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mushrooms to defeat the wicked herpes virus  RSS feed

 
tiffany thrasher
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hey, so here's a kind of gross/weird/not cool topic..

i get some wicked bad herpes outbreaks, especially on my lips and now onto my face, usually from eating way too much protein (in the form of faux vegan meats or peanuts or walnuts), or getting a sunburn, or being somewhere windy (snowboarding and surfing do not help)..

shiitake i know work really well to help stop the virus from replicating.. so does the lemon balm tincture i make..

also, this stuff is pure gold, and when i drink a cup of it right when i feel an outbreak coming on, it stops it literally within like 4 hours.. http://www.iherb.com/Eclectic-Institute-Mushroom-Immune-Espresso-Pow-der-2-5-oz-72-g/40087

the problem is, it seems like they don't make it anymore, i can only find it online, and it is ridiculously expensive if i can find it in a store.. i want to make it myself!

i've also heard that "gypsy mushroom" can be really helpful, but i've never seen them available in any store, and most people i've talked to have no idea what im talking about.. mushroom expert tells me it is Cortinarius caperatus http://www.mushroomexpert.com/cortinarius_caperatus.html

any other input on any mushrooms that can stop this horrible little beast?

thanks!
 
Todd Parr
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tiffany thrasher wrote:hey, so here's a kind of gross/weird/not cool topic..

i get some wicked bad herpes outbreaks, especially on my lips and now onto my face, usually from eating way too much protein (in the form of faux vegan meats or peanuts or walnuts), or getting a sunburn, or being somewhere windy (snowboarding and surfing do not help)..

shiitake i know work really well to help stop the virus from replicating.. so does the lemon balm tincture i make..

also, this stuff is pure gold, and when i drink a cup of it right when i feel an outbreak coming on, it stops it literally within like 4 hours.. http://www.iherb.com/Eclectic-Institute-Mushroom-Immune-Espresso-Pow-der-2-5-oz-72-g/40087

the problem is, it seems like they don't make it anymore, i can only find it online, and it is ridiculously expensive if i can find it in a store.. i want to make it myself!

i've also heard that "gypsy mushroom" can be really helpful, but i've never seen them available in any store, and most people i've talked to have no idea what im talking about.. mushroom expert tells me it is Cortinarius caperatus http://www.mushroomexpert.com/cortinarius_caperatus.html

any other input on any mushrooms that can stop this horrible little beast?

thanks!


I don't know how to "freeze dry" things, but the ingredient list is simple enough. Shitake, Maitake, and Oyster mushrooms in equal parts and a little Reishi thrown in for good measure.
 
tiffany thrasher
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the reason i think it works so well is because, since it is a powder, the 1 teaspoon worth of powder is like 100's of mushrooms.. its a really fast easy way to get a bunch of their wonderful mushroom power inside me quickly where it can do its magic. .. i think that maybe dehydrating them and grinding them in a coffee grinder might work out the same...
 
allen lumley
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Tiffany Thrasher : I will follow this thread with interest having a long standing (2+yrs) bout with 'Shingles' , also a virus Even with good insurance the 'co-pay is painful !

Please share a little more of you are comfortable w doing so !

For the Crafts Big AL
 
Neil Layton
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There are a number of substances produced by fungi that will combat viruses, including herpes BUT you do need to be very careful of some claims not backed up by scientific evidence. You also need to be aware that just eating the mushroom, or just eating an extract of the mushroom, may not provide enough of these substances to have an effect.

This is the case with Cortinarius caperatus (formerly Rozites caperata) (your "Gypsy mushroom"). There is research evidence that a substance found in this mushroom may prevent infection if applied within hours of contact, but I can find nothing reliable on its effect on an active infection. http://www.dl.begellhouse.com/journals/708ae68d64b17c52,0d0f121956dd501b,5c4de264488a1f0a.html This paper has been poorly cited. The substance was identified 17 years ago, and nothing is on the market, so I suspect it was a dead end with the usual rumours and dubious claims of efficacy circulating on the web.

Cultivating this mushroom would probably be tricky, even if you did have a suitable substrate (beech (Fagus sylvatica) or conifer (it grows in the Scottish Highlands, but I've never tried it) woodland).

Something similar applies to Ganoderma lucidum (Reishi). This has been used for years for medicinal purposes, and some active compounds are again effective against herpes, but it's unclear scientifically how effective the fungus itself would be. You could grow this. https://healingreishi.wordpress.com/methods-for-growing-reishi/the-log-method/the-log-growing-method-in-picture-form/ https://healingreishi.wordpress.com/methods-for-growing-reishi/how-to-grow-reishi-mushrooms-on-hardwood-sawdust/

I've found something to suggest that an extract of shiitake (Lentinula edodes) mycelium (extract of mycelium, not whole mushroom) may be active against herpes, but it was unreferenced, and comes from a vested interest. This is easy enough to grow, and there are instructions both on this site and on the web. http://www.rodalesorganiclife.com/garden/grow-shiitake-mushrooms http://www.motherearthnews.com/organic-gardening/growing-shiitake-mushrooms-zmaz86jfzglo.aspx

Likewise someone saying that an extract of a mushroom was "tested" for antiviral properties, even against herpes, doesn't mean that anything useful was found, or even that it was a decent trial.

You also need to be very careful about experiences of people who did something and then found their condition cleared up. I ended up in a pointless argument once with someone who told me she gave homeopathic "medicine" to her dog, the dog got better, therefore homeopathy works. I just couldn't get it through to her that this was illogical. This is what comes of not including critical thinking as part of core school curricula.

Eating these mushrooms probably won't do any great harm, but may not do any good, and you need to be aware of the fact that even if your infection clears up after eating the mushrooms, the process may not have been helped or caused by eating the mushrooms. It's definitely plausible that hitting a flare-up early may well prevent it from getting worse, and again won't do much harm and may - may - do some good.
 
Rus Williams
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Tiffany, I've found that my trigger for a coldsore outbreak on my lips is doing too much, to long for too many other people. In effect overwork.
I'll watch out for the protein trigger though, I never thought of that.

Thanks for chasing down those references Neil.
 
tiffany thrasher
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Neil Layton wrote: I ended up in a pointless argument once with someone who told me she gave homeopathic "medicine" to her dog, the dog got better, therefore homeopathy works. I just couldn't get it through to her that this was illogical. This is what comes of not including critical thinking as part of core school curricula.


lol. homeopathy would be the most hilarious scam on earth if it wasn't for all the harm it does (eating essentially incredibly expensive water is never going to heal anything except by the placebo effect)

also i'm very aware of correlation≠causation

on that tho, i'm vegan and against animal testing, except if it is voluntary, which animals can not volunteer for. so i am voluntarily animal testing on myself and my partner every chance i get.

i thought that maybe the whole "gyspy mushroom" thing may be a scam, but was just wondering if anyone else had any info. thank you for your links and thoughts

 
tiffany thrasher
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Rus Williams wrote:Tiffany, I've found that my trigger for a coldsore outbreak on my lips is doing too much, to long for too many other people. In effect overwork.
I'll watch out for the protein trigger though, I never thought of that.


yeah for sure stress and overexertion have some effect on my outbreaks, but it seems to be specifically food with way more arginine than lysine (both amino acids) that make the virus replicate like crazy. tests have shown that arginine activates the virus and lysine deactivates it, essentially, so i avoid foods that have a super high arginine to lysine ratio.

all of the vegan protein powders are a major bummer for me, since there is so much more arginine in them lysine.i've had the least amount of problems with this one http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00TZV87V4, since the amounts of each are fairly close to each other.

i really only use protein powders when i'm doing really strenuous workout routines tho, so i know that my body will use up the massive amount of protein i'm putting inside it. the problems come when i'm not doing alot and the virus gets to use the amino acids that my muscles should be using, but i'm being lazy and not working out
 
John Weiland
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@tiffany t: "....arginine activates the virus and lysine deactivates it, essentially, so i avoid foods that have a super high arginine to lysine ratio."

L-lysine helps me as well. When I sense the beastie crawling out of it's shell, I typically whomp my system with 3000 mg over 24 hr. I know they caution against it, but it seems to do the trick along with lowering stress levels. Not a magic bullet if an outbreak takes hold, but faster reduction of symptoms nonetheless. Are you averse to taking L-lysine in pill form? Also the label below is from KAL brand nutritional yeast flakes....don't know if you like nutritional yeast flakes....but note the near double mass amount of lysine to arginine. (On a "per molecule basis", there may actually be more than double the lysine to argine ratio in this mixture.) I haven't had nearly the same number and severity of outbreaks as in earlier years, but it would be difficult to sift out whether that was due to reduced stress, changed diet, the lysine regime, or the discovery of a ninth planet in the solar system
NutritionalYeast.JPG
[Thumbnail for NutritionalYeast.JPG]
 
nancy sutton
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I don't have them very often, but I've been able to stop cold sores in their tracks with Lysine and/or an ice cube. Works every time! ... although neither are a mushroom ;)
 
John Elliott
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Not fungi folks, weeds. Specifically Phyllanthus urinaria. There is quite a bit of research showing that this humble weed is active against herpes simplex virus. Here is one paper from the Journal of Ethnopharmacology to get you started.

And your request comes at a propitious time, as chamber bitter, mimosaweed, chanca piedra, or whatever you like to call it is just starting to pop up in my garden. Soon I will be harvesting buckets of it, and if you would like to try some, you can send me a PM with your address. It doesn't have much taste to it, but mixed in with chamomile and lemongrass, it makes a nice herb tea.
 
tiffany thrasher
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John Elliott wrote:Specifically Phyllanthus urinaria. There is quite a bit of research showing that this humble weed is active against herpes simplex virus.
And your request comes at a propitious time, as chamber bitter, mimosaweed, chanca piedra, or whatever you like to call it is just starting to pop up in my garden. Soon I will be harvesting buckets of it, and if you would like to try some, you can send me a PM with your address. It doesn't have much taste to it, but mixed in with chamomile and lemongrass, it makes a nice herb tea.


Wow awesome! That's pretty amazing. I already have a bunch of melissa growing, so that would be great to have another plant I could grow along with it. Do you think this plant will grow in the central CA coast since it looks like it is a tropical plant?... (maybe just in the summer I'm guessing, but since it's an annual that's all it would really do anyways )

How do you prepare it, just make a tea w/ it? Do you think it would work as a tincture? I like tinctures since I can make a bunch all at once and then have it available for months..

The reason I started this whole thread is because all of the herbal products in the stores, as well as lysine pills, are pretty expensive and it would be so great to have an entire section of my garden dedicated to growing plants that can stop HSV. Free drugs! Woo!
 
tiffany thrasher
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John Weiland wrote:don't know if you like nutritional yeast flakes....but note the near double mass amount of lysine to arginine. (On a "per molecule basis", there may actually be more than double the lysine to argine ratio in this mixture.) I haven't had nearly the same number and severity of outbreaks as in earlier years, but it would be difficult to sift out whether that was due to reduced stress, changed diet, the lysine regime, or the discovery of a ninth planet in the solar system


I do indeed love nooch! (it's what the cool kids are calling it these days haha) I put it in most of my salad dressings and soup stocks and make a yummy mac and cheeze sauce out of it.. That's something I always have on hand, never realized it had so much lysine. Good to know! I'd much rather eat a food than take a pill, but will if things get really bad..

PS - I'm in astronomy in college right now and am also super stoked about this mysterious gigantic 9th planet... it just keeps reminding me of this everytime someone calls it Planet 9 tho.. Space Vampires!
 
John Elliott
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tiffany thrasher wrote: Do you think this plant will grow in the central CA coast since it looks like it is a tropical plant?... (maybe just in the summer I'm guessing, but since it's an annual that's all it would really do anyways )

How do you prepare it, just make a tea w/ it? Do you think it would work as a tincture? I like tinctures since I can make a bunch all at once and then have it available for months..


I sent some seeds to another Permie in the Los Angeles area. It's definitely hot enough to grow in CA; it's the water that would be the problem. Phyllanthus has lots of shallow roots, and it doesn't like being dried out. On the other hand, it is quite a vigorous weed in a well watered lawn.

I dry a lot in the fall and use that to brew tea. Can't tell you about tinctures, as I have never tried that.
 
tiffany thrasher
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John Elliott wrote:
I sent some seeds to another Permie in the Los Angeles area. It's definitely hot enough to grow in CA; it's the water that would be the problem. Phyllanthus has lots of shallow roots, and it doesn't like being dried out. On the other hand, it is quite a vigorous weed in a well watered lawn.


Haha, a well-watered lawn is something i definitely do not have. if by "well-watered" you mean "full of burr clover, milk thistle and scarlet pumpernil, which is the only thing that will grow because we are in a never-ending drought" then lol, yes.

I'm moving from the central valley out to the Santa Cruz area this summer, which at least has the awesome ocean fogs to keep things moist. It's a neverending hellscape of heat and dryness here in the central valley in summer, I do not think that cute little tropical plant would like it here ..
 
Thekla McDaniels
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tiffany thrasher wrote:
Neil Layton wrote: I ended up in a pointless argument once with someone who told me she gave homeopathic "medicine" to her dog, the dog got better, therefore homeopathy works. I just couldn't get it through to her that this was illogical. This is what comes of not including critical thinking as part of core school curricula.


lol. homeopathy would be the most hilarious scam on earth if it wasn't for all the harm it does (eating essentially incredibly expensive water is never going to heal anything except by the placebo effect)



Just want to point out here in a most respectful way, that homeopathy has done a lot of good for a lot of people, even if it "only" works by the placebo effect. I prefer to call the placebo effect "eliciting the body's innate capacity to heal". It is the most effective, least invasive, least risky intervention, when an intervention is needed.

The placebo effect is nothing to disparage. A large percent of the efficacy of prescription medicines aka pharmaceuticals is also due to the placebo effect. The newer a drug is, and the more excited the physicians are about a drug, the more effective it is. Humans just work that way. Why not take advantage of it?

For myself, I say the more often the placebo effect can be elicited the better! The more harmlessly the better.

For many people, a trip to the doctor's office is what elicits the body's innate capacity to heal.

Just because a thing seems "hokey" or does not always work for all people, in all situations, does not mean it is a "scam". Just because a person makes an erroneous conclusion about whether or not the dog was "healed" by the homeopathy, does not disprove homeopathy. Instead, it demonstrates- as Neil pointed out- the person's inability to use critical thinking in evaluation of an observation.

 
Jay Muir
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More herbs and plants to look up for their potential antiviral activity:

http://www.wildernesscollege.com/antiviral-herbs.html

When I saw your thread I immediately thought of usnea - tree lichen - it's not hard to Google for scientific evidence of its antiviral properties.

http://www.sustainablehomesteading.com/edible-and-medicinal-plants/usnea-old-mans-beard/

However I couldn't find if there is anything specifically linking usnea to herpes virus treatment, and it is contraindicated for those who are pregnant or have autoimmune deficiency.

Just more for you to check out and research for yourself. Good luck!
 
nancy sutton
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Probably OT, but re: "Just because a thing seems "hokey" or does not always work for all people, in all situations, does not mean it is a "scam"., I was astonished to learn that the most successful, and endlessly advertised!, drug for smoking cessation, Chantix, is actually only effective for about 30% of users. And I don't think most folks expect anything to work for all people.

Plus, new psychotropic drugs are no longer able to pass the FDA's placebo test...and it is speculated that the older ones, Prozac, Paxil, etc., would be unable to pass it today. Current theory is that the constant 'see pill makes people happy' picture presented on TV has enabled the placebo effect to be triggered by ANY pill ... sugar or the new whiz drug :) Yeah for Mother Nature !
 
Xander Vaughn
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This isn't exactly what you asked for but I have had great luck with taking Red Marine Algae daily to prevent them. A prescription drug I am on causes horrible outbreaks nearly constantly if I don't take it. Lysine was only effective for me for a short period of time then I was right back to nearly constantly having issues. A lady in a health food store recommended I try Red Marine Algae about 5 years ago and I rarely have outbreaks now.
 
Neil Layton
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Xander Vaughn wrote:This isn't exactly what you asked for but I have had great luck with taking Red Marine Algae daily to prevent them. A prescription drug I am on causes horrible outbreaks nearly constantly if I don't take it. Lysine was only effective for me for a short period of time then I was right back to nearly constantly having issues. A lady in a health food store recommended I try Red Marine Algae about 5 years ago and I rarely have outbreaks now.



What does the science say?

Mibbes aye, mibbes naw.

In the case of one species of marine red algae, Gigartina atropurpurea, it seems that there are substances that inhibit viral infection, and I suppose it's plausible that they might prevent a flare-up, but this is one species of several thousand of marine red algae, and there are no controls over standardisation or labeling. So far there are no standardised versions that have been shown to be clinically effective. It seems it might work, probably won't do any harm, and might be worth a try, but generalising from your experience to someone else's might be stretching it, for several reasons (not least the possibility of using a species that doesn't produce the right polysaccharides). More here: http://blogs.mcgill.ca/oss/2012/12/24/can-red-marine-algae-help-with-shingles-eczema-or-cold-sores/
 
Xander Vaughn
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Neil, I guess it is a good thing I am not a doctor and didn't say take this it will for sure work for you. I understand what you are saying but I see no harm in telling of my personal experiences and allowing the person to make their own decisions. I am assuming we are all adults here and are capable of doing that. It sounds like you have a real gift for looking up or knowing scientific knowledge which is commendable and I applaud you for what seems like an immense knowledge base.
 
Neil Layton
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Xander Vaughn wrote:Neil, I guess it is a good thing I am not a doctor and didn't say take this it will for sure work for you. I understand what you are saying but I see no harm in telling of my personal experiences and allowing the person to make their own decisions. I am assuming we are all adults here and are capable of doing that. It sounds like you have a real gift for looking up or knowing scientific knowledge which is commendable and I applaud you for what seems like an immense knowledge base.


Some of it is a knowledge base: I read a lot.

Most of it is knowing how to seek out and evaluate information and evidence. These are skills that can be learned (and which, in my opinion, would benefit everyone). I'm constantly surprised by the people who post questions here that would be answered by thirty seconds using a good search engine. Sometimes I have the energy and patience to answer them. Sometimes I don't. Sometimes there is a good book at stake: good books make excellent motivation for me.

I've spent enough time with people suggesting I "try x", often on limited evidence or overlooking harms, that I've learned to check every single suggestion - including those from my GP.
 
John Clempermies
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If you read about mushrooms and their active ingredients, you'll find that the active ingredients are inside the chitin cell walls.. And chitin is not digested in our stomachs or intestines. So ingesting pure mushroom powder is like ingesting cellulose, it mostly goes right through you. If you want the benefits of the active ingredients (mainly polysaccharides and triterpenes) you need to use an extract from the mushroom. hot water extraction brings out the polysaccharides, and ethanol extraction is used to produce the triterpenes.

If you look at the Electric Institute mushroom powder tea mentioned above, only the Reishi (ganoderma lucidum) is from hot water extraction. The rest are simply freeze dried mushroom powder and useless for your purposes. Reishi is only a small part of this mix, but perhaps that's what is helping your herpes problem and you might want to concentrate on finding good quality reishi extract powder. The really good stuff has aprox 30% polysaccharides(with a high percentage of beta glucans) and 6% triterpenes.

So if you're looking for results, look for the powders made from dual extraction. Don't pay high prices for anything else.
 
John Weiland
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I've found references to freeze dried mushroom powder, but not pure mushroom powder, although one was advertised as "Reishi Mushroom Powder - Pure Unrefined - All Natural Pesticide Free (16 oz (1 Lb))". (Amazon.com)

The description elaborated that the product is "Pesticide free and cultivated without chemicals. Red Reishi is primarily composed of complex carbohydrates called water-soluble polysaccharides, triterpeniods, proteins and amino acids. Generally, Reishi is generally recommended as an adaptogen, immune modulator, and a general tonic."

Although it's certainly possible that a cell-wall fraction of these mushrooms, devoid of any of their other constituents, is prepared for general consumption, I could see where this would be quite expensive and suspect most of this is simply dried mushroom that is ground to a powder. In this case, with the exception of constituents that would be unstable or otherwise lose their activity upon drying, most of what was in the 'shroom in wet state will be there in the dry state. And although I can see where extraction of *known* bioactives may evidenced to be difficult in the normal digestive process, I suspect that if the use of the mushrooms came from lore in which extraction was not used, that the beneficial activity may still be made available to the body in some way.

With that out of the way, I'm going to pull the soap-box over to the podium for a minute. In the spirit of better communication, I'm simply going to suggest that recommendations to try something because it worked for one person should, if possible, clearly state that "I feel this worked for me....you may wish to give it a try". Even though we often feel such notions are implicit in the recommendation, that is not always the case, and in this instance it doesn't hurt to over-communicate. If I have evidence that eating the pig manure in my backyard has cured me of TB, then I'm going to suggest it.....with the positive notion that we all have diverse, unique physiologies that reaction to agents in different ways, and with the negative notion that there may be unknown aspects of the concoction that may have side effects. If it worked for me, I wouldn't wait around for science to prove it....AND I would accept the risks of that decision.

When it comes to what scientific instrumentation can and cannot detect, I would again urge, where possible, that there is striving to include the sentiments that XY and Z polysaccharides, secondary metabolites, and other constituents are *known* to be in AB, or C extract, but that doesn't mean others have not gone undetected, nor that some constituents presented in combination don't have a special effect that the same compounds in isolation can't duplicate. There is one metric shitload that we absolutely do not know about the biotic and abiotic world, even given the fact that there is an astounding amount that we do know. But if there is anything that diversity teaches us, it's that there is more than one way to skin a cat than to pull it through a keyhole. In addressing the OP thus, I would say if shoe fits, wear it.....and know that there are risks possibly involved no different than walking into your local medical center.
 
Andrew Parker
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I have used a liquid maitake mushroom extract as a topical medication for herpes (including shingles) for over 10 years. A bottle costs about $25 and I only use a drop or two, so it tends to last a long time. agaricus brasiliensis is much more potent, but I cannot find a local source, though there are many online sources (I still hesitate buying things online -- just because). The active ingredient, in this specific case, is lipopolysaccharide (LPS). There has been extensive study of LPS as an immune stimulator. Plant derived LPS has shown to be far less problematic than those derived from pathogenic bacteria.

I first used wheat extract, but you go through a lot of wheat to get what you need. The study that first brought my attention to plant derived LPS was sponsored by a Japanese gluten manufacturer that was looking for a use for its waste. Wheat extract from that process is the filtrate from the final pass in separating starch from waste water. It is then sent through an RO unit to concentrate the extract, then it is dried. If you regularly make your own wheat gluten, you can modify your process to save the extract. I modified a juicer as a crude centrifuge. [The wheat extract study led to research into LPS derived from Pantoea agglomerans]

There are several plants that give very large amounts of LPS. After trying several different plant extracts, I settled on maitake extract because it was moderately priced and locally available.

Mushroom extract is also good with pimples, boils and carbuncles, either resolving them or rapidly bringing them to a head. Mixed results for warts.

Here is a list of related articles:
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=related:7Yr7kvtSNosJ:scholar.google.com/&hl=en&as_sdt=0,45

This is the article on wheat extract that I first read over 20 years ago:
http://ci.nii.ac.jp/lognavi?name=nels&lang=en&type=pdf&id=ART0004136735

This article lists different plants and their yield of LPS (note the location of ginger, turmeric and ginseng):
http://ci.nii.ac.jp/lognavi?name=nels&lang=en&type=pdf&id=ART0004136866

This is a recent article describing plant derived LPS, specifically from fermented wheat flour extract, and its medical uses:
http://ar.iiarjournals.org/content/29/3/859.full#sec-6
 
Stu Horton
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First, I just want to repeat something John clem said b/c I think it's very important. The active ingredients in mushrooms aren't completely accessible if the mushroom isn't "cooked." I'm not sure what temperature or methods are ideal but it's worth looking into for your purposes.

Neil made some great points about research but for those just getting into finding proof I think it's important to point out that not all, in fact a great deal, of peer reviewed research is not "independent." Many times it's paid for by some entity with a financial interest in the outcome. Knowing who pays for the research is just as important as if it comes from a scientific journal.

Also, in the last few years we've seen at least one study removed from journal without peer review b/c their findings conflict with some very powerful interests.

In other cases imperfect placebos may be used to make the results appear more desirable so reading studies published in journals is only the first step in research. Verifying the credibility if the research is the hard part.

Finally I'd like to recommend a site I've used, fungi.com , they offer finished products but they also offer kits to get you started growing your own medicinal and culinary mushrooms. I didn't see the "gypsy mushroom" there though.
 
Lisa McMahon
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After spending years taking lysine and trying to modify my diet etc. for this very problem, and looking deeper, I have discovered that while lysine does seem to help minimally, it doesn't prevent. The virus is too strong. sunshine, stress, etc can cause it to have a hayday. prevention for me comes in the form of fixing digestion by the use of acids and enzymes. These allow the body to properly digest foods and extract the minerals from them. Taking supplements can help, but why not use all your food more appropriately? zinc is the key here, zinc is needed for your body during times of stress and it helps prevent the virus (any virus, i think) from taking hold. So, I say, this is all interesting and we all can't escape all the time from these damn viruses, but consider your digestion in the equation instead of searching for the magic bullet (mushroom, homeo, amino acids, etc.)

 
Neil Layton
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Thanks for making some really important points there, Stu. I tend to prefer good research over personal experience, but evaluating good research can be an utter nightmare. I have some general rules of thumb, of which funder bias is one (also check impact factors, numbers of citations, predatory journal listings and so on: a paper in Cell is likely to be a lot more reliable than something in the Antarctic Journal of Mycological Medicine*). I'd consider the Gypsy Mushroom research I mentioned above somewhat suspect: not necessarily bad, but certainly worth checking. That's what references are for. A reference isn't proof: it's to enable someone else to check your conclusions.

I've seen any number of papers, even from mainstream medicine, where I have concluded that they reflect a bad study. The same applies to a lot of research into agriculture, "sustainable" or otherwise. There is a big difference between evidence and proof. The best I can say from many papers is that the results warrant further investigation (or, in the immortal words of so many papers "further research is needed", or to rephrase even further "gie us another grant").

Stu Horton wrote:First, I just want to repeat something John clem said b/c I think it's very important. The active ingredients in mushrooms aren't completely accessible if the mushroom isn't "cooked." I'm not sure what temperature or methods are ideal but it's worth looking into for your purposes.


Absolutely, and this is actually one reason for preferring extracts over cooked mushroom. Cooking the mushroom helps to break down the chitin that makes many of the vitamins and minerals available to the human digestive system. I like the flavour of raw mushrooms, but the human digestive system can't do much with them.

It's some of the polysaccharides that seem to be pharmacologically active, but it's worth pointing out that chitin is a polysaccharide, and I can't find much on the temperature at which it degrades, and that seems to be related to the presence of common acids (such as acetic acid (found in vinegar)), and I wouldn't even want to speculate as to the effect of cooking on the pharmacologically active portion without a lot more research.

That some of these mushrooms have been used as medicine proves very little, except to emphasise just how much of an intellectual minefield this subject is.

* I made that one up, obviously.

 
John Weiland
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@Stu H: ".....it's important to point out that not all, in fact a great deal, of peer reviewed research is not "independent." Many times it's paid for by some entity with a financial interest in the outcome. Knowing who pays for the research is just as important as if it comes from a scientific journal. "

What's equally as irritating is that supposedly "independent" journals are slipping, perhaps worse in recent years, in the integrity of their review process and who they choose to review the submitted publication. As it is timely to this discussion, I'm pasting below the abstract from the following link: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S187962571600016X

(Because of purchasing and copyright restrictions, not all may be able to access this without payment.)

Note in the abstract below, which is faithfully replicated at length in the actual review paper, that only vaccine trials and synthetic antivirals specific for HSV are addressed in this article. Nowhere does it address numerous other studies that deal with HSV, either as a prophylactic or curative, that would be outside of the interests of pharma. Although the authors belong to a pharma group, they are publishing in a supposedly independent research review journal, the editors of which are supposed to solicit reviewers who work on HSV to review the paper and give their thumbs up to publish. Ultimately, it can be up to the editor as to whether or not the submitted paper sees the light of day, but this is what I mean by integrity.....the whole systems starts falling down when responsibility is abrogated at these various levels of the review process.

@Lisa M: "...we all can't escape all the time from these damn viruses"

And once you've got HSV, you are never escaping it....at least at the current state of the technology. Once infected, HSV will reside quiescent in the lumbar region of your spine and get reactivated by many means as you indicated. And yes, I've not found l-lysine to prevent, but it does aid in speeding up recovery in my own experience.

@Neil L.: "I've seen any number of papers, even from mainstream medicine, where I have concluded that they reflect a bad study."

Absolutely,.....and a good trend...**maybe**....is that in some respects the general population is a #tiny bit# better these days at determining this as well if the information from the study are actually made bare for them to see. One of the better aspects of the internet X "open access" science journals is that the "materials and methods" of these research papers are at the fingertips of anyone at a keyboard.

With regard to "chitin is a polysaccharide, and I can't find much on the temperature at which it degrades", the second pasting below is tantalizing....it speaks to chitinase genes in mammals but I didn't have enough time to look up chitinase activity in the mammalian gut. Chitinase is a major defense gene family plants known to be active in the degradation of chitin and in resistance to fungal infection.
antiHSVstrategies.JPG
[Thumbnail for antiHSVstrategies.JPG]
MammalChitinase.JPG
[Thumbnail for MammalChitinase.JPG]
 
Stu Horton
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This had turned into a great thread. These last few posts have reminded me of other things I wanted to say.

First, if your you're already eating mushrooms, apparently just like us, they're very good at making d3 if they're exposed to the sun. So if you're eating them increase your vitamin d intake exponentially by exposing them to sunlight for a few hours after harvest.

Second, I don't know that freeze drying doesn't some how rupture the cell wall and make the nutrients available. Maybe there's some research that says it does. Anyone else know? My gut tells me no but I've been wrong more times than I care to admit.
 
Andrew Parker
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About the same time I ran across the article on wheat extract derived LPS, I was reaching a crisis point with herpes flareups, recurring at increasing frequencies, that would just about floor me for two to three weeks, or longer. When I approached a specialist about it, I was told that there were no treatments. I tried the homemade wheat extract out of desperation and, to my amazement, it worked. When it became obvious that making wheat extract at home was impractical, I tried a few of the more potent plants listed in the table in the second article, finally settling on the maitake mushroom (Grifola frondosa) extract, because of price, availability and efficacy.

It is not a cure, but it significantly reduced frequency and severity of flareups (from 5 or 6 times a year to once every two or three years). If I apply it as soon as there is any hint of inflammation, it will usually resolve without breaking out into a sore. If I wait too long (as little as a few hours), it will reduce severity of the sore and heal it within a week to ten days. When I have shingles, it quickly resolves the sores and eliminates the post herpetic neuralgia.

To clarify, I use the extract primarily as a topical medication, only using one to five drops per application. I will take a dropperfull orally, periodically. My wife and kids will use it for cold sores, as well as pimples, boils, carbuncles, etc. Used in conjunction with a disinfectant, like hydrogen peroxide, it is quite effective.

The old home remedy of soaking in an oatmeal bath makes sense when you look at the position that oats have in the table.
 
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