Complete Diet Garden/Farm

Ludi wrote:

... I'm not sure it would be very healthy to get most of one's calories from alcohol.      Calories in the form of alcohol are also easy to store and protect from varmints.

jmy wrote:
permaculturists importing most of their food and drink  and talking about being sustainable

SouthEastFarmer wrote:
Can you give us some idea of what your yields were like for each of these crops?  What did you do with the crop residue for each?  Did you succession plant for any of the annuals?  This can make a huge difference in how much growing space is required.

SouthEastFarmer wrote:
If you don't know the yields, how did/do you gauge that you will have "enough"?

jmy wrote:
The first year we grew too much  ...  the next year we got better ...but still had a comfortable surplus back up.

we prepared/ate germinated corn everyday.  365 days   

each corn plant averaged 1 1/2 ears ...  so 1 1/2 ears/day/adult

SouthEastFarmer wrote:
If you don't know the yields, how did/do you gauge that you will have "enough"? How do you decide how much to plant for each crop?

Were certain varieties (corn, beans, etc...) more successful for you?  Did you plant more than one variety of each type of crop?

It sounds like you had a lot of fruit/nut trees and vines.  Were these planted in a separate area or did you plant the annuals as an understory?

In addition to the crop rotation, and leaving fields fallow, did you use any green manure crops to maintain fertility or plant other nitrogen fixing plants besides the beans?

I'm curious regarding the 2.5 acres/adult size - you may have mentioned the total size of your property and I missed it.  Was this the amount of land you had to work with, or what you ended up using or needing from a larger parcel?

I understand that you did not have animals (does that mean no hunting, either?), however, several of us have pointed out that animals can and are incorporated into peoples diets/garden using small plots of land.  Are you still dismissing animals as options in general?

velacreations wrote:
Animals do not require more land.  Here is a basic permaculture principle: stacking functions.  What happens to corn stalks/leaves?  Feed them to the goat.  What happens to weeds in the garden?  Feed them to the rabbits.  What happens to kitchen waste? feed it to the pig/chickens or go earthworms >> pigs/chickens.  Meat is a much more dense form of nutrition, even compared to corn, so if you can produce some meat from the waste of your efforts, you increase your efficiency by a good margin.

Stacking functions increases efficiency in general.  I have yet to see any plants grow as well on pure veggie waste compost as they do with animal manure + veggie waste.

Now, I am a big fan of no importation, but in practice, it is actually less sustainable.  Supporting the businesses of your neighbors increases the sustainability of your community, which, in turn, increases your efficiency and sustainability.  There is definitely a limit, but trade/commerce for certain items within 5 miles from your property is not a bad thing. Supporting your local community helps to develop a local stability that helps everyone.

I do question a corn/grain based diet as far as health goes.  Depending on mostly grain can bring on the diseases of civilization (heart disease, diabetes, etc) because of the large starch intake.

That said, Robert Hart raised a considerable amount of food on 1/8 an acre using Forest Gardening/Stacking Functions techniques.  Animals should be a part of any homestead, they really help with the process of nutrients while producing an energy dense food.

Mt.goat wrote:
Taking a formularic approach to this seems very problomatic.I live on a relativaly recent alluvial deposit that easily leaches organic matter.My soil rates at 1/5 the production of soil less than a mile from me.Furthermore,I am surrounded by mountains,making perhaps less than 5% of the land around me suitable.It might also be dangerous to only eat off of one soil type as minerals might be lacking.But I live in a very diverse location.I spend most of my time outdoors even in winter and consume easily twice the calories of my more sedentary land mates.The west coast is renowned for summer drought so hopfully the caloric expence of irrigation is included and I am on the paleo diet and would rather just die than eat potatoes and corn for my sustinance.

Ludi Ludi wrote:
Ok, I'm just trying to get a sense of what people are growing or foraging/hunting etc for the bulk of their calories. 

velacreations wrote:
Animals do not require more land.  Here is a basic permaculture principle: stacking functions.  What happens to corn stalks/leaves?  Feed them to the goat.  What happens to weeds in the garden?  Feed them to the rabbits.  What happens to kitchen waste? feed it to the pig/chickens or go earthworms >> pigs/chickens.  Meat is a much more dense form of nutrition, even compared to corn, so if you can produce some meat from the waste of your efforts, you increase your efficiency by a good margin.

Stacking functions increases efficiency in general.  I have yet to see any plants grow as well on pure veggie waste compost as they do with animal manure + veggie waste.

Now, I am a big fan of no importation, but in practice, it is actually less sustainable.  Supporting the businesses of your neighbors increases the sustainability of your community, which, in turn, increases your efficiency and sustainability.  There is definitely a limit, but trade/commerce for certain items within 5 miles from your property is not a bad thing. Supporting your local community helps to develop a local stability that helps everyone.

I do question a corn/grain based diet as far as health goes.  Depending on mostly grain can bring on the diseases of civilization (heart disease, diabetes, etc) because of the large starch intake.

That said, Robert Hart raised a considerable amount of food on 1/8 an acre using Forest Gardening/Stacking Functions techniques.  Animals should be a part of any homestead, they really help with the process of nutrients while producing an energy dense food.

Animals , like us , require calories ...  those calories have to come from soil , water, and photosynthesis...  that requires space.

Eating animals requires an extra step ...  Entropy ...  and requires additional soil , water , and photosynthesis.

jmy wrote:
It comes down to soil and photosynthesis.

You have to have enough of each

raising animals is not growing your food if your are importing feed



http://www.theoildrum.com/user/oldfarmermac/stories_with_comments

jmy wrote:
It comes down to soil and photosynthesis.

You have to have enough of each

raising animals is not growing your food if your are importing feed

http://www.theoildrum.com/user/oldfarmermac/stories_with_comments

Ed wrote:
I'm not sure if this helps, but I have a study that was done in the UK called.

Self-sufficiency on a vegan diet: the land needed.   I know I found it on the internet but I cannot recreate it, in fact it is done on a typewriter and scanned.  It even includes herb plot and compost heap in the area required.  Vitamins, minerals and amino acid requirements are also considered.  They also supply yields per acre or square yard for all plants considered.

Their conclusion:  It is theorectically possible to supply the food needs of an average adult on a singularly uninspiring diet from a quarter of an acre of average land using only organic inputs.

If anyone wants to see the details, I will try and scan it and find a way to put it up here, if I cannot put it up here, I'll post it to our blog.

Ed

jmy wrote: He was basing most of the diet on Hazelnuts.