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Hobbit Home Progress.

Dave Lotte

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posted 2 years ago

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Not sure if this is allowed, but i thought i would share....

Had to get my engineer for the Hobbit Home to come out and grade the wood for the home, since it is Eastern White Pine, the Ontario Lumber Association says its too weak - cant use it for building.

Started talking to him about how all these different people want me to use rammed earth, or some other alternative building practice, and how i had to get it by the local building inspector....

He then went on to explain that he has written a book on the subject, and is more than willing to help engineer and approve a project using these methods.

I already have my plans drawn up and approved, so i am not changing them, but i guess the options are there - if you get the right engineer.

Here is the link to his book, if your interested...

https://newsociety.ca/books/e/essential-rammed-earth-construction?_ga=2.42436832.498285239.1652365008-651112358.1652365008&sitedomain=ca

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Dave Lotte

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posted 2 years ago

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65 - 8x8 beams are now alot closer to home. 13,000 lbs.

Planks need too dry another month before tongue and grooving...

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Dave Lotte

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Beams are in storage.

Stored inside, out of the sun, so hopefully, this is the colour my ceiling will be.

Planks should be done in another few weeks.

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John C Daley

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posted 2 years ago

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Impressive!

John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
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Fae Right

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posted 2 years ago

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I LOVE your pics and the adornments!

Dave Lotte

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Fae Right wrote:I LOVE your pics and the adornments!

Thank you !

This should be a funky looking house when i get it done. Kinda worried about the window pass through though, ( part that goes through the wall ) as i only made it 18 or 19 inches deep, and the concrete wall is 8 plus the steel front wall panels are 10 inchs - for a total of 18 inches.... but i gotta have the R42 insulation 😁

First pic..... what the front of the house will look like - imagine clean white steel wall with a green grass front yard and roof. White steel front door.

Second pic and third pic. .. front door stuff. 3d printed dragon head door knocker and solid cast aluminum "sting" swords from l.o.t.r.

Pictures of home made 26 inch round window with home made stained glass.

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Build it because they say you can't.
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Dave Lotte

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posted 2 years ago

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Last night, i finally got around to hooking up the sword lights and the dragons eyes together.

I think it is a bit too much, so i disconnected the swords. Now it is just the dragons eyes.

Opinions ?

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Dave Lotte

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posted 2 years ago

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Well, it is official.

Concrete has been canceled for this year. Will post updates as i go, aiming for a new company for 1st of May next year.

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Richard Henry

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Dave - The delay may have a silver lining. If you are pouring any concrete that will be exposed to high heat from the sun, it should be poured in the warmest time of the year so that it will not expand in the future. I have seen concrete road blocks pop up 6 inches in a hot period because the contractor poured in a cooler month. Played merry 'ell with an 18 wheeler doing the speed limit.

I learned that trick from a structural engineer who built his own home in Pass Christian, MS. After Katrina came through, his home was the only building left standing for over two miles along the shore and a thousand feet inland.

Dave Lotte

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Richard Henry wrote:Dave - The delay may have a silver lining....

Agreed.

There are advantages too be had here...

1. The lumber was cut green, storing over winter indoors, it will loose 50% of its weight in water.
2. The hole is all dug out, survey pins are in place, it is ready to go right on the 1st of May, no extra delays or waiting.
3. Save more money. - an extra 10 months to earn $$ is never a bad thing.

Edit : since the wood will be drier, i only have to worry about the 600 or so gallons of water in the concrete to dry out...

As for the time of year or temperature fluctuations that should not be an issue. That is the beauty of earth sheltered homes.... not only is it under 12 inches of cool dirt out of the sun, but the concrete is protected by R40 insulation around the entire structure. Don't think it will be an issue, but worth noting.

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John C Daley

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There is usually never an issue of concrete drying at any time.
I suppose you just need to have the contractors lined up.
Is your driveway good enough for a concrete truck to get there?
Sometimes they will not attend if it looks and is boggy.

Dave Lotte

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John C Daley wrote: Is your driveway good enough for a concrete truck to get there?
Sometimes they will not attend if it looks and is boggy.

Building in a gravel pit. No mud.
Building right at the road - no laneway - if they cant reach in 15 feet, somethings wrong...😁😁

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Build it because they say you can't.
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John C Daley

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We sometimes have the truck enter the formwork and it eliminates the need for a concrete pump.
Then we lift the reo sheet and fit the chairs when the truck has moved out.

Dave Lotte

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Moved the insulated panels out of "the pit", now stored indoors with the beams....

Still waiting on the planks too dry.

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Build it because they say you can't.
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Leif Ing

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Jay Angler wrote:How do the ones on submarines work?

Do they use one system exclusively, or both systems? (interior vs exterior pivot is what I mean by "systems")

The round doors on submarines are made out of 2” thick HY-80 steel I believe, same as the pressure hull. At least on nuclear U.S. subs. Maybe the Russians use titanium for their doors… but, they are about 4’ diameter on Ohio class boats and weigh I think about 600#. Getting caught between one and the bulkhead at periscope depth in rough seas would be very bad news, maybe fatal.

Great project though and enjoying the read and troubleshooting going on!

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Leif Ing

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Dave, can understand the frustration you may be feeling with delays. We started a house in Missouri this year, and the planned start date moved due to weather delays from March to finally started in mid to late July! Had $50,000 worth of wood, doors and windows, batteries and inverters, etc. stored in my tractor shed for a couple months! Thankfully the trusses and ICF forms, the builders/suppliers kept for a couple months at their place.

Now, almost $100,000 in and the roof is on, interior walls are getting built and stood this week, and money is going out fast and getting fairly low… and the bank said they won’t finance a construction loan since we only had $25k instead of $80k left in the bank! 🤪

So, back to my preferred plan B and going to have it liveable with heat, potable water, sewer and some electric for the winter and quit until late spring. Time to pay down credit cards back to zero and stack cash to finish it next year. At least the wife and kids will be warmer and safer this winter than that old doublewide trailer!

Hang in there, delays happen for a reason I believe, as the Lord’s timing is so much better than ours! I feel I dodged a bullet by NOT getting financing after reflecting on it. The house will be built mostly cash and then back to just paying on the land and having utilities be less than 1/3 of what they were in the trailer. Good luck and will keep following your journey, please keep posting updates as they happen.

Leif

Dave Lotte

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Sitting at home, on a Saturday, wondering... what else can i be doing while i await the concrete pour....
Then i find out that the GOOD concrete contractors will not pour concrete over large rocks or stones since it tends to leave gaps , voids and weak spots in the concrete.
Since i was concerned about having too work on the home myself with all that loose rock and gravel laying around, its time to do some site work !

After 5 hours of rock picking and raking, i am feeling more positive and can see some progress on the site.

Time for a rest.

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Build it because they say you can't.
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Dave Lotte

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Leif Ing wrote:

The round doors on submarines are made out of 2” thick HY-80 steel...

Looks like the round door will be moved up onto the short list.
Once the walls are poured and it is backfilled, the next step is to finish the interior - and the easiest way to the interior - is the front door.
Problem is, i will have to set up the welder in the back room ( with ventilation ) too make the hinges and door braces - since 2 of the 10 inch thick panels are centered on the front of the house, i will have to make up round custom made decorative brackets and mount them, BEFORE i cut the round door out or else the panels will spring apart...

I can hardly wait 😁😁😁 !!!

Build it because they say you can't.
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John C Daley

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So when is concrete day?

Dave Lotte

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John C Daley wrote:So when is concrete day?

Aiming for the 1st of May next year.

Building it all myself, so i am giving myself lots of time ( and warm weather ) to get it done.

Build it because they say you can't.
18 different architect's that said " you can't do that "
Google " undergroundandlovinit "

Dave Lotte

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Rock picking is all done !

At least i don't have to worry about anyone twisting an ankle ...

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Build it because they say you can't.
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John C Daley

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Now you need to think of a use for those rocks!

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John C Daley wrote:Now you need to think of a use for those rocks!

cobblestone path?

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John C Daley

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So you are heading into winter and no concrete until May next year?
What do the concrete gangs do when its down time?

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John C Daley wrote:Now you need to think of a use for those rocks!

We've got a thread with some awesome ideas: Permaculture Rocks!

How Permies works: https://permies.com/wiki/34193/permies-works-links-threads
My projects on Skye: The tree field, Growing and landracing, perennial polycultures, "Don't dream it - be it! "

Dave Lotte

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John C Daley wrote:So you are heading into winter and no concrete until May next year?
What do the concrete gangs do when its down time?

Since the first concrete guy squandered the first 4 months of the summer, time that could have been used putting the roof on the house - there is no choice but too cancel for this year, and restart next year.
Building inspector says it's o.k., as delays do happen - and he is well aware of the problems i am facing with no concrete. He is monitoring Daves Hobbit Home Build on Facebook as well. 😁

They do pour concrete in the winter time - indoor slabs - insulated slabs - concrete with anti-freeze additives...

Once i get the insulated shell of the Hobbit Home up and heated, i can pour the interior concrete floor any time of the year. - but then that would be dependent on cash - not time. 😁

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Dave Lotte

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Nancy Reading wrote:

John C Daley wrote:Now you need to think of a use for those rocks!

We've got a thread with some awesome ideas: Permaculture Rocks!

Had enough fun and joy and handling them the first time...
Getting buried where they are 😁.

Build it because they say you can't.
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Dave Lotte

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And .... the planks are home, in storage.

4,000 linear feet of tounge and grooved 2x6 planks for the roof.

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Richard Henry

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"Still looking at hinge options, with the possibility of home made bearing supported hinges, but, keep in mind that the ENTIRE 46 inch wide x 10 foot long panel only weights about 110 lbs total, a 7 foot round door cut out of the same material, should be less than 100 lbs. - wood trim framing not included of course."

Dave:
While this is not a heavy door, you need to remember the concept of leverage (otherwise known as moment or horizontal force). Hinges hold at a right angle which means the weight of the door has to be considered over the entire width with the same mass at 7 feet away producing far more leverage than the same mass right next to the hinges. If hinges are placed perfectly, then the force needed to hold a door is split in half. Perfection is often rare which means each hinge should be able to carry the entire vertical of the door in addition to any moment of force due to the offset nature of hinges. The farther the center of gravity (CG) is from the hinges the greater the moment. The farther apart the hinges are, the lower the moment. Only two hinges are discussed since the forces are essentially on only the upper and lower loaded hinges with the center hinge providing anchoring force only. If the center hinge happens to take load, the forces will increase since now the distance between the tension load and the compression load is less.

Long story short, If you use hinges that can handle the entire load for the system, they are less likely to bend or fail. Watch the fasteners holding the hinges on as well since they will crystalize under heavy loads and fail as the failure plane builds over time. Most failure will occur at the point where the threads stop on the screw shank as that is where stress will produce the greatest crystallization in metal. It will be very hard to know when failure will occur from outside observation. Remember that there is more force than just the load of a door, there is the horizontal moment force created by the fact the CG is away from the hinges added to the system.

I hope to see your project completed soon. I live in Upstate NY and Ontario would be a decent day trip. Of course I will have to get a new driver's license to pass through the border.

Dave Lotte

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Richard Henry wrote:
While this is not a heavy door, you need to remember the concept of leverage (otherwise known as moment or horizontal force).

Agreed. There is alot to consider when building one of these doors.
One of the options i am considering, is too have a solid, welded frame, anchoured to the interior concrete wall, with a tubular design holding a set of bearings for each hinge ( top and bottom). Just need to keep an insulated space between interior and exterior, to take advantage of the R40 front door - which adds one more level of challenge.
Lots of ideas, just no walls - yet !

I love having a welder. May have to get a plasma cutter as well just for the front door. 😁

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John C Daley

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I want to throw caution to the wind, and just a redesign of the whole door!!
Do you really need a 7 wide door opening?
What about having the 7 ft round door, with a hinge point based on a pole set say 2 ft from one side, so the door will open around the pole,
giving you a good width to walk through with out the inherent problems of the hinges you have been discussing.
The seals would be easier as well.
In fact with some clever work both sides of the door could appear circular, but offset say 6 inches which would help with the sealing, since the door would naturally be
stopped by the offset faces.

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Then i find out that the GOOD concrete contractors will not pour concrete over large rocks or stones since it tends to leave gaps , voids and weak spots in the concrete.

Yes we learned that when making sea walls with beach sand and gravel. This would not be permissible in a rapped pour but mixer by mixer we would press the stones into the poured concrete making sure they were completely coated. If the tensile strength is not critical it saves a lot of cement.
Buried as a group the voids are valuable as a water sink for snow melt and large rain events if you want to incorporate them into ypur permaculture plan.

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John C Daley

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I have also used bottles and cans to create voids.

Richard Henry

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Dave: I hope you are joking about using a plasma cutter on a door with foam behind metal. The foam would melt faster than the metal would cut. If you want a decent circular cutter, consider a battery-powered hand grinder. Most come with a threaded side handle. Set a bolt in the center of the proposed circle, use a stiff, straight piece of wood or metal and connect the grinder to it using the threaded handle insert. If set exactly at your proposed diameter, the cut should be nearly perfect and then the foam can be cut using a hot wire for a clean cut. Since the wire can be angled to the rear (is the back side metal or foam?) to provide the correct smooth surface for matching the jamb. If this work is completed while the entire door and jamb assembly is horizontal on the porch, alignment will be easier. I wrote a reply that disappeared into cyberspace where I postulated that cutting and assembling the door and jamb as a unit would be easier and then the entire assembly could be lifted into place into the wall as wished. If you want more definition on my thoughts, just ask, I will try to draw out the process, now if only I can figure out how to get my drawings into the thread, that would be an improvement.

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I love this!
One of the potential projects for the PTJ happens to be a round door contruction. Perfect for a hobbit home.
We are taking votes, so be sure to vote for it here: https://permies.com/t/206625/project-vote?t=uhbw
and don't forget, the PTJ is on super earlybird (more than 50% discount) for a limited time: PTJ Earlybird Tickets

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Hans Quistorff

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My design opens outward and only the door knob in the center is visible. The compound hinge pivots in 2 places. Near the edge of the door far enough in so that the top and bottom can open through the doorway and at the center of the door. The hinge would be a pipe rectangle that pivots on a pipe from floor to ceiling and the one on the center of the door. The one on the center of the door has across T in the center extending through the center of the door for the door knob on the outside and one on the inside. The latch bolt is in the center pipe and is heavier on the bottom than the top so that as it drops it pushes the top one up. the rods for the bolts are attached to the shaft at the ends of a short horizontal bar so that when it turns it lifts bottom bolt and pulls down the top one.
A cone shaped door then could be pulled straight out like a cork in a bottle and pivoted so the opposite edge of the door is against the hinge. It would not swing back against the wall but more than 90*.
You could make a light weight one for your current shed door to see how it works.

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Dave Lotte

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John C Daley wrote:I want to throw caution to the wind, and just a redesign of the whole door!!

😁😁😁
I will let you throw caution to the wind, me i will stick with the plan.
😁😁😁

There is nothing stopping you from putting your design in your house... as per the building inspector - once the header beam is in to support the weight of the structure, you can put in whatever door you want...
😁😁😁

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Dave Lotte

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Richard Henry wrote:Dave: I hope you are joking about using a plasma cutter on a door with foam behind metal.

Miss-understanding.

I need the plasma cutter to help with the custom round designs i want to make that are mounted ON BOTH SIDES of the door.
The front wall panels are going to be mounted and compressed together on the front of the house, i will then trace the outline of the door - without cutting - mount the custom made / designed steel supports / brackets / thingies - THEN the round door will be cut out ( while the 2 halves are being held under compression ).
The plan is that having the steel designs bolted through and mounted on both sides of the door, will keep it compressed together.

Thats the plan anyways ... subject to change of course. 😁

Build it because they say you can't.
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Dave Lotte

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Richard Henry wrote:Dave: (is the back side metal or foam?)

Posted pictures of the actual foam panels i am using for the front of the house, white steel on both sides, 10 inch foam inbetween.

We have the same general idea of how to go about it, of course - subject to change when it is sitting in front of you 😁.

Build it because they say you can't.
18 different architect's that said " you can't do that "
Google " undergroundandlovinit "

Dave Lotte

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Posts: 381

Location: Ontario Canada

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posted 2 years ago

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Hans Quistorff wrote:My design opens outward and only the door knob in the center is visible. The compound hinge pivots in 2 places. Near the edge of the door far enough in so that the top and bottom can open through the doorway and at the center of the door.

For the hinges, it sounds like something i am leaning towards. Although, with my design, it will be tubular round steel, the entire unit about 3 feet long, thrust bearings at each end to make a smooth easy to open door - with the entire thing firmly lag bolted into a nearby concrete wall.

The door knob is something else entirely...

Build it because they say you can't.
18 different architect's that said " you can't do that "
Google " undergroundandlovinit "

So you made a portal in time and started grabbing people. This tiny ad thinks that's rude:

the permaculture bootcamp in winter (plus half-assed holidays)

https://permies.com/t/149839/permaculture-projects/permaculture-bootcamp-winter-assed-holidays