The main problem I am finding is that there are mandatory codes/permits that will be necessary for any type of project I plan on doing.
My question is. Does anyone know of any counties that would be well suited for this type of pursuit? A county or state that has no "mandatory" permits/codes, I would like to purchase land and do with it as I wish. Any help would be greatly appreciated. For some reason I thought we lived in the Land of the free..but as someone more famous than myself said, "Everything I want to do is illegal"
Another option is to find a poor rural county that has codes but lacks the resources to drive around seeing if anyone is building anything. Then you just have to stay on good terms with your neighbors.
Personally, if you have any moral or ethical fiber in you, you will build something that is safe for you and others and safe for the environment. To me what is better a alternatively built home that is safe and efficient or hauling in an old single wide and having the property covered in trash? Ok, the single wide is what most counties are used to. You may have to take the time to have a plan and do your research in how you want to build and educate and share information with your building department. What ever you do you need to approach the county as a partner rather than an adversary. Also you need to be in an area that you mesh with. Where we live it is rural and the attitude is live and let live, but it I would have done some of the things we have done in the suburbs we would have never succeeded. In the purist sense the codes are not that hard to follow, but they are written for the typical methods of construction. There is sound logic between separating your water source from you waste disposal. If you are off grid you want use the propper gauge wire and good grounding so that you either don't burn down you structures or kill someone. The issue is; does your local building inspector know or inspect off grid systems? You may need to do some education and hand holding; and this is easier if your relationship with them is friendly rather than adversarial.
I did not ask for the things that the county/state/federal offers. They are provided, and then I am expected to pay for them via taxation..Doesn't make sense in my book. For those who enjoy such things as paved roads and government interference, that is their choice and they should be the ones paying for them. I would be more than willing to drive on dirt roads if necessary. Or home school my child if and when we decide to have one.
I'm building with cob in a rural county with only one building inspector. My first line of defense is not being noticed, because I'm remote and off-grid. My second line of defense is that non-residential structures under 200 square feet are exempt. This kind of exemption is common. So if I keep everything under 200 square feet, I could haul a trailer up there and plausibly declare that the residential structure.
The system is beyond repair at this point. The majority of people are classified as either "Right wing nut jobs" or "Left wing liberal tree hugging hippies" When both are fighting for control of the minority.
Politics aside...Maybe a owner financed property is the way to go. Something that is already built up to get our feet wet. We are both young (Both 25) Ideally if we could find an older couple that has half the property established, but unable to do the work but were still able to teach us the fine details things would be perfect.
In this day and age, it is hard to trust someone though. Understandably the passing on of knowledge requires one to join some sort of politically oriented "radical militia group", or "spiritually awakened commune" which is really sad.
Oh well, the search continues.
While I agree with the ideal of 'leave me the hell alone' I don't know where in the world your going to find a government to do that. You really need a time-travel machine - go so far back in time the powers in charge don't have the resources to mess with you. Sigh, but that time has passed I think.
That not being an option let's look at some others.
If your grey water doesn't leave the confines of your building, say in the case of a built in/on green house cleaning and recycling the grey water, then you do not need a grey water permit in most states - Yipppeee!
You'll most like still have to pay for a alternative-septic permit, but after they see the expensive composting toilet in the box and sign off, send it back (30 day return for items ordered via the mail, on-line or by phone!
Many states still have outhouse permits, which they will except as your only facility, while you create the bathroom you really want in your house. Just don't invite them in (you don't have to legally you know).
Don't want to mess with no code for cob, build a pole building to support the roof load, and what you fill the walls in with can be negotiated in many states.
Many states have green roof provisions, so there you go.
Many have permits for cabins - no plumbing nor electricity, and no year round occupancy. However many will not check occupancy if they are off the beaten path (they can't imagine people living like that). Later on you can change the permit status should you feel big brother is closing in.
In my opinion the best thing you can do is find the land and make friends with one of the engineers in the building department. Then find ways to work around the codes.
I totally get that this goes against your principles, for that I'm sorry, but sometimes you just have to beat big-brother at his own game and let that be your satisfaction, if you know what I mean.
The main problem I am finding is that there are mandatory codes/permits that will be necessary for any type of project I plan on doing.
what sort of projects are you thinking of?
Also anytime I decided to get a wild hair up my....I would rather not have to wait weeks or months for approval.
I was reading in that county they required a permit for pond digging over X amount of yards. Since I do not own heavy equipment the idea was to do it the old fashioned way. Since this land is semi-desert I would assume building swales would be similar as the pond situation in regards to a permit.
Sometimes it's easier to just feign ignorance and beg forgiveness than do your homework and ask permission.
So along with feign ignorance I would offer different goals should you be asked - like say your creating the best planting beds around, say that they save blah blah water each year - explain you have to bury woody material on the ridge where you want your wind break (or orchard, or whatever). Say the ditches will be your walkway and the source for your soil to mound for your plant beds - swales? What swales?
Remember along with noisy neighbors you have to consider how things look from the air. When you make that pond do it under the cover of trees.
Also research your rights! Many people have kept inspectors off their property legally - it will require a learning curve, but it just might be worth it Put the work, and money off on them for a change.
My advice - DON'T be confrontational. Explain you goals in broad terms and ask how you would go about accomplishing them. You will typically be required to work with multiple depts so if you find an impass with one, go to the another before abandoning the dream.
Keep in mind you are dealing with imperfect beings with varying degrees of competence and people skills. The bureaucracy is nebulous which can sometimes work to your advantage.
Also, government is ALWAYS looking for new sources of revenue. I've found some of my best allies were in the assessors office when it came to getting non-typical building permits through.
In most cases rural counties are FAR easier to work with. Conversely the bigger the city the more layers of guberment you'll have to deal with and the more likely you'll have to deal with folks that wouldn't have a job if it weren't for their union.
I would try to work with the system. Not doing so is not a sound long term strategy. Abandon the idea that you can really OWN the land. You merely rent it (in the form of taxes) from the government until they decide they have another use for it.
The only problems might be if you were to try to develop wetlands into some sort of housing project..but otherwise they don't bother you here.
I have put food forests all over our property as well as digging our own pond..no permits needed for other than building your house and septic field...you'll find those everywhere though..very non restrictive here.
they actually encourage you to develop your property into food forests..
As far as building permits go, the only people they benefit are big developers and the politicians whose campaigns they fund. Here in the Northeast it is the worst. Everyone used to have a pond and ponds were actually encouraged as a good environmental thing. Today, you want a (real, not a Koi pond) pond? Forget about it – you’ll destroy some wetland that is 300 miles from here (no joke). You want to live off-grid in a cob house? Jump through hoops. But, you want to tear down 500 acres of pristine forest, build shoddy “luxury” condos and put in a bunch of chlorinated swimming pools? No problem!
Your best bet is to get a large piece of land WAY off the beaten path, get a permit for a cabin or small timberframe, build it near the road and call it your “house.” Then after the inspector leaves, build your McMansion Earthship deep in the woods and they’ll never know. The point about the view from the air is a serious problem though – that was not the case 20 years ago. Google Earth is your worst enemy today.
Now, I cannot believe that you actually need a permit for a greywater system! That’s insane! But then again, there was a little town in Upstate, NY that was forced to spend millions converting from septic to a sewer system just because NYC controls the whole state now. It was so stupid, it was a town of less than 100 houses, in a rural area, and the state prevented the homeowners from replacing old septic systems, so they began contaminating the river and the state forced them to increase taxes to pay for a high-tech up-hill sewage system. The homeowners (mostly retired people) had no choice because they were banned from selling their properties to new owners without “new” septic systems. So, after this new sewer system was installed, guess where all the “treated” sludge gets dumped? Into that very same river! No joke!
My aunt lives in Maine, and she is uber-liberal; she actually thinks taxes are too low! But a few years ago she got so pissed off because a guy from Boston showed up on her property and started measuring her house for a tax survey. She was furious because he was a Bostonian, not a Mainer, but the point is that even in rural Maine (well, it is actually very built up now, but her road still has no cable access) they will trespass on your property just so they can tax you more. He did ask what was inside, but she refused to answer – NEVER let any government person into your house – it is actually illegal for them to even ask. While your house is under construction though, the inspector can come whenever he/she wants.
My biggest problem with what happened to my aunt was that when a house is measured from the outside they tax you on that square footage – assuming it is regular 2x4 / 2x6 construction. The big problem with this is if you have 24” thick walls your actual living space (what taxes are supposed to be based on) is a lot smaller. This is one reason I am a fan of bermed / underground houses.
In Vermont permits are not too bad, YET. You used to be able to build whatever you wanted, no questions asked. My brother used to live in a cabin on a steep road and in that area permits were not required, but just 30 minutes away, on / near Killington, forget about it. Even in Burlington organic farmers are now being prevented from composting if the piles get too large (it must be processed by a waste management company). The Vermont Right to Farm law is very good, but even now yuppies from NYC / Boston are taking over and successfully challenging farming activities. So, make sure your land is surrounded by locals who respect farming / (sustainable) logging / hunting. City Slickers are offended by everything and will sue in no time flat.
For example, in rural, northwestern KS you need to have your septic system inspected and that's it. Your house can fall down around your ears and no one will say anything, but don't you dare poison the ground water.
In southwestern NE, directly north of us, you can't build within x feet of the river, and your electrical has be inspected.
The Dakotas are similarly "strict," at least in the western counties.
I'm also looking for a spot in the country where building permits are either non-existent or affordable. I think there are two groups of people who seek the same: one simply doesn't want any government interference in the way they choose to live and the other simply cannot afford the extortionate fees that many counties charge. Here in Southern California, you cannot stick a spade in the ground unless you have greased palms to the tune of about $40,000 for a typical single family home. I am not exaggerating. Some places are worse than others, but it truly is extortion and I refuse to play that game. If a county in rural Texas only wants $25 for a septic Permit, I am happy to pay that. But not $5,000.
I have no intention of building something that is an eyesore or unsafe, but I truly believe that building some kind of affordable shelter on your own land ought to be a basic human right that trumps your neighbor's desire for conformity or their perceived property values. When did Americans become these voluntary conformists anyway??
I think it would be beneficial to have a separate topic on the forum where people could list places that are more amenable to the low budget self-builder. It has been one of the hardest subjects to research on the internet I have come across. Many counties don't publish fee schedules or their websites are badly designed and don't answer any questions and calling up each and every potential county is a mammoth task. I think sharing personal experiences of people who have dealt with this, in whatever location they might have picked, could be invaluable to the rest of us.
So please keep this thread alive by posting all your nuggets of information; where are these counties? How easy were they to deal with? Which have permits, but affordable ones? How much did it cost?
Fletcher comes to mind, but I admit its been years and times may have changed things.
A vacation cabin, or hunting cabin. It is viewed entirely differently than a permanent dwelling.
Both for permit and code purposes, and (as icing on the cake), the assessor may look at it as of less value than a permanent dwelling.
Certainly worth looking into. Building inspectors are much less likely to drive hours into the country to view a cabin "that only gets used a few weekends per year" than they will for a place where your children will grow up. As long as you are not trying to call it a home, they don't really give a damn.
Down the road, if you get 'caught' living there, perhaps you could weasel out of it with "Times are tough. We had to give up our apartment in the city. This is all we have left."
During my land search, I found several of these cabins in rural areas. None of them even resembled something that a building inspector would approve. Most would have needed some major modification to make them into a permanent dwelling by city standards. People (including city/county officials) are much more lenient in rural areas. Everybody just wants to be left alone.
You only need a permit and inspection IF: you are putting a new house up. If there is an existing house... you can remodel to your heart's content. A new building needs a permit. Even if it's used and moved in. You do not need one for a carport, even if later you enclose it into a workshop or garage.
IF you have someone do your electrical or plumbing work, then they need a permit. YOU CAN DO YOUR OWN WORK WITHOUT. IF you do have it hired the person that does the work is often the inspector as well.
If you're not cheesing off your neighbors, then most things fly. I can tell and show you horror stories about the addition the neighbor near me put on her house. It won't be inspected ever is my guess. When we looked at houses the realtor warned us about non-inspected DIY remodeling, and we seen some real dinghummers.
It totally depends on where you are at and what you're trying to do. Now I did learn how to properly frame a wall to code and do wiring to code. I want a safe house to live in. It may take me longer but I can do it. The assessor just walks by everything and gives it a guess as does our local insurance agents. And on the assessor, if you don't agree to what they said/did, you can walk to the courthouse and discuss it with them, have them come out again and discuss it on the spot. I've had to do that a few times. Or when I bought my shop and they charged me for the shop next door (two built across the same lots, we split the lots as the buildings went to different people-mine was registered first so they hit me for both) and it took 5 minutes to get that fixed.