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"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."-Margaret Mead "The only thing worse than being blind, is having sight but no vision."-Helen Keller
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Permaculture...picking the lock back to Eden since 1978.
Pics of my Forest Garden
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"The rule of no realm is mine. But all worthy things that are in peril as the world now stands, these are my care. And for my part, I shall not wholly fail in my task if anything that passes through this night can still grow fairer or bear fruit and flower again in days to come. For I too am a steward. Did you not know?" Gandolf
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"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."-Margaret Mead "The only thing worse than being blind, is having sight but no vision."-Helen Keller
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"People may doubt what you say, but they will believe what you do."
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"The rule of no realm is mine. But all worthy things that are in peril as the world now stands, these are my care. And for my part, I shall not wholly fail in my task if anything that passes through this night can still grow fairer or bear fruit and flower again in days to come. For I too am a steward. Did you not know?" Gandolf
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."-Margaret Mead "The only thing worse than being blind, is having sight but no vision."-Helen Keller
? Surely they understand the importance of exact terminology, being so scientific.It's time to get positive about negative thinking 
-Art Donnelly
Permaculture...picking the lock back to Eden since 1978.
Pics of my Forest Garden
It's time to get positive about negative thinking -Art Donnelly
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"People may doubt what you say, but they will believe what you do."
nancy sutton wrote: I'm surprised that 'scientists' don't seem to know the difference in the terms charcoal and biochar...
“The most important decision we make is whether we believe we live in a friendly or hostile universe.”― Albert Einstein
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"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."-Margaret Mead "The only thing worse than being blind, is having sight but no vision."-Helen Keller
Idle dreamer
"People may doubt what you say, but they will believe what you do."
I should have said, "than some would lead us to believe".Clearly ancient amazonian Terra Preta was not created using a syn gas generator, but may have been a lot more sophisticated and scientifically manufactured than some would leave us to believe: that these incredibly stable and productive soil system where built by uncivilized people by random chance.
I agree. I was speaking specifically of the anthropogenic soils known as Terra Preta, and that some people are not convinced that these soils were built specifically/purposefully rather than being, for instance, large waste middens which included char from home cooking fires which later became productive soils by more random biological than designed scientifically by a tribal horticulturalist.Charcoal making is an old technology (4000 years old or so). It isn't "random."
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."-Margaret Mead "The only thing worse than being blind, is having sight but no vision."-Helen Keller
Still sounds like an outdoor only system. Interesting design idea, though. I have been trying to wrap my brain around incorporating a retort into a rocket stove system, but I have never been able to find anybody who has come up with anything, and I haven't been able to figure out a way to do it myself. I would love to have a RMH that has a retort in it that could be inside. I like the possibilities of your design. If you build this, please create a thread about it in this forum, as well as the Rocket Stove forum.It is basically just a 6" j-tube with a 55 gal drum around it that is insulated with rock wool. I am going to use the small inner barrel from my other biochar process, put spacers to hold it up an inch or two and put it over the top of the j-tube "chimney". Once I get the fire going, I will put another 55 gal barrel that is open on both ends on top of the first one and around the small barrel. I should be able to get higher temps and use much less wood to cook the gas off the small barrel.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."-Margaret Mead "The only thing worse than being blind, is having sight but no vision."-Helen Keller
"People may doubt what you say, but they will believe what you do."
Permaculture...picking the lock back to Eden since 1978.
Pics of my Forest Garden
You are probably right about my A); what I was meaning more was that people are saying that the char making temperature must be within certain parameters or it isn't bio-char; they are talking about resins and such that remain in the wood, while oils which go gaseous at these temperatures are burned off in the process. I agree that this might be out of the realm of most DIY'ers but the simple retort does manage to do this, from my understanding. B) is definitely a lot more of a loose definition, and definitely serves the purpose for the general definition as far as I'm concerned, though I tend to want to aim for the best possible product that I can create.your A). In my mind, that describes making charcoal, at least commercially, and by most DIYers. Even throwing wood in a pit to burn and covering it with dirt before it turns to ash is a "specific pyrolitic technique". If by C) you mean using much higher temperatures to create the charcoal before inoculating it, I would agree that that is preferred because it makes "better" biochar, but not necessary, and may be out of the realm of possibility for many DIYers. Therefore I use your B) as my definition.
I think there are some basic ideas on that, but, I agree it would be nice to see some definitive studies.Another area I would like to see studied would be geared toward finding the optimal amount of biochar added.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."-Margaret Mead "The only thing worse than being blind, is having sight but no vision."-Helen Keller
I agree. I really like the idea that the gases are being used to reduce his wood fuel consumption for heating. Considering that he is getting bio-char while getting all of the regular benefits of the conventional wood stove, and reducing his fuel load, it might be worth the extra attention. ??The video you posted of the guy making it in the wood stove is interesting and I love the idea, but it's fairly attention intensive and the amounts are pretty small unless you do it several times a day as he does. A cool idea though.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."-Margaret Mead "The only thing worse than being blind, is having sight but no vision."-Helen Keller
Roberto pokachinni wrote:
I agree. I really like the idea that the gases are being used to reduce his wood fuel consumption for heating. Considering that he is getting bio-char while getting all of the regular benefits of the conventional wood stove, and reducing his fuel load, it might be worth the extra attention. ??The video you posted of the guy making it in the wood stove is interesting and I love the idea, but it's fairly attention intensive and the amounts are pretty small unless you do it several times a day as he does. A cool idea though.
Permaculture...picking the lock back to Eden since 1978.
Pics of my Forest Garden
1
![[Thumbnail for temperature.jpg]](/t/63896/a/49032/temperature.jpg "Filename: temperature.jpg
Description:")
Permaculture...picking the lock back to Eden since 1978.
Pics of my Forest Garden
What is the basic diameter and depth of your pit? Is it lined with stones?I do all my biocharring in the open pit method like Pacific Biochar used to do, only my pit is smaller and I think a bit more controlled. It burns very cleanly and because it's a smaller system it's easier to do some cooking on or to boil down some maple syrup over. I love making it this way...you basicly get to enjoy hanging out by a fire pit while making a large pile of Biochar.
Yes, it would make some sense, but as you say, pure conjecture. We have no idea how it was made. I'm of the opinion,extrapolating in a similar direction, considering the masses of immense jungle trees and the masses of green leaves that were available on clearing an area for building a village and garden (which may be slowly migrating through the jungle), I feel that it was likely a long trench fire with the excavated material nearby. This makes more sense to me, especially when one considers that they were using limited stone tools to chop the wood as few times as necessary. My guess is that they chose a spot where they wanted to create a garden bed, probably on the shady edge of the clearing, and dug the trench there. I figure that they put whole logs in the trench and lit fires along it, and once the logs were involved in the flames to the desired amount, covered it with soil. They probably added pockets of leaf wrapped food stuffs for a ceremonial feast which was attached to the whole "new village & garden" project. I imagine that the next day some of the char was exposed and used as a latrine, and inoculated with some of the leaves and their other wastes before being slowly mixed with the soil that was in the trench, over time as more waste was created and as more perpetually encroaching jungle was slashed back.I highly suspect that this was the method used in the amazon, but who can say for sure. My pure conjecture on that is that they may have made their Biochar in an open cooking pit, then added the food and buried it to slow cook in this earth oven. Then when you remove the food you quench the Biochar if needed and shovel it out so that your pit is ready for the meal and the Biochar is available to be used in a latrine. Again, pure conjecture, but it would make a lot of sense.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."-Margaret Mead "The only thing worse than being blind, is having sight but no vision."-Helen Keller
Permaculture...picking the lock back to Eden since 1978.
Pics of my Forest Garden
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."-Margaret Mead "The only thing worse than being blind, is having sight but no vision."-Helen Keller
What controls do you suppose are benefiting your system when compared to the Pacific Bio-char system?my pit is smaller and I think a bit more controlled.
Holy frijoles!I get about 150 gallons per fire or so.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."-Margaret Mead "The only thing worse than being blind, is having sight but no vision."-Helen Keller
Roberto pokachinni wrote:Thanks for your input, Greg, and thanks for posting that graph. Where did the graph come from? What sort of container do you use inside your wood stove in the winter?
Permaculture...picking the lock back to Eden since 1978.
Pics of my Forest Garden
Roberto pokachinni wrote:What sort of wood (species) are you making your char out of? Is it dried? Is it small wood or large chunks?
What controls do you suppose are benefiting your system when compared to the Pacific Bio-char system?my pit is smaller and I think a bit more controlled.
Holy frijoles!I get about 150 gallons per fire or so.
Permaculture...picking the lock back to Eden since 1978.
Pics of my Forest Garden
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."-Margaret Mead "The only thing worse than being blind, is having sight but no vision."-Helen Keller
Permaculture...picking the lock back to Eden since 1978.
Pics of my Forest Garden
1
Never can tell what the universe has in store for a guy. If a five years ago I was asked what I'd be doing now, I would never have guessed a railway welder. I'm sure Hawaii would be great, but I have a hankering also to head out to New England and the Canadian Maritimes one day. ... not in the foreseeable future though. Too many projects and not enough time out from the day job to even get them done. "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."-Margaret Mead "The only thing worse than being blind, is having sight but no vision."-Helen Keller
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It's time to get positive about negative thinking -Art Donnelly
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![[Thumbnail for start.jpg]](/t/63896/a/49097/start.jpg "Filename: start.jpg
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Permaculture...picking the lock back to Eden since 1978.
Pics of my Forest Garden
![[Thumbnail for middle.jpg]](/t/63896/a/49098/middle.jpg "Filename: middle.jpg
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Permaculture...picking the lock back to Eden since 1978.
Pics of my Forest Garden
![[Thumbnail for quenching.jpg]](/t/63896/a/49099/quenching.jpg "Filename: quenching.jpg
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Permaculture...picking the lock back to Eden since 1978.
Pics of my Forest Garden
![[Thumbnail for end.jpg]](/t/63896/a/49101/end.jpg "Filename: end.jpg
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Permaculture...picking the lock back to Eden since 1978.
Pics of my Forest Garden
nancy sutton wrote:Ditto Greg... thanks for all the detail!
Permaculture...picking the lock back to Eden since 1978.
Pics of my Forest Garden
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Good night. Drive safely. Here's a tiny ad for the road:
two giant solar food dehydrators - one with rocket assist
https://solar-food-dehydrator.com
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