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Hobbit Home Progress.

Dave Lotte

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posted 3 months ago

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With my last chiropractor appointment behind me, and feeling a heck of alot better - one last day to tinker, then its back to building !
Kinda thought the white l.e.d.s were a bit TOO bright, so ordered some micro red l.e.d.
Damn, these things are tiny - but - they look AWESOME in these mini dragons head - kitchen cabinet - door pulls.
The white l.e.d. is on the left - while the red l.e.d. is about the size of the tip of a pen.

Next time though - have to drill a much smaller hole for the wires.

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Build it because they say you can't.
18 different architect's that said " you can't do that "
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Dave Lotte

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My roof micro clover was dying !!

Waited for that 3 day rain, thinking it was just dried out - nope - browned out even more.

Turns out last year when it grew super fast, and was a lush green roof cover - that it had used up alot of the nutrients in the 8 inches of soil.
After 4 small applications - totaling 3,000 sqft of lawn fertilizer - on a 1,500 sqft roof .... it is bouncing back nicely.
First 3 pics are center of roof day 1, 3 and 6.
Last 3 pics are side of roof day 1, 3 and 6.
Bit of a difference.

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Build it because they say you can't.
18 different architect's that said " you can't do that "
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Hans Quistorff

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Location: Longbranch, WA Mild wet winter dry climate change now hot summer

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posted 3 months ago

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that it had used up a lot of the nutrients in the 8 inches of soil.

Actually it probably was not soil yet. It takes time for dirt to become soil with life in it. also the life in the soil is what hold the water which makes the nutrients available to the plants. You have the plants established to feed the soil life but now you need to plant some soil life. Any compost available? A worm bin is a good addition to your hobbit homestead.

Hans Albert Quistorff, LMT projects on permies Hans Massage Qberry Farm magnet therapy gmail hquistorff

Dave Lotte

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Hans Quistorff wrote:It takes time for dirt to become soil with life in it.

Agreed. The little bit of nutrients that was there - was used up last year. When trying to dig - it is solid and hard.
Could look into adding compost and worms, the roof is engineered for 16 inches of soil, so i could add 8 inches of compost😁
Just kidding. Could add some though.

Build it because they say you can't.
18 different architect's that said " you can't do that "
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Dave Lotte

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Now that the spine is almost healed up and i can move again, time to get er done !

Friday after work - exterior wiring installed.
Saturday - interior wiring installed and i can get it all inspected by the ESA next week.
Sunday - with the approval of the building inspector, installed half the 7 inch foam - moved the rest out of the way, and can now air seal and insulate the front half of the building. Pending the results of the ESA inspection of course.

After that - radiant floor heating pipes !

Thank you Rick, Chris and Tom for the help. Appreciated.

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Build it because they say you can't.
18 different architect's that said " you can't do that "
Google " undergroundandlovinit "

Dave Lotte

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Another 5 hours in, and most of the front of the house is air sealed, ready for foam.
Pail and a half of beads vacuumed.
Have to leave the corner open for wiring inspection.

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Build it because they say you can't.
18 different architect's that said " you can't do that "
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Dave Lotte

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posted 3 months ago

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Very curious, as to what will happen when the new concrete floor goes in.
Not only will it add several tons of mass to the house ( more thermal battery ) but the insulation will complete cover and isolate the 40 degree gravel floor.

Last month it took 3 days for the temperature to change inside the house, but now that the floor is 1/2 insulated (R35) - the nice warm spring days are raising it a degree a day - with the radon fan sucking in warm outside air.

85 % humidity due to the radon gas fan sucking in the rainy moist air from outside - had to plug in the dehumidifier last night.
Second pic is inside old house...

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Build it because they say you can't.
18 different architect's that said " you can't do that "
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Dave Lotte

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Busy weekend .... post #1

My roof is flowering 😁 hope the bumblebees like clover flowers !

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Build it because they say you can't.
18 different architect's that said " you can't do that "
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Dave Lotte

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Busy weekend .... post # 2

In the underground house book, by Rob Roy, he explains that you need to put 1 inch pink foam under the footing - not to equal the rest of the house, but to raise the footing temperature just enough to keep condensation - mold and mildew from forming. Good book, highly recommended.

Since these footings are isolated from the earth, they have always been dry. If I leave sawdust on the footing - it stays dry. Now to test the temperature.

In the pictures, you can see a 6 degree temperature difference, instead of a 16 degree difference if the footing was sitting on 40 degree damp earth.

Bit of a difference.

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Build it because they say you can't.
18 different architect's that said " you can't do that "
Google " undergroundandlovinit "

Dave Lotte

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posted 3 months ago

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Busy weekend post #3

6 hours this weekend - cutting and shaping foam. First job - finish back porch.

Ready for radiant floor heating tubing !

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Build it because they say you can't.
18 different architect's that said " you can't do that "
Google " undergroundandlovinit "

Dave Lotte

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Busy weekend .... post # 4

Saturday - With the back porch done, time to finish the right front corner.
Then on Sunday - cut and shaped all the foam for the left front corner.

After the electrical inspections - I just have to seal the radon gas cover and drop it into place.

Thank you Darren and Rick for the helping hands - yes, it is "only Styrofoam " but 11 feet long and 7 inches thick - consider it like sheets of plywood !

Time to start thinking of purchasing radiant floor heating parts !

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Build it because they say you can't.
18 different architect's that said " you can't do that "
Google " undergroundandlovinit "

Dave Lotte

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posted 3 months ago

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So .... what's on your roof ? 😁

I got bees !

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Build it because they say you can't.
18 different architect's that said " you can't do that "
Google " undergroundandlovinit "

Dave Lotte

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Passed the trench inspection with the E.S.A ( electrical safety authority) - with permission to fill trench.
Radiant floor heating layout has been approved...

Now I can finish sealing the radon gas system, install all the pre-cut foam and install the radiant floor heating !

Had 30 minutes to spare - started marking out interior walls for the heat tubing.

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Build it because they say you can't.
18 different architect's that said " you can't do that "
Google " undergroundandlovinit "

Dave Lotte

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Radon gas system is complete... done .... finished.

Next up, finishing the under slab foam.

Had a bit of spare time, so went up on the roof.... every step I took, I was crushing clover plants.
Time to find the plastic foot path I put up last year. It was overgrown and grown into the clover.

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Build it because they say you can't.
18 different architect's that said " you can't do that "
Google " undergroundandlovinit "

Dave Lotte

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With all the floor Styrofoam laid in place, it's time to mark out the layout of the walls - for the proper heating zones !

Unpacked the 8 position manifold, and opened up the pipe staples. All looks good.

Time to start working on the underfloor water pipes.... too bad I don't have a single coupler in my bag of supplies .... and .... my blow torch doesn't work 😂😂

Something is telling me it's time to call it a day.

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Build it because they say you can't.
18 different architect's that said " you can't do that "
Google " undergroundandlovinit "

Dave Lotte

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Another 6 hour day today, and a bit more done.

With the architect - hopefully making progress on my window wells and front porch drawings - time to get the mini X , down into the front porch area.

First job ? Fill in the 200 amp service trench - making sure to fill half way, then lay in red caution tape - for future diggers to find before hitting the wires. I could then get to where I could dig a ramp the 5 feet down ( it's steeper than it looks ) and while I was there dig a hole and install my front porch drainage pit ( 60 gallon drum - same as the ones in the house ). Looks like another 5 feet down is a solid sand bar. Not going to have to worry about flooding here 😁

Second job - start soldering the water pipes together with the appropriate risers - one set to kitchen - one set to bathroom and one set to the built in aquarium that is currently in the old house. Once these are assembled, I can notch the foam and set them below the radiant floor heat pipes.

When ya run out of 3/4 inch couplers - it's time to rest.

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Build it because they say you can't.
18 different architect's that said " you can't do that "
Google " undergroundandlovinit "

Dave Lotte

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Location: Ontario Canada

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With the longest under slab pipe run soldered together ( mechanical room to kitchen ), time to set it down below the foam, so it does not interfere with the radiant floor heating.
2.5 inches into a 7 inch foam slab - still 4.5 inches of insulation below the water pipes.

Still workin on it....

22 degree temp difference makes for a nice area to work in 😁

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Build it because they say you can't.
18 different architect's that said " you can't do that "
Google " undergroundandlovinit "

Dave Lotte

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Don't do this very often, but time to celebrate! Favorite spot ? North Star Restaurant for a Prime Rib dinner.

The house has just hit 70 degrees F today.
Water pipes are done ! Ready for pressure testing.
Next up pex pipes !

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Build it because they say you can't.
18 different architect's that said " you can't do that "
Google " undergroundandlovinit "

Dave Lotte

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10 hours in this weekend, and its time to pressure test my under slab water lines.
2 hours in, and holding steady at 65 p.s.i no leaks. - as high as my little compressor would go.
Getting a bit frustrated at wasting a week doing these water pipes, until i realized.... the water pipes are DONE.
Once the walls are in, its a short pipe to the kitchen sink - a short pipe to the bathroom sink and toilet - and a short pipe to filling the built in aquarium. 6 or 7 feet to the shower, but that shouldn't take to long.
Water lines are DONE.

Outside is a heat wave - 97 F ( 36 C ) in the shade, inside a cool 73 ( 23 C ), but it should not be that hot inside.
Going to have to watch this one, as the temporary front and back doors are made out of plywood, and if you stand outside, you can feel the cool air leaking through the gaps. Once the concrete floor is in, i can get a proper - high efficiency back door at ( R7 ) and put my ( R50 ) front door back in where it belongs.

I'm loosing my cool ! Literally 😁

Last 2 pictures - cutting the channels for the snow melting system - pex pipe - front and back porch.
Don't want to get snowed in !

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Build it because they say you can't.
18 different architect's that said " you can't do that "
Google " undergroundandlovinit "

Dave Lotte

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posted 2 months ago

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2,200 feet of radiant floor pex pipe is here.
200 feet of 3/4 inch for snow melt feeder pipes ( porches are not in yet )
2,000 feet of 1/2 inch pipe for house heat.

Really looking forward to seeing my heating bill, when i can turn off each room as needed ( or not needed).

Almost time to call in the concrete company !

Temperature update - hobbit home is steadily heating up, according to the thermal camera - at 5 p.m. the front door plywood was 100 F. That will stop once the front door is in place.

Sleeping in 90 F - not fun.

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Build it because they say you can't.
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Dave Lotte

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With the concrete floor pour quickly moving up the list, you will be seeing more and more posts on thermal mass....

For example. Monday, at 5 pm, i went into the hobbit home, and was really disappointed, that the temperature inside the home was 77 F ( 25 C ). Keeping in mind, that the hot sun was shining on the front door plywood - which was close to 100 F ( 37 C ) AND i had the dehumidifier running ( also heating the building ) humidity was sitting at 54 %.
Not much i could do about it, so i pulled the plug on the dehumidifier - and left.

Today, Wednesday, went out first thing in the morning 5am , and it was sitting at 73 F ( 23 C ) and 70 % humidity.

Turns out - the dehumidifier and the hot front door heated up the AIR in the main room, but not the MASS of the walls. Even over the 5 hours of full sun - once you take away the heat source - the 100 tons of MASS of cool concrete naturally absorbs the heat - cooling off the AIR in rooms back down to the temperature of the walls - which - so far - is still at 73 F ( 23 C ).

Thermal mass - takes alot of energy to heat up or cool off. Welcome to my science experiment aint it cool 😁😉

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Build it because they say you can't.
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Jay Angler

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Dave Lotte wrote: AND i had the dehumidifier running ( also heating the building ) humidity was sitting at 54 %...

Thermal mass - takes a lot of energy to heat up or cool off. Welcome to my science experiment aint it cool 😁😉

And this is pointing out an important underlying issue:
Thermal mass makes the overall temperature stability of a home much easier to manage.
But without good planning, indoor air quality and humidity become big issues.

Some "mass" is reported to absorb and release moisture, helping to maintain a healthy and comfortable humidity level. A quick search had a company suggesting 30 to 40% humidity feels good - maybe in some climates, but personally, 30 is low for me, and I'm happy 40 to 50%. I recall that too much humidity was an issue at least for a while in one of the WOFATIs at Wheaton Lab, and I'm not sure if that's resolved over time.

I think many people have been quick to focus on temperature in underground and other homes, but possibly not as thorough at testing *all* the factors of a healthy home - particularly humidity levels and air quality.

Which is why I am following this thread! Waiting to see how it all works out. Hopefully the reports will be updated monthly for a good 2 years after building is complete? I bet you could even do cool charts at the end to show what's working, what needs some tweaking, and what your experiences have been actually living in the home.

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Dave Lotte

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Jay Angler wrote:
Which is why I am following this thread! Waiting to see how it all works out. Hopefully the reports will be updated monthly for a good 2 years after building is complete? I bet you could even do cool charts at the end to show what's working, what needs some tweaking, and what your experiences have been actually living in the home.

Not sure what to expect either...
Will be posting temp and humidity with updates as i go, and i still have wiring, plumbing, decorating 😁😁

Build it because they say you can't.
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Dave Lotte

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2 hours Friday- 6 hours Saturday. Snow melt tubes are installed and insulated to exterior doors - ready for the porches.
Started the 1,000 foot role - back porch is done !
Don't that look perdy 😁

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Build it because they say you can't.
18 different architect's that said " you can't do that "
Google " undergroundandlovinit "

Hans Quistorff

gardener

Posts: 1967

Location: Longbranch, WA Mild wet winter dry climate change now hot summer

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Humidity and smell of curing concrete was a problem when we moved in right after construction in northern Maine.

Hans Albert Quistorff, LMT projects on permies Hans Massage Qberry Farm magnet therapy gmail hquistorff

Dave Lotte

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Quick mini lesson in radiant floor heating ....
If a room has only one radiant loop in it, it is called a circuit.
If a room has more than one radiant loop in it, it is called a zone.

For my project, almost every room has its own circuit, except the front part of the house, which has 3 circuits- making up one zone .... clear as mud ?

Since each room will have its own thermostat - including the 1 zone in the front of the house - i need a 6 zone controller. Turn each room on or off as needed.

Bedroom
Den
Porch
Bathroom
Living room
Front of house

The parts have arrived, now comes the fun part ! Wiring it together to see if it works !

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Build it because they say you can't.
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Dave Lotte

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Update on pressure test for under slab water pipes.... PASS.

No repairs, patches or leaks - 6 days at 65 p.s.i - good enough.

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Build it because they say you can't.
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Jay Angler

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Call me a luddite if you want, but I'd want a back-up series of shut-off valves to control the temperature to each zone with when the fancy electronics decides it doesn't like my magnetic resonance and goes all weird on me...

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Dave Lotte

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Another 6 hours in with burning arms and weak fingers, i am done for this weekend.

With 2 full rolls of 1,000 feet, you have to measure which loop to do on which roll, ( see picture ). For this roll, it was circuit 1,2,4 and 5 totaling 999 feet. I was trying to get all 4 done, but - nope - not gonna happen this weekend.

Details :

Roughly 734 feet of pipe installed.
Close to 650 - 2 inch staples inserted - by hand - spaced as needed.

Definitely time for a rest.

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Build it because they say you can't.
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Dave Lotte

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Jay Angler wrote: I'd want a back-up series of shut-off valves to control the temperature to each zone with when....

No problems.
Apparently each actuator ( on and off thingie 😁 ) pops off easily. If i keep the manual twist knobs handy and have no heat, pop em off and screw on the handles.

Good point though.

Build it because they say you can't.
18 different architect's that said " you can't do that "
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Dave Lotte

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Location: Ontario Canada

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posted 2 months ago

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Hans Quistorff wrote:Humidity and smell of curing concrete was a problem ....

I was wondering that as well. Through all steps of this process, it has smelled like fresh cut lumber. We will have to see what the new concrete floor does to the house.

Build it because they say you can't.
18 different architect's that said " you can't do that "
Google " undergroundandlovinit "

Dave Lotte

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Posts: 456

Location: Ontario Canada

114

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posted 2 months ago

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Day off from pipes, but i can still tinker !

Wanted to see how my heating control system will work, and, after reading and re-reading the instructions for all 3 units, decided to wire it up.

Very easy to install the actuator, screw off the white cap, screw on the grey ring and snap it on.

After taking it out to the Hobbit Home and setting it up, wanted to see if it actually worked - put a 1/2" tube to the outlet and did a blower test. Turns it off and on just like it should.

Hooked up the multimeter, and the 120V pump connection comes on as well.

Even better ? The existing thermostat in the old house is a 24 V as well. I can use it when i move !

Heating system controls are good to go !

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Build it because they say you can't.
18 different architect's that said " you can't do that "
Google " undergroundandlovinit "

Dave Lotte

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Posts: 456

Location: Ontario Canada

114

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posted 2 months ago

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7 hours in and its time to call it a weekend. When it hurts to crawl across STYROFOAM its time to quit.

For all those "regular" houses out there, the thermostat in the first picture was sitting in direct sunlight at 10 a.m. this morning. By noon a regular houses roof would be far above 120 F ( 49 C ). - hot enough to fry an egg.

Started the day by finishing circuit #4 - the last of the first 1,000 foot role. Turns out, i have about 52 feet of 1/2 inch tube left over - thanks to the p.e.x. company numbering every foot of pipe !
After starting in on the second 1,000 foot role of p.e.x., onto circuit 5 and circuit 6 - i still have to finish stapling some of circuit 6.

6 out of the 8 circuits are installed and connected !

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Build it because they say you can't.
18 different architect's that said " you can't do that "
Google " undergroundandlovinit "

Dave Lotte

pollinator

Posts: 456

Location: Ontario Canada

114

I like...

posted 2 months ago

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Pipe wrap sleeve finally arrived !

All under floor water pipes are now sleeved, insulated and protected from the concrete.

Now to finish the last 2 radiant circuits, and then pressure test the entire system up to 60 p.s.i. !

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Build it because they say you can't.
18 different architect's that said " you can't do that "
Google " undergroundandlovinit "

Dave Lotte

pollinator

Posts: 456

Location: Ontario Canada

114

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posted 2 months ago

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14 hours in this weekend, and all i have are these 3 dials....

1. All radiant floor is in. Holding at 60 p.s.i ✔
2. Water pipes have to hold 100 p.s.i ✔
3. Still need to install snow melt for front porch, but - snow melt is holding at 50 p.s.i ✔

Just kidding.

Building inspection. PASS ✔

Concrete next.

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Build it because they say you can't.
18 different architect's that said " you can't do that "
Google " undergroundandlovinit "

Dave Lotte

pollinator

Posts: 456

Location: Ontario Canada

114

I like...

posted 2 months ago

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Not going to miss this !

Temp drop 12 degrees overnight outside.

Over 8 hours :

The old house dropped 3.4 degrees F ( 1.9 C )

The Hobbit Home? With only plywood doors ? Dropped .7 F ( .4 C )

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Build it because they say you can't.
18 different architect's that said " you can't do that "
Google " undergroundandlovinit "

Dave Lotte

pollinator

Posts: 456

Location: Ontario Canada

114

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posted 1 month ago

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Time to celebrate !

14 cubic meters of concrete floor put in the Hobbit Home.
74,000 pounds of extra mass added to my thermal battery.

Time to start shopping for 2x4's

Before and after shots. Don't that look perdy 😁

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Build it because they say you can't.
18 different architect's that said " you can't do that "
Google " undergroundandlovinit "

Dave Lotte

pollinator

Posts: 456

Location: Ontario Canada

114

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posted 1 month ago

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Noticed that the concrete guys had knocked over the light in my window.
5 hours after the pour, i opened up the front door ( did not want to walk in the back way ), and was hit with a blast of HOT air.

Did not know that concrete has an exothermic reaction - meaning it creates heat as it cures.

I do now ! At one point - it was 99 % humidity up too 91 F.

Was going to leave it closed in for a few days, to let the floor cure "properly", but since there are varying opinions on how long to leave it for, I have to decide to either let it sit and cure a bit or have mold start growing in my new house.

Going to open the windows and ventilate after the minimum 24 hours.

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Build it because they say you can't.
18 different architect's that said " you can't do that "
Google " undergroundandlovinit "