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yurts in a cold climate

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posted 10 years ago

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Anyone every stay or live in a yurt in a cold climate? I know the climate where it originates can be pretty rough, but I wanna hear some first hands from people in a usda zone 5 or lower, maybe some midwest type climates. I really liking the idea of a natural yurt (felt and canvas).

Peter Ellis

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posted 10 years ago

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I think William Coperthwaite, author of A Handmade Life, lived in a yurt in Maine. I have not yet got around to locating and reading the book, but have heard a number of people saying very positive things about both the book and the man.

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Jay C. White Cloud

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posted 10 years ago

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He Bryan,

Peter just gave a perfect example, and I must add that one must really understand this is a subjective view. I have lived in, built and own one (or share ownership of one) and it is the individuals comfort zones that must be considered...not the architecture...as most architecture can be made as warm and insulated as you would like.

I sleep outside year round...I live in vermont...last night it was well below zero without a windchill...It is all in what you are accustomed to and how you live that measure what you can tolerate and/or enjoy...

Paul Bonneau

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posted 10 years ago

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There are some yurt stories here that may help:

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Bryan Usille

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Ill look for that book Peter, sounds good.

Care to elaborate more Jay? You using a hammock/tarp combo or what?

Thanks Paul for the site, looks like a lot of good info for me there.

Jay C. White Cloud

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posted 10 years ago

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Care to elaborate more Jay? You using a hammock/tarp combo or what?

Hi Bryan,

Well, I have slept "outside" almost my entire life...as did many of my family members. Living in the "bush" was a big part of growing up. Most of the time (not that I like to) I just sleep in a "bivy sack and bed roll." I do own and love my hammocks and hanging tents, but don't always use them. As of late I just sleep on blanket and bedroll on the back porch or out in the woods if not to wet...

Each person's comfort levels for thermal insulation is their own. So, with a Ger or Yurt, one must insulate accordingly.

Good luck with your research,

j

Michael Helmersson

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posted 4 years ago

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Bryan Usille wrote:Anyone every stay or live in a yurt in a cold climate? I know the climate where it originates can be pretty rough, but I wanna hear some first hands from people in a usda zone 5 or lower, maybe some midwest type climates. I really liking the idea of a natural yurt (felt and canvas).

You posed this question about the time we embarked on our cold climate yurt adventure. We're in a 22ft Groovy Yurt (Mongolian style) with two layers of felt. Our winters get down into the -40s but we've never been cold unless I'm too sleepy to tend to the fire. Otherwise, with our wood cookstove going we easily maintain 20-25 degC and can accidentally get into the 30s C if we're trying to make pizza on a milder day. Annual firewood usage is 4.5 bush cords (4x4x8ft) of mostly spruce.

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Douglas Alpenstock

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posted 4 years ago

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Mike, if possible, some pictures would be really interesting.

Michael Helmersson

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posted 4 years ago

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There's a yurt in that snowbank, I promise.

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“Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position. But certainty is an absurd one.”
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Catie George

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posted 4 years ago

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Mike, how is it for mice? I've always been interested in yurts, but memories of the mice making their annual fall trek into the loghouse I grew up in have always given me reservations. Very impressive that it stays warm to -40C!

Michael Helmersson

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Catie George wrote:Mike, how is it for mice? I've always been interested in yurts, but memories of the mice making their annual fall trek into the loghouse I grew up in have always given me reservations. Very impressive that it stays warm to -40C!

Last summer was terrible. I did resolve the issue though, by stapling a band of hardware cloth all the way around the yurt where the mice were squeezing between the plywood skirt and the felt. We have the yurt sitting on 8 inches of styrofoam with two layers of 1/2" plywood as our flooring, all of which is encompassed by the 12" high plywood skirt. The first evening after installing the hardware cloth I could hear the mice freaking out, running all around the yurt, climbing onto the roof and scratching at the chimney. They seemed really angry but gave up after two nights of trying. Last year was a weird season for mice and voles for some reason.

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Catie George

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posted 4 years ago

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Thanks! Good to know about the hardware cloth, that's a good idea. I had wondered about them chewing through the yurt fabric itself.

Michael Helmersson

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Catie George wrote:Thanks! Good to know about the hardware cloth, that's a good idea. I had wondered about them chewing through the yurt fabric itself.

No, the fabric seems to be a deterrent for all the critters around here. We've had bears clawing at the walls and there's little evidence of it after the rain washes the paw prints away. Most of the concerns we had before deciding to buy a yurt proved unwarranted. Yves Ballenegger, the guy that started Groovy Yurts is a fantastic guy and listened to all our initial concerns patiently and politely without trying to sell us on anything. We're in our 6th winter full time in the yurt and can't imagine being in a house ever again.

“Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position. But certainty is an absurd one.”
― Voltaire

Tonya Hunte

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Location: Ontario - Someday Nova Scotia

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posted 3 years ago

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More pictures please!!! Did you pile the snow for warmth?

I'm also in Canada, and expect to buy a Groovy Yurt. I'll be assembling in Nova Scotia. Tell me all your stories. No seriously. ALL OF THEM. Pros, cons. Things you would have done differently. I need all the info LOL.

Michael Helmersson wrote:There's a yurt in that snowbank, I promise.

"Every house where love abides and friendship is a guest, is surely home - and home sweet home - for there the heart can rest." ~Henry Van Dyke

Michael Helmersson

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posted 3 years ago

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Tonya Hunte wrote:More pictures please!!! Did you pile the snow for warmth?

I'm also in Canada, and expect to buy a Groovy Yurt. I'll be assembling in Nova Scotia. Tell me all your stories. No seriously. ALL OF THEM. Pros, cons. Things you would have done differently. I need all the info LOL.

Yes, the snow really makes a difference in terms of heating. We don't purposely pile snow against the walls though, it's mostly just what we rake off of the roof. Our first winter, I was worried about the big berm of snow melting in the spring so I shoveled it away once I thought spring had arrived. But then winter returned and I really regretted it. Now I just leave it and it has never caused any trouble during the melt, probably because our floor is circular and the water can just run down the wall to soil. Some people build a square deck for their floor because it is easier but I really recommend against that.
If you've talked to Groovy Yurts already, you've probably encountered Yves, the owner. He is awesome. He visits us regularly on his delivery trips and he is super down to earth and genuine. Before we bought ours' I bombarded him with questions and he never tried to sell me on his yurts, he just kept answering my questions and politely hearing out my concerns. I thought our climate might be too cold for this but he just kept telling me that it should be fine. We're far more comfy in our yurt than we ever were in our house. We can enjoyably work and play outside in the cold knowing that we have warmth awaiting inside.
We try to avoid generating humidity indoors during the winter. This is the most common yurt problem that I read in my research. This is why we built a separate sauna for showering in and doing laundry. The advantage of the Groovy Yurt is that it can breathe through the walls as opposed to the modern vinyl yurts that need to be ventilated. Unfortunately, the humid air only breathes when it's warmer than -20C, so when it's cold the humidity gets trapped in the felt (always in the ceiling near the walls) and freezes. This continues until warm, sunny weather when it starts to drip inside. We have gotten used to this and it's a routine to put out containers to catch the drips or to hang tea towels between the rafters to catch them. The drips rarely amount to much but it may be an issue to some people.
The walls don't stop sound. This can be good if you're in nature or bad if you have neighbours. We are often woken up by bees outside, but this is not something we complain about. We get bears visiting, usually at night and their footsteps can be heard in the gravel outside. We've had bears try to scratch their way through the canvas many times but they always leave if we get our dogs to bark. If the dogs are too asleep to bark then we have to. I think if your yurt was unoccupied a bear could probably do damage but we've never had anything worse than muddy pawprints on the canvas. This might also be because we don't eat meat, so there is less of an appealing food smell here.

I'll leave you with this for now but please don't hesitate to ask questions. I'll see what photos we have to share.

Mike

“Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position. But certainty is an absurd one.”
― Voltaire

Tonya Hunte

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Location: Ontario - Someday Nova Scotia

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posted 3 years ago

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Michael Helmersson wrote:

I'll leave you with this for now but please don't hesitate to ask questions. I'll see what photos we have to share.

Mike

What started you on your yurt journey? Why did you decide on a yurt over other housing? How did you deal with friends and family when you told them you'd be living in a yurt? What's your permaculture setup like, besides the whole living-in-a-yurt thing? What's your favourite thing about living in a yurt?

Expect more questions

"Every house where love abides and friendship is a guest, is surely home - and home sweet home - for there the heart can rest." ~Henry Van Dyke

Michael Helmersson

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posted 3 years ago

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Tonya Hunte wrote:

Michael Helmersson wrote:

I'll leave you with this for now but please don't hesitate to ask questions. I'll see what photos we have to share.

Mike

What started you on your yurt journey? Why did you decide on a yurt over other housing? How did you deal with friends and family when you told them you'd be living in a yurt? What's your permaculture setup like, besides the whole living-in-a-yurt thing? What's your favourite thing about living in a yurt?

Expect more questions

We had a house that was not at all large but still seemed unnecessarily big for our needs. We had spent a few weeks over a few summers living aboard our little sailboat and got quite used to the spartan lifestyle. Everything we needed we had and nothing more. When the summer was over and we returned to our house we felt out of place and not "at home". Our house was a "fixer upper", so it was perpetually under construction and we had come to realize that we were not going to live there forever. That meant that any renovations or painting, etc was to be kept "neutral", meaning that we were fixing up and painting our house for its next owners, not for ourselves.
Heating and powering the house were pricey (by our standards) and the sewer and water bills were outrageous. These regular bills plus the anticipated regular maintenance (shingles, flooring, etc) seemed unsustainable, in permaculture terms.
During this time we were becoming awake to our diets and the problems with store bought foods. We went vegan and began planning to grow our own food. We bought land close to town and realized that building the home we wanted (earth-bermed) was going to be a long term project. We chose a yurt as the quickest, easiest way to be living on our land asap. It's been 5+ years now and we still haven't started building our earth-bermed/underground home. Instead, we've focused on increasing our growing areas and propagating more perennial trees and shrubs.
In 2019 we finished building a circular earthbag root cellar and moved the yurt on top of it. Now we have plenty of storage for food and it acts as our fridge. Access is through a trapdoor.
Friends and family were not really worried about us moving into the yurt. Every time we have a cold spell though, people tell us that they were thinking about us and wondering if we were okay and staying warm. It's hard to convince people that we're actually very comfortable until they come and visit us during the cold weather. Also, at first people thought we were going to be attacked and eaten by bears. Every one of our neighbours told us we were going to need a gun. Nope. They have had bear problems but we haven't.
I'm reluctant to consider ourselves permaculturalists because we don't have clear plans for much of what we do. We have lots of experiments going and have made lots of mistakes so we're more along the lines of permie wannabes.
My favourite thing about living in a yurt is the connection to nature. That sounds cheesy and cliché but I really do feel it. We are sheltered from the elements but we are totally aware of them. Right now we are having a very windy day and I can hear the wind hitting each tree around us, individually. When it rains or snows we sometimes can't hear the radio or a video we may be watching. This is reality to us, not an inconvenience. I still want to build the earth-sheltered home but I don't like the idea of losing this connectedness.

“Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position. But certainty is an absurd one.”
― Voltaire

Michael Helmersson

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posted 3 years ago

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Here's a photo showing our door carelessly left open for a bear to walk through. The cookstove is a Waterford Stanley, about 6-700lbs.

3.jpg

“Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position. But certainty is an absurd one.”
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Coydon Wallham

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posted 3 years ago

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What are the factors in choosing fabric for the yurt? I'm in zone 4a. Not interested in anything plastic.

The good websites I've found have mentioned 10z cotton canvas, with 12z as a more durable choice for a long term structure. A site selling bolts I've found also mentions "#12 (11.5oz)" Duck canvas that is "a double fill fabric woven with a "plied yarn" construction". Would this yarn be a different weave of cotton or another source of material?

They also offer a 10oz 'Canvak' canvas as special for tents and tipis, which costs twice the other canvas.

What kind of felt would be appropriate for a yurt?

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Michael Helmersson

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Coydon Wallham wrote:What are the factors in choosing fabric for the yurt? I'm in zone4a. Not interested in anything plastic.

The good websites I've found have mentioned 10z cotton canvas, with 12z as a more durable choice for a long term structure. A site selling bolts I've found also mentions "#12 (11.5oz)" Duck canvas that is "a double fill fabric woven with a "plied yarn" construction". Would this yarn be a different weave of cotton or another source of material?

They also offer a 10oz 'Canvak' canvas as special for tents and tipis, which costs twice the other canvas.

What kind of felt would be appropriate for a yurt?

Our Groovy Yurt has a 12.5 oz canvas. Long ago, I searched the web for suppliers of bulk, natural felt but gave up after becoming annoyed and dizzy. It is not a common commodity in the retail world, so sourcing the amount of felt you'd need for a yurt may be a challenge.
Are you trying to make your own yurt or refurbish an existing one?

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Coydon Wallham

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posted 3 years ago

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Making my own. Was your Canvas all cut and presewn by the Groovy people?

It looks relatively simple to do the wall, just size it for the bolt width allowing for a few inches extra (haven't discerned exactly why yet). The top looks like a lot of sewing for a custom fit. There also seems to be a question of shrinkage...

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Michael Helmersson

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Coydon Wallham wrote:Making my own. Was your Canvas all cut and presewn by the Groovy people?

It looks relatively simple to do the wall, just size it for the bolt width allowing for a few inches extra (haven't discerned exactly why yet). The top looks like a lot of sewing for a custom fit. There also seems to be a question of shrinkage...

Yes, our canvas (and everything else) was purchased ready-to-install. I think building your own yurt will only serve to create a tighter bond between you and your home. In our case, we didn't have the time or the skills to build our own.

“Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position. But certainty is an absurd one.”
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Coydon Wallham

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Michael Helmersson wrote:In our case, we didn't have the time or the skills to build our own.

I don't have those either, but find that tackling challenges with the right methodology usually produces something good regardless.

Was yours a straight 12.5z cotton canvas? Any treatment or special weaves? Pre-shrunk? How long since you put it up?

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Michael Helmersson

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Coydon Wallham wrote:

Michael Helmersson wrote:In our case, we didn't have the time or the skills to build our own.

I don't have those either, but find that tackling challenges with the right methodology usually produces something good regardless.

Was yours a straight 12.5z cotton canvas? Any treatment or special weaves? Pre-shrunk? How long since you put it up?

One layer of 12.5 oz canvas, no waterproofing treatment or any special weaves. CANVAS. As far as pre-shrinking, I assume it was because it didn't shrink in place. We've had this canvas up for 2 years.

“Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position. But certainty is an absurd one.”
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Kate Michaud

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posted 3 years ago

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Hi Michael.

Having a great time reading about your yurt.

I'm in zone 4b Ontario, so there should be no issues come winter. I'm not the one living in the planed yurt though, and you're right about what creature comforts someone is accustomed to is an important factor. I think attitude or perception would also has some relevance, "improvise, adapt, overcome" would be my take on it.

I like the idea of your cold storage with a trap door underneath the yurt, very ingenious. Is the cold storage counter sunk in the ground to any degree?

I'm going to refer this thread to a young couple who are ordering, or may have already ordered their yurt from the same company as yours, and are looking at moving onto my property for the long term.

From your posts here I gleaned some additional info about how it could be set up. The pics are definitely helpful.

Thanks for sharing.

Cheers! K

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Michael Helmersson

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Kate Michaud wrote:Hi Michael.

I like the idea of your cold storage with a trap door underneath the yurt, very ingenious. Is the cold storage counter sunk in the ground to any degree?

Our water table was too high to dig the root cellar down, so we have been building up a berm around whole thing. It's still not complete, but close.

I'm going to refer this thread to a young couple who are ordering, or may have already ordered their yurt from the same company as yours, and are looking at moving onto my property for the long term.

Groovy Yurts was and is fantastic to deal with. Yves, the owner is a genuinely good person and seems to generate a gravitational pull that attracts similar people into his organization. We love our yurt and we love having the Groovy People visit us on their delivery journeys.

“Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position. But certainty is an absurd one.”
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Coydon Wallham

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Michael Helmersson wrote:

Kate Michaud wrote:Hi Michael.

I like the idea of your cold storage with a trap door underneath the yurt, very ingenious. Is the cold storage counter sunk in the ground to any degree?

Our water table was too high to dig the root cellar down, so we have been building up a berm around whole thing. It's still not complete, but close.

Any pics of the root cellar before the yurt went up? How about the trap door in action?

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Michael Helmersson

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Coydon Wallham wrote:
Any pics of the root cellar before the yurt went up? How about the trap door in action?

father-in-law-attaching-bond-beam.jpg

“Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position. But certainty is an absurd one.”
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steven hobert

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posted 1 year ago

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Hello Michael.
We (my partner and I) really appreciated all your helpful information about the Groovy Yurt, yurt life, and the earthbag foundation/cellar. We'd love to ask you some more questions.

Before reading your post we had also come up with the idea of a "root cellar" underneath the yurt but didn't have an idea how to do it in a reasonable amount of time and with no experience. We are also thinking of the "root cellar" being above ground (at least for now) in order to save time and avoid potential water table issues.

And we are also leaning towards buying a 22' Groovy Yurt.

Could you give more details about how the yurt and platform (with insulation etc.) was done?
In your photo it looks like you have one thick beam going across but I assume you put more across to support your floor and wood cookstove etc . . .?

I assume you did not put any posts in the middle to hold up the floor, correct?

I believe you said the top of your floor was two layers of 1/2" plywood and underneath it 8" of styrofoam. How was the styrofoam secured to the plywood? did you have 8" joists between plywood floor and the beams? Was there any material below the styrofoam?

How did you secure the yurt to the foundation/ground?

Do you have a ramp going up to your door? how many feet off of the ground level is your yurt floor?

I'm sure we will think of lots more questions.
Thank you for your time

Michael Helmersson

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steven hobert wrote:Hello Michael.
We (my partner and I) really appreciated all your helpful information about the Groovy Yurt, yurt life, and the earthbag foundation/cellar. We'd love to ask you some more questions.

Before reading your post we had also come up with the idea of a "root cellar" underneath the yurt but didn't have an idea how to do it in a reasonable amount of time and with no experience. We are also thinking of the "root cellar" being above ground (at least for now) in order to save time and avoid potential water table issues.

And we are also leaning towards buying a 22' Groovy Yurt.

Could you give more details about how the yurt and platform (with insulation etc.) was done?
In your photo it looks like you have one thick beam going across but I assume you put more across to support your floor and wood cookstove etc . . .?

I assume you did not put any posts in the middle to hold up the floor, correct?

I believe you said the top of your floor was two layers of 1/2" plywood and underneath it 8" of styrofoam. How was the styrofoam secured to the plywood? did you have 8" joists between plywood floor and the beams? Was there any material below the styrofoam?

How did you secure the yurt to the foundation/ground?

Do you have a ramp going up to your door? how many feet off of the ground level is your yurt floor?

I'm sure we will think of lots more questions.
Thank you for your time

We've built up the ground around the cellar so that there is a gentle slope up to the yurt.

The styrofoam panels we used were 4ft wide with varying lengths and staggered end joints. I laid out 2x10" planks lying flat so that all joints (sides and ends) were supported. On long plank spans, I used posts to provide extra support.

The big beam in the middle is supported by posts in the middle in order to support the weight of our cookstove.

The panels have metal inserts molded in on 24" centers, so these were where I screwed the plywood flooring into.

The yurt is not actually attached to any of this. There is a thin plywood skirt that encircles the circumference of the styrofoam with 4" rising above the level of the flooring. The yurt walls sit inside this skirt to keep it from shifting and slipping off the floor. It's still just a big round tent that can be moved if necessary. It's heavy enough that it is secure in any weather we get.

“Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position. But certainty is an absurd one.”
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steven hobert

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posted 1 year ago

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Thank you for your reply Michael.

Since some of your design / yurt size / etc is similar to what we are thinking, I was wondering how you'd feel about doing a zoom call or phone call of some kind for us to ask you a few more things in depth? If not, no problem but just thought I'd ask

cheers

Eloise Rock

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Location: South Central Alaska Zone 4a/b

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I am thankful to have found this post!

We just purchased land finally, and I just found Groovy Yurts 2 days ago! I'm glad to see they are working well in such a cold climate. We are more in the 4a/b range. We are considering the 6 Wall (22').

Michael, or anyone else living in a Yurt, I would be curious to know what your plumbing situation is? Do you have any running water in the Yurt? Do you use a storage tank? Buckets? You mentioned the sauna for bathing and laundry. Do you do your dishes there too, or in the Yurt?

Also, if you don't mind me asking, I'd be curious what size yurt you have, and what furniture (beds, tables, chairs, shelves, counters etc) you guys have inside. It's always interesting to know what "makes the list" for people.

Finally, how wet is your climate in the non-frozen season? Because the mongolian yurts are designed for a dry climate, I have some degree of hesitation to use one in our "temperate rain forest" here in South Central Alaska. But I know others have done it. If you have made any modifications to accommodate a wetter climate, I would be interested in hearing about them.

Thanks for your time!

-E

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