct place to post this reply but Alpha gAl syndrome is a tick born disease that causes you to be allergic to anything mammal that has hair or hooves. Some people are just allergic to the meat, while others can be allergic to any products derived from the meat. So for some reason, enriched flour uses some type of mammal product, but I’m not sure what that product is. You wouldn’t believe how many things contain products derived from mammals.