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Dirt cheap, all seasons, land  RSS feed

 
Ryan Tollmann
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https://gismaps.coconino.az.gov/delinquenttax/

Yup about five miles east of Valle and about 45miles nw of Flagstaff, and wha! 30miles south of the Grand Canyon..is the perfect place to turn scrub into paradise...hundreds of parcels tailormade for permies and frontier types to create a lush wonderland...a community of like minded thinkers and doers. And did i mention cheap? 100$-1000$ just pay the taxes owed.
Imagine if a few dozen permie moved in, helped each other, exchanged ideas and tried new ones...transform this place for all those people going to and from the Grand Canyon to see.. now that is a statement.
They even made an easy to use interactive map... the county is friendy to self reliant types, not too friendly if you know what i mean...they even promote the code of the west on their gov site.

All seasons, 13"-16" rainfall, plenty of snowmelt (ave 47"), this land NEEDS you... plant some Tribizond Date trees and throw down some pearl millet.

Ok thats my best pitch, what say you all. Lets put our collective knowledge together in real time.
 
Ryan Tollmann
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One more selling point...gas is 2.15/gal in Flagstaff, and 2.29 in Williams....
 
Colin McGee
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Location: Media, PA
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Where's the link you mention?
 
Ryan Tollmann
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Susan Quinlan
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Cheap land, but what about the mercury concentrations? I know there are lakes in that area that cannot serve as water supplies for the region and "dont eat the fish"  is common knowledge.

Is there a way to check out Geological information about this concern?   I know the mercury is naturally occurring but I am completely ignorant as to how this works. 

The up side is beautiful mountain meadows and an abundance of wildlife. There is also the option of simply driving a few hours away to get warm in the winter. Please let me know if you are aware of the above issue.

 
Jack Edmondson
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Location: Central Texas zone 8a, 800 chill hours 28 blessed inches of rain
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Ryan,

Great post!  Good information.  I am no stranger to tax sales.  But I do know State law varies considerably on the subject.  With all the normal disclaimers, can you tells us what you know about the title to the land and the liens, tax or otherwise, is handled.  I know in Texas when you buy a tax foreclosure, you get a clean deed, as the court proceeding take care of all the liens.  In Oklahoma it is the exact opposite.  The court's ruling only transfers ownership and all liens stay in place.  Very bad juju for the buyer.  Caveat Emptor in the worst way.

You mentioned snow, normally snowfall calculates at about 1/10th the volume for precipitation measurements.  So is that 13-16 inches of rainfall with another 4.7 in winter precipitation; or is the 13-16 inclusive?  18-21 inches of precipitation would not be too bad for high desert. 
 
Jack Edmondson
Posts: 240
Location: Central Texas zone 8a, 800 chill hours 28 blessed inches of rain
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For anyone interested, There are a couple of 10 acre tracts for ~$600 acre with this soil profile below.  Not all the land has this nice a profile, but some do.


QUIVERA SERIES

The Quivera series consists of very deep, well drained soils that formed in calcareous alluvium derived from pyroclastics. Quivera soils are on fan terraces and have slopes of 0 to 8 percent. The mean annual precipitation is about 13 inches and the mean air annual temperature is about 51 degrees F.
TAXONOMIC CLASS: Fine, mixed, superactive, mesic Calcidic Argiustolls

TYPICAL PEDON: Quivera extremely gravelly loam - rangeland. (Colors are for dry soil unless otherwise noted.)

RANGE IN CHARACTERISTICS:

Soil moisture: Intermittently moist in some part of the SMCS from July to September and December to February. Aridic ustic moisture regime.

Depth to calcic horizon: 20 to 40 inches

Soil temperature: 50 to 55 degrees F.

A horizon
Hue: 7.5YR or 10YR
Value: 4 or 5 dry, 2 or 3 moist
Chroma: 2 or 3, dry or moist

Bt horizon
Hue: 5YR to 10YR
Value: 4 or 5 dry, 3 to 5 moist
Chroma: 2 to 4 dry, 2 or 3 moist
Texture: gravelly clay loam, gravelly clay
Clay: 35 to 50 percent
Rock fragments: 15 to 35 percent gravel
Reaction: Neutral to moderately alkaline
Calcium carbonate equivalent: less than 15 percent as segregated filaments

Bk horizon
Hue: 7.5YR or 10YR
Value: 6 to 8 dry, 5 to 7 moist
Chroma: 2 to 4 dry, 2 to 3 moist
Texture: very gravelly loam, very gravelly loamy sand, very gravelly clay loam
Clay: 10 to 30 percent
Reaction: Slightly alkaline or moderately alkaline
Calcium carbonate equivalent: 15 percent calcium carbonate as segregated filaments, soft masses and coated rock fragments

GEOGRAPHIC SETTING: Quivera soils are on fan terraces and have slopes of 0 to 8 percent. Elevations range from 5,700 to 6,800 feet. The soils formed in gravelly calcareous alluvium derived from pyroclastics. The annual precipitation ranges from 12 to 14 inches. Mean January temperature is about 36 degrees F., mean July temperature is about 73 degrees F., and the average annual air temperature is 49 to 54 degrees F. The frost-free period is 120 to 160 days.

DRAINAGE AND PERMEABILITY: Well drained; slow to medium runoff; slow permeability.

USE AND VEGETATION: Used primarily for livestock grazing and wildlife habitat. Vegetation is blue grama, black grama, galleta, fourwing saltbush and winterfat.

 
M. A. Carey
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We bought 4.61 acres 4 miles south of Valle and 2-1/2 miles east of Hwy 64 last January.  We didn't buy as delinquent taxes, but still got it pretty cheap.  We call our place "Scruffy Acres."  We love it here!
 
Miles Flansburg
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Read the rules...

tax sales

If I am reading this correctly...

The current owner has three years to pay all back taxes. After three years you forclose on them and pay all taxes and fees.

forclosure law

website
 
Ryan Tollmann
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The current owner has three years to pay all back taxes. After three years you forclose on them and pay all taxes and fees.

forclosure law

website

Thanks for posting that, like the simplified explanation, what I read had to reread a few times lol... However consider that taxes on those properties are about 50$\yr hence you can calculate that if the certificate price is $300+ more then three years has already passed on most (there's probably a hundred parcels)
So rather then go through the bidding,waiting and court procedures...just walk into the treasurer's office and buy it outright for the certificate+penalties+fees
I'm sure they will be more then helpful to get some revenue out of them, and taxes. The only drawback I've found so far is fire\ems services are extra...if you call the fire dept or ems you get a bill after.
I'm going with strawbale and concrete piers with a tin roof when im ready to build. It gets -15 in winter so strawbale (r30-35) makes penetrating cold or heat difficult. And strawbale tend to smoulder not burn, and a layer of clay slip under the plaster makes them safer then ' stick and plastic' modern homes by far.
They have water delivery and Despenser stations in local towns. dispenseries charge about .01\gal that's 25$ for a 250\gal tote plus 10-15$  in gas both ways (gas is cheap)...a single person may need to go once a month with halfass conservation..I may wait till February to get started, and spend the winter in town depending how far I get out there...still waiting on a callback from several mason jobs...be nice to get a mason,carpenter,electrican,plumber combo out there..lol
I know I've talked to several people in town, nobody wants those properties...it's outside there skillset and too much work. Great opportunity for those who have great ideas and alternative ambitions.
 
Kyrt Ryder
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Location: Graham, Washington [Zone 7b, 47.041 Latitude] 41inches average annual rainfall, cool summer drought
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Ryan Tollmann wrote:plant some Tribizond Date trees

Do you have a source for them? Google is turning up nothing for me right now.
 
Ryan Tollmann
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Kyrt Ryder wrote:
Ryan Tollmann wrote:plant some Tribizond Date trees

Do you have a source for them? Google is turning up nothing for me right now.


Thats a common name, ill have to find the others names they go by..im geading to work right now though...
 
Ryan Tollmann
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Ryan Tollmann
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Scouted Flagstaff, they have tractor supply...harbor freight...dollar stores/general..and a walmart. I can work with that.
 
Ryan Tollmann
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So as promised heres the link to coconino co. , Az ....dept in charge of alternative building,designs etc

http://www.coconino.az.gov/index.aspx?NID=625

They promote sustainable living and help you through the permit process...some things that jumped out were strawbale homes and trombes...its a frontier selfreliant friendly place.
 
Ryan Tollmann
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So earthships,cob,strawbale,and a few others are all acceptable and encouraged by coconino co. They have tons of data and evaluations for your perusal. Like passive solar data,orientation,arcs. Energy conversion tables for earthship mass and compaction, r-ratings for alternative materials vs local climates. ...this place is 30% Indian population. A permies/frontier wetdream imho.

However i must clarify, my earlier post regarding rain/snow covers the entire county, but the country has multiple temperate zones so individual areas vary widely from lush plains, massive forests to drylands/arid..but on the plus side you dont have to travel far to experience them...and benifit from them. Water is close,gas is cheap,plenty of livestock and feed (organic and pellet) tools, machinery,and materials being traded locally..they have a CL catagory of 'freestuff' a truck with a trailer can snatch up wood,pipes,cmu,insulation,sheetmetal,for simply showing up.

Im fortunate to have landed here of all places. I think this is gonna be awesome.
Ill keep everyone posted as to how easy/hard permiting and building inspection is...as i build my solar passive strawbale home.

..any design/blueprints would be appreciated
 
Colin McGee
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Location: Media, PA
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Does anyone here have information on properties like this in other states or parts of the USA?
 
Ryan Tollmann
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Colin McGee wrote:Does anyone here have information on properties like this in other states or parts of the USA?


The factors that make a great place to buy are hard to find in the same area..unless you are willing to pay alot..people tend to buy up all the really good spots,which enhances competition thus driving up the price. That said. There are tax liens in many states/counties some of which are a hassle others aren't. I lucked out in that i was heading through the area and got dumped by a lady who neglected to mention A. Shes an alcoholic (box of wine a day) B. Shes never known hardship and has no monetary sense C. Was married. Imagine my surprise when she called her husband to pick her up three states later. Live n learn. But out of desperation i started searching for cheap land to park the rv, and found coconino co. To be the cheapest without being in the desert a hundred miles from everything.

Theres online land sales that double the land price but allow low dp and low monthly payments if your looking to start cheap.. thats how i found the area east of Valle, online guy was selling the properties for 7k 121.00 down 75/mon...then i dug deeper and saw the county treasurer had alot of tax leins cert. for that area for a few hundred each. Further reading revealed that if they are three yrs old you can buy them outright from the co. treasurer for the cert value +fees..
 
Ryan Tollmann
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This amounts to about 500$/acre+, if your able to work around certain things like water (delivered or toted by yourself from nearby towns) and isolation. The county is friendly to alternative building tech/materials  (big plus) and relatively cheap permit fees (300$) and loose inspections (big plus). Call them and explain what you want to building, you'll be surprised to know they have a dept just for that, that will walk you through it.
Permits are good for 90days and get automatically extended 90days each time something is inspected..so you can take your time..i plan on pouring a 2x2 pad once every 60days for each corner and load bearing column..lol and have each individually inspected... thats 6 pads extending my permit 90days each ;p
 
Ryan Tollmann
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I may even be able to 'train' the inspector to accept pics/video. Once the pads and columns are in place its time to formup headers and pour them...(additional auto extensions. )... so im looking at about 200$ each step (90 days) and watching my strawbale framework grow...until its time to order straw bales from a local guy (9$each) and then it speeds up, once you have the strawbales in place quickly apply a layer of clay ( $150/load ) and as soon as it sets apply plaster. By then i should see some growth in the cover crop lawn and the tree border.

Babysteps...
 
Miles Flansburg
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Ryan, so they have property that you can buy outright without going through all of the forclosure steps? Do they have a seperate list for those?

Have you already bought your land?

Any lots next to yours open?

You have my interest peaked but I don't want any extra hassles just want to put the money down and get a deed, is that what you are finding can be done?
 
Miles Flansburg
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Colin ..  check with the county assessors office in the county you are interested in.
 
Ryan Tollmann
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Theres a map link above. Alot of props. Just east of Valle (pronounced Val-le, like valley)

The treasurer has a list but not online..so have to visit him in person or call.

I havent purchased yet, still doing research and waiting for my job to start 2weeks. In three or four i hope to own one.
 
Ryan Tollmann
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Im sure there is a reason why the three year old+ plus tax liens arent differentiated between the less then three year tax liens, if i had to guess, he'd probably want to offload the harder ones first..or look you in the eye.
Tax people are long term thinkers, they want steady revenue..to plan with. Either way if,someone abandoned their property its a good bet they gave up...due to the conditions, or cold , or dryness.

dreaming is easy.


 
Ryan Tollmann
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On a side note, the flagstaff police are very nice, i saw two people get pulled, one didnt have headlights on at 10:30ish pm , the other wasnt wearing a seatbelt . Neither got tickets after the officer verfied they had them...ive been parked in various spots, but other then a single officer running my tags i got no interaction.. ive been to California..they really dont like RV camping,unless your in a designated spot. I could always count on a wakeup call from a deputy if i pulled over for some zzzs, or a walmart/store manager informing me the overnighting wasnt allowed.
 
Ryan Tollmann
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According to USA.com

VALLE gets about 17inches ave rainfall per yr , ave temp 54

http://www.usa.com/valle-az-weather.htm

But it has months with little or no rain in the summer... still dont know about snowfall, since its in a different climate zone then flagstaff/national forrest to the east.
 
Miles Flansburg
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Not endorsing any of these properties, just to get a visual of what the area looks like.







 
Ryan Tollmann
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I belive those are juniper trees, to give you an idea of what grows wild there.
 
Deb Rebel
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I've bought tax liens in OK. You need to own all three years worth of the three years back taxes liens, then you can sue to foreclose. The owner gets a chance to pay up. In which case you get the LIEN AMOUNTS back. After 3 years if it's still delinquent and nobody's bought the liens it goes into sheriff sale for the amount of back taxes and fines, fees, etc, accrued. That is the minimum bid. Anything on the property becomes the new owner's. If there is a lien on the property (state income tax, etc) it gets added to the amount. There are four lots downtown where I live that a hotel was on that burned, and the cleanup the city had to do amounted to $32k. That is added onto the parcel and if anyone wants those four lots they will have to pay that off as well to claim the land. The city better plan to put a city building on it or a park as nobody's going to pay for that, here.

On a sale for tax lien, you step into the county tax office and pay, first one to show on the date for that lien gets to purchase it. On a sale for delinquent taxes (flat sale) they run an auction in the office. They announce the parcel, announce the minimum, and start bids. (If the property owner is there that day they may NOT bid on the property. They can try to buy it after from the winning bidder). You must have a certified draft (aka the bank gives a paper saying the person's check will be covered) or cash in your pocket at the time of the auction. Then the winner gets to walk next door to the County Clerk and they process the sale and issue the deed. So time elapsed from auction to deed is under an hour. I have purchased in-town property this way.

In different states this will vary. I have seen large parcels of farmland/ranchland auctioned on the courthouse steps by the sheriff with a representative of the County Tax Office there. And been in some city land parcel sales where you had to have permits to breathe in the office it was so full (and the clerks debating moving it to the steps outside). In this county at least, once you own it, it's clear. Hence you have to pay the liens up front. A few houses in town are falling apart and falling down because they have healthy liens on them, the family has abandoned the house because the family member that owned it died, and nobody wants to deal with the debt hanging on the property. A few had to have the houses taken down they got so decrepit and the land will sit empty as nobody wants to pay $50k for two lots with no house and the place that has the lien yet refuses to release it. (there's a few people with huge lots because they mow and keep some of these lots as their own yards but they don't own them, and the land will probably stay in limbo...)

Gist of this, check carefully into buying tax liens versus sheriff auctions. Just because you buy the lien doesn't mean you will get the land. Don't you dare do anything until you have a title in hand. Research that property very carefully beforehand, go to the county office and check if there are any liens filed on that property and if so, how much. If a rancher goes chapter bankruptcy, the debt they leave behind may be levied on the land and all assets forfeited, and the property may be sold at sheriff auction to try to recoup the loss (and typically minimum bid is 2/3 the land or other property value). And you have to have that money up front.
 
Robbie Asay
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Ryan Tollmann wrote:Scouted Flagstaff, they have tractor supply...harbor freight...dollar stores/general..and a walmart. I can work with that.


Okay, that makes me interested right there.

The property in NM I was looking at has come up a bust and I want snow.  I know Flagpole gets snow.  My problem is I need high speed internet for important things like my education.  I use a ton of data.  The property I was looking at in NM was wired for fiber optics.

Do you know what kind of internet(if they have any) is out that way?
 
Lee Cain
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I was a Grand Canyon tour guide for 10 years.  Drove through Valle a lot.  beautiful spring, summer and fall.  Winters are cold to an Arizonan with occasional snow storms that tend to be horizontal due to wind.  If I was going to get away from the madness, this is where I would go. 
 
Jotham Bessey
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What are tax lien sales?
 
Ryan Tollmann
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Deb i realize OK is tricky, but this is coconino county and you have (and a delinquent owner ) three years to fix the tax situation or the county treasurer sells your land outright. Between that initial delinquency and thecthree yr aniversery people can bid on the interest of a lien and the owner can remedy the delinquency. IF they want the land back. I been there,seen it....it takes a special thpe of person to attrmpt to make that dryland an oasis...and most people have niether the time or inclination...or the knowledge. Thats why its perfect for permies...they enjoy the challange. I will be purchasing mine before winter..but ill be wintering in phoenix where its warm for the first year. I have a few friends that want in..but they are not permies or,even survivalists...but they want to be. They love the idea of sharing equipment and helping build homes...grow gardens and greening the desert.. (though technically its not,a desert)., it definitely needs greening. Hope some experienced permies jump on this bandwagon the county would love to see the area flourish.
 
Ryan Tollmann
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Sorry my lau guage is appalling but this phone has tiny buttons
 
Ryan Tollmann
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Robbie Asay wrote:
Ryan Tollmann wrote:Scouted Flagstaff, they have tractor supply...harbor freight...dollar stores/general..and a walmart. I can work with that.


Okay, that makes me interested right there.

The property in NM I was looking at has come up a bust and I want snow.  I know Flagpole gets snow.  My problem is I need high speed internet for important things like my education.  I use a ton of data.  The property I was looking at in NM was wired for fiber optics.

Do you know what kind of internet(if they have any) is out that way?


I once,went to Daytona State for Computer Engineering,  and recently again for Network Admin. if i cant arrange internet out there noone can. Upon initial inspection i figured id have to use an intown cable provider couple with a laser digital relay to a modified dish +cable to a WiFi router for broadbsnd access without data limits as about 1mb/sec minimum...but there may be an easier way...time will tell
 
Ryan Tollmann
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Btw i am a mason, i did not want yo work in an office and wear kakis and a button up...besides construction workers are a better ckass of people imho...
 
Deb Rebel
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Ryan Tollmann wrote:Deb i realize OK is tricky, but this is coconino county and you have (and a delinquent owner ) three years to fix the tax situation or the county treasurer sells your land outright. Between that initial delinquency and thecthree yr aniversery people can bid on the interest of a lien and the owner can remedy the delinquency. IF they want the land back. I been there,seen it....it takes a special thpe of person to attrmpt to make that dryland an oasis...and most people have niether the time or inclination...or the knowledge. Thats why its perfect for permies...they enjoy the challange. I will be purchasing mine before winter..but ill be wintering in phoenix where its warm for the first year. I have a few friends that want in..but they are not permies or,even survivalists...but they want to be. They love the idea of sharing equipment and helping build homes...grow gardens and greening the desert.. (though technically its not,a desert)., it definitely needs greening. Hope some experienced permies jump on this bandwagon the county would love to see the area flourish.


Someone mentioned Oklahoma so I added what I've been through. The parcels in Arizona do look attractive, but I have gained two acres in town and set my roots here. Had it been a little over a decade ago I would be tempted.

Here, they sell the tax liens every year, after more than one year delinquent, and after three years if someone has bought up the liens for the property, they can sue to foreclose and claim the property. If nobody buys the liens on a piece, after three years (about 3.5 years total) it goes to open auction. If someone owns less than three of the liens, it goes to auction, and the lienholder can show at the auction and try to purchase it. What they've paid for liens will be credited to them if they win. If not they get their lien money back.

During it all up to the auction sale day, the owner can pay up and the property comes off the list. If someone owns a lien, then the lien has to be paid by the owner and the person gets their lien $ back.

I hope a new permie settlement can get started there, in Arizona. I plan someday to go see the Grand Canyon and it would be great to visit a Permie group. I have relatives in Missoula so I hope to visit if I don't Sepp vacation out there some day at the Lab.
 
Pete Casanova
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Ryan, I just tried to do a homestead thing. I crashed and burned for various and Sundry reasons. I think I'm tough enough to try again and I would really love to do it on a piece of ground next to someone else who is of like mind. I'm older than dirt but very healthy and I am hoping that this ground that you were talking about has no dirt bikes. on my piece of ground I have built solar panels by soldering together solar cells and I dug a hole 22 feet deep hoping to hit water with a post hole digger. I build rammed-earth walls out of discarded tires. I would like to know more about you and would like to let you know more about me. My wife wants me to let you know she is an artist and we love peace and quiet. one of the things I did on my piece of ground was create ponds with tarps and I was able to collect water from the rain. and yes we hauled our  water and know how to conserve.
 
Natasha Turner
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Location: Kentucky knob region
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Wish I could come, but we're committed to other things right now. Sounds like a great opportunity, and I hope a good group of people join you!
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