really saving energy - eliminate the clothes dryer

Wes Cooke wrote:Buying wool clothing will solve many of the issues that come about with the elimination of dryers, especially for the cold weather folks.

I wear hella wool, it's one of the things which allows me (and others around me) to live comfortably, but moist wool at freezing temperatures is exceedingly cold and miserable even in layers. Trust me I live in a cool climate and have been doing this to the max for almost 8 years now.

That said a 10$ Korean War era GI wool shirt is THE MEASURE of what an hour of labor can get one to my mind.

Also: Don't use dryers with wool

Yes, minimizing the need for dryers is even more prudent than trying to make them more efficient. Western concepts of cleanliness are often driven by germ phobia. I grew up wearing things once and then my mom washed them, and continued that habit for quite some years (except I did the washing) until I realized how wasteful and unnecessary it is. Similarly, obsessive bathing is counterproductive. If one refrains from regularly destroying the skin's acid mantle and exterminating probiotic skin organisms, a natural balance will be achieved and body odor won't be offensive. That advantage will extend to clothing, because there is no stink to impart. Regular saunas are an excellent way to cleanse and rejuvenate the skin by bathing it with compounds it produces precisely for it's own health. Ditch conventional soap, except for touching up greasy kinds of stains that don't naturally dissolve. Wool is a key ally in this strategy; Wes is 100% right about its antimicrobial properties. Unless it's actually soiled, an airing out is all it usually needs. Silk's pretty good too. At least stick with natural fibers and avoid plastic clothes and especially socks and shoes. If anyone considers adopting this regime, they can expect to be regarded as some kind of weirdo, but only if they tell folks--they'll never find out via stench. I met an old guy up here once who was a local character. He was driving a forklift around his extensive junkyard. He hopped off the thing, shook my had with an iron grip and introduced himself as "Dirty Pete," He told me he hadn't had a bath in 13 years. Pete launched into an explanation of how our skin manufactures oils and other substances to preserve itself and that washing these off is one of the chief ills of modern civilization. He lived in a shack in the yard, (which had been a Superfund cleanup site; he said the Feds tried to force him to move, but he told them "I went through three wives and 13 kids right here and we're all just fine). He was 92, and made it to 96 (I'm guessing without any further bathing), so he might have been onto something.

As far as efficiency, the spin thing sounds like it uses minimal energy. I'm assuming it must spin faster than the spin cycle on a washing machine, unless it's just for folks who wash by hand. One could even line dry them afterward. It's below zero for months here every winter, and I'm wondering if moisture would just sublimate if you used a clothesline. Seems like I read someplace once that some people did that, although the success of it might depend on air circulation and humidity levels. I don't think it would work if hoarfrost was forming on things outside.

So, I wear my clothes for many days before washing ( don't use deodorant, soap nor shampoo and nobody smells me... I ask... even my wife ), my mother hangs her clothes in her garage with the doors open for a cross breeze, I live in Florida! What I was thinking about was putting up a greenhouse to dry my clothes because in Florida, it could be a bright and sunny day and while you were inside, it rained! Another great Idea I had was to take the Solar Dehydrator from the 3 of Diamonds in the permaculture deck and make it a water-proof solar clothes dryer. I noticed that Scott Patrik mentioned this above (props Scott).

Here's a quickie drawing of what that would look like. I hope that more of us can find better ways to clean clothes and dry them. Happy New Year!!!

We never had a clothes dryer when I was a kid, we couldn't afford such a luxury, we hung clothes in the basement

It really is that easy, we have 3 kids and live on a farm, on wet days the kids seem to go through at least two changes of clothes because they can't stay inside all day. We have never had a drier. One month we only had 3 sunny days for the whole month. When it is cold, wet and damp, the clothes take longer to dry then a hot sunny day, obviously! But you can still dry them. Even inside the contribution to humidity is minor, maybe similar to having a shower.

Bottom line is that all those people who say "what about this....." should just fkn try it, and then they will know the truth. For most of the world, a clothesline is normal.

Another thing about air drying your clothes indoors in the winter is that the drying clothes humidify your dry house or apartment. If you washed them in a washing machine, the spin cycle has them well on their way to dry.

Years ago, my mother had hooks over various doorframes inside her house, so when she had a load of wet clothes, she would run the clothesline line down her hallway and around the corner into a bedroom. It worked so well that I did it in my NY city apartment, and it worked wonderfully, especially in NYC where apartments are so hot and dry all winter.

When you are not drying clothes, just put the line away (or leave it looped around one end or the other.)

Primitive tribes seem to wear only what they need for the situation. The primitive tribes are probably far more involved in a permaculture lifestyle that any of us will ever achieve.

Nudists probably have half the laundry than those who wear clothes all the time. Just like a lot of the ideas for energy conservation, perhaps eliminating a lot of the need for cleaning clothes, is a first step.

I didn't even know what a clothes dryer when I was a kid.

I live in an area surrounded by the Amish...in cold zone 4 Wisconsin. They dry their clothes outside year round. Their clothes still dry fine on the line in subzero weather, and ours do too. We also have lines inside our home to function stack with helping humidify our dry air when the mercury plummets.

I've dried on a clothes line my whole life in Colorado where it's sunny all the time. I want to warn newbies to turn their colored T-shirts and good sweaters inside-out when drying in the sun or the sun will bleach out the color and ruin your good clothes. I live in Washington State now---yup, rain, rain!! My sunny-day line works great but in the winter, I've got a problem. I don't heat the house much (58 degrees) so clothes will mildew before they dry and indoor mold from accumulated moisture is always a problem. Any body have any ideas?

At home mom would run the laundry through the wringers then hang it out, in all temperatures. At -20 or colder the stuff would turn board stiff but somehow most of the water would leave, she'd bring it in and leave it stacked in the basket in the tub for awhile than hang it or roll it to be bagged, refrigerated, and ironed. Yes I'm this old.

If you are not in an urban where your air 'tastes' and you can have a 'fudge factor' OR you have a neighbor upwind that's burning wood; you can hang your laundry and it works well... here in the summer we can have single digit humidity, 95f and a 25mph sustained wind. Have enough line to peg the entire load and by the time you get to the end, go back to the beginning and unpeg your dry load. (jeans and sweatpants have to wait for you to come out with the next basket. And the washer can't keep up. My "Solar Powered Eco-Green Dryer"' varies in efficiency but usually the weather and season will make it outdo a dryer any time... and I need the exercise.

I have a dryer because I broke my foot one fall and couldn't do the hobbling to use my line. And a few other dings and injuries in the last five years that I do use it. In winter because of our low humidity I have a ladder rack in the bedroom that I can hang on a hook in the ceiling (else it hangs on the main hook against the wall) and fill it for 'free humidity' to dry overnight.

Hint: if you and spouse/partner/roomie are different heights, have the one that uses it the most hang the line. My darling hubby decided one day my line sagged too much and rehung it. If I tried I could whip a towel end around it, and tossing three wet blankets over it I still couldn't reach, so I brought him the basket and pins. Thank you for volunteering to take over the laundry. Wha? I can't reach, you must want to do it as you restrung the line. He redid the stringing and he hung that load.

Do make sure if the giraffe is going to do the pegging, that there is a bit of line for the more vertically challenged house members if they need to hang something!

IMO, about the most energy efficient and water efficient way to clean clothes is a wringer washer and clotheslines. My current washer is a 60 year old Maytag that was $5 at an auction. You can adjust agitating time and water use infinitely, to your own needs. My usual routine is to wash the next load in the rinse water from the last load, starting with the light clothes. Others wash all the loads in the same water, then rinse them all in the same water, but our stuff is generally to dirty for that to work well (we have 3 kids under 8, and we are building a homestead. Dirt is our constant companion. . )
Then, dry on the line. In freezing weather, I dry stuff that is needed soon on racks inside, the rest on the line outside. A pair of the really cheap fit-everyone winter gloves under a pair of rubber dish gloves does a fair job of allowing clothes hanging without frostbit fingers.

Several helpful ideas here. Wool dryer balls-- never heard of those before!

We wash no more than a load a day so we can hang it all indoors in the winter. Here in Wisconsin, we need the humidity because winter air is so dry. We use the dryer to save the time and energy use of an iron on clothes that need to be wrinkle-free, but only to take out the wrinkles (we hang them to dry after 5 minutes in the dryer). Summer, hang it all outside.

Dehumidifiers are expensive energy hogs. We've lived in winter-humid areas of the Pacific Northwest. My favorite solution there is build a new house with lots of passive solar heating, and plenty of ventilation. A wood stove or a heat pump hot water heater would help also.

Bonnie Poole wrote:I've dried on a clothes line my whole life in Colorado where it's sunny all the time. I want to warn newbies to turn their colored T-shirts and good sweaters inside-out when drying in the sun or the sun will bleach out the color and ruin your good clothes. I live in Washington State now---yup, rain, rain!! My sunny-day line works great but in the winter, I've got a problem. I don't heat the house much (58 degrees) so clothes will mildew before they dry and indoor mold from accumulated moisture is always a problem. Any body have any ideas?

Wood stove! Or break down and use a dryer in the winter. Minimal use of a dryer is cheaper than a dehumidifier or dealing with mold. When it is 100% humidity things cannot dry. You have to add heat or remove the moisture some other way.

Switch your wardrobe to quick drying base layers and avoid washing slow drying stuff until the weather cooperates.

Cris Bessette wrote:Now, if I go out and get sweaty, then that stuff gets washed because I know people have a harder time smelling their own body odor than other's .

In the winter, I easily get a week from a pair of jeans. In the summer when it's 90-110F with 80+% humidity, everything I wear more than two hours gets washed. Just walking out to the car to get something will work up a sweat.

I did an eliminate-the-dryer experiment the other day. It was between 22 and 24 degrees outside (even though it was nice and sunny). I hung out several pairs of pants anyway. Of course, they froze stiff. But I noticed when I brought them in that once they thawed, they were nearly dry. By the next morning, they were all dry but very much softer than when they line dry normally. Just my 2-cents for anyone worried about hanging out clothes when it's really cold.

Landon Sunrich wrote:I wear hella wool, it's one of the things which allows me (and others around me) to live comfortably, but moist wool at freezing temperatures is exceedingly cold and miserable even in layers. Trust me I live in a cool climate and have been doing this to the max for almost 8 years now.

I believe it, I'm betting that every material would be miserable when moist and in freezing temperatures though. That's where some waterproof shells would come in... which is getting way off topic.

As mentioned previously, native populations and pre-1900 population got along just fine without dryers, in all climate zones. Doing so now just requires the sacrifice of a little convenience and comfort. Force yourself to try it for a month, and it's amazing how quickly the mindset adjusts and some dormant skills and problem solving comes into play.

I dry clothes on a rack in my room, except for shirts that dry on plastic hangers, right in the closet. I do this summer and winter now. The house is heated three seasons. Overall it works well here in Boston, MA. This saves energy and it's easier than a dryer, too.

A few side comments... if you are hang drying do make sure of the surface below, some things may DRIP at the start.

If you truly need that article of clothing faster, get out your iron and iron it dry. I have done this in a pinch for unmentionables especially (most of ours are 100% cotton so they will steamflash dry with a careful ironing).

I live in an area with so much summer fog that sometimes the clothes simply will not dry outside even if I get them up at daybreak! I have two solutions. The first I have to thank my son's girlfriend for, if I have to use the dryer do not use the heat. just let it tumble around in air, some loads are actually dried more quickly that way. ( I thought she was crazy, but I tried it and now I think she is brilliant) The second I found out of desperation, I truly believed I had no room to set up any racks, no material for racks etc. scavenged in the attic and found a discarded shower curtain rod. Set it up over an unused bathtub and used hangers to hang the clothes and used existing rod for socks and other small stuff. Only word of caution-watch the weight or it will come down.

Bonnie Poole wrote:I've dried on a clothes line my whole life in Colorado where it's sunny all the time. I want to warn newbies to turn their colored T-shirts and good sweaters inside-out when drying in the sun or the sun will bleach out the color and ruin your good clothes. I live in Washington State now---yup, rain, rain!! My sunny-day line works great but in the winter, I've got a problem. I don't heat the house much (58 degrees) so clothes will mildew before they dry and indoor mold from accumulated moisture is always a problem. Any body have any ideas?

Put a fan on it. I have the same issues and I always keep a fan on in the house if it's too cool to leave the windows open. or it will mildew. everywhere. everything. ew. A couple of drops of tea tree oil in the rinse helps too-especially if you don't want to use a fan. Don't like the smell? Use palmarosa. divine. I leave some in an oil burner to prevent mildew issues in difficult to heat rooms and it really works great! (House built for big family-empty nest now and will not use the forced air for myself)
A side note, if your windows sweat clean the wood (or plastic or metal-whatever yours are made of) with tea tree oil so you don't get mildew.
That is one of the biggest sinusitis causing problems we have in the PNW and most people overlook it.

Gina! Thanks! Great suggestions. Bon

Gina, LOVE the idea of using the tea tree oil to prevent mildew. We have some of the same problems, particularly in the spring and fall when the house just seems "wetter." We've also insulated and generally "tightened" our house, so condensation is a big deal. Thanks so much! I'm off to find my essential oils....

Eliminate clothes...I am partly serious here. One need not look much further than the closet (figuratively) of the people that were living there long before you[I hate the term indigenous, and in this case it's not even really appropriate]. If your textiles and fabrics will not dry naturally or even rot, then it is highly likely that your material doesn't belong there and you are needlessly consuming resources to keep it there. I am not saying that people in tropical areas need to ditch their duds for a sweet genital gourd or loincloth, but look at least at materials that work in those conditions. Linen is actually strongest when damp. Some synthetic undergarments are basically hydrophobic. If you want to live in the PNW or some other rainforest and hedonism or dryers aren't your thing, sorry but polyester or mildew is likely going to be your lot in life.

Morgan...

Linen, interesting, never really thought about that in regards to clothing.

Any idea what the "people living long before us" in the PNW or the west coast wore, especially during the cold seasons?

Cold wet indigenous clothing is my latest fascination, after every style of modern wet gear I have failed. Oilskin is rather amazing stuff!!!

I still can't figure out footwear for my pansy feet, I am betting most wore sandals down into mukluk weather. If I could figure out mud boots, I could live with HUSP approved clothing and be comfortable here.

Most of the energy used by a clothes dryer is for heating the air. If a quarter horsepower motor where used to drive airflow and tumbling,  the machine would use 1/5 of a kilowatt hour per hour of use. That's 2 cents worth around here.

I have seen dryers with their heater disconnected,  that draw heat from the top of a wood stove. This is a good compromise for those who don't wish to give up their dryer completely.

Used dryers are often given away for free,  once the heater goes.
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For about eight months of the year, I do most of my clothes drying in my van.

There's a bed in the back, which is generally covered with some sort of bedspread. I wash clothes at the laundromat, usually two loads at a time. They are spread on the bed and on other surfaces. Drying is a one day process on most days.

This is the only air-conditioning I use other than occasionally opening the window. I've also dehydrated fruit in the van.

If the weather is hot, my body becomes the dryer. I wear wet shirts and sometimes pants as a means of cooling.

A few years ago I went to visit my daughter and her husband in their apartment in Denver. They have a 1 bedroom on the top floor and have a skylight (a little too efficient solar energy collector),probably the reason for a lower rent in that apartment. The place was way too warm to sleep, even with the living room and bedroom windows open and the outside temp in the low 80s because they can't afford to run the AC. We tried a window fan, but it didn't do much good (air coming in the window to go out the same window via fan. So we jury rigged some cardboard,cutting it to fit so it to blocked the whole window except the fan and opened their bedroom window. Within a few minutes the temperature was much better, especially in the bedroom. They loved it and used it from then on.

On my next visit the weather was quite a bit hotter and even with the fan going the living room was kind of warm. So we bought some 1/2 inch PVC with elbows and T's and made little rack to lean in the bedroom doorway and hang wet cloth towels on it. The fan pulls the air past the cloth and makes an improvised swampcooler. Even on a hot day, with their skylight, it keeps the apt. nice and cool. They keep the rack behind the bedroom door when it's not in use.

The plus was they had started using a small hand operated washing machine because the apartment complexes washing machines were pretty expensive, but they were still was using the dryers because the complex had no clothes lines. Now my daughter keeps the apartment cool and all their clothes dried on the little rack (the clothes dry quickly with Denvers dry air). I think that is pretty good, considering they have a baby (a very efficient dirty clothes generater).

It might not be so great in a humid place, but out west it works fine.

Mick, good that it's working for them in Denver. Only issue I'd have is their air quality or lack of it. Some days they have it pretty brown, and I'd worry about that drying into/onto their clothes.

And yes they can have some serious solar gain during the summer, plus increased UV. (I lived at higher altitude a moderate drive from there for a few decades....)

Wes Cooke wrote:


Any idea what the "people living long before us" in the PNW or the west coast wore, especially during the cold seasons?

The Coastal Salish bred white wool dogs on some of the isolated islands around here. They'd do mixed weaves with a bunch of stuff, particularly fireweed cotton. Ceder was also woven for hats, shirts, and robes. They also had fires to dry off by, which one mostly doesn't need except during that damn freezing fog phase change weather.

Mick, good that it's working for them in Denver. Only issue I'd have is their air quality or lack of it. Some days they have it pretty brown, and I'd worry about that drying into/onto their clothes.

And yes they can have some serious solar gain during the summer, plus increased UV. (I lived at higher altitude a moderate drive from there for a few decades....)

I've never thought about air pollution polluting the clothes. I need to think about that more. It occurs to me that when you use a clothes dryer, it still blows air from the outside through your clothes. I think the high heat might have a greater chance of locking pollution from the air into/onto the clothes. Then again, maybe the heat would break apart the brown. I don't really know. Either way, it's pretty diluted. Drying inside definitely looses the bleaching/sterilization of high intensity sunlight for your white clothes. It also looses the bleaching effect on your colored clothes..

If you live in a place with air pollution, no regular dryer is going to filter that out more than however polluted your indoor air is anyway. Besides, that dryer isn't doing any favors for the air quality over the long run.

Loose, is not tight. Lose is no longer has. I hate that spelling error. Other than that....

It is a concern to me having lived major urban for a number of decades, I moved back to where air tastes like air, and if you look to the horizon you don't see a brownish layer hanging there. Unless you're using air filtering/cleaning; and have a fairly tight residence; and are drying your clothes in that space; you are going to have whatever is in your air, on your clothes. And probably concentrated on your clothes. Just a mention.

You don't realize what is in your air until it's very hot summer and your neighbor upwind has an animal 'fertilizer' issue and it's being sucked into your swamp cooler... by same token they can thus also gift your laundry drying outside with that same LOVELY 'fresh line dried SCENT' ... (this can mean showing up at their door with rake, gloves, trashbag, and offering to give their backyard a TLC session... just to keep the neighborlieness up and for your own survival-the gift that will keep on giving) (though a wind shift and a ticked off girlfriend when it gets sucked into THEIR swamp cooler (evaporative cooler) at full industrial strength works much better)

When it comes to solar drying, I like to see a mixed use unit. The same racks that dry clothing, can  be used for drying herbs and other garden produce. With these, you get the sunblocking and you still get plenty of outside air flowing over the clothes.

A very simple flat plate collector mounted against the south side of the house can provide hot air for both of these purposes and for space heating. It needs to be a flow-through design where fresh air enters continually.  A recirculating model would not work but it could become a recirculation unit simply by blocking the outdoor intake.

I prefer to dry clothes outside, but it's just too windy here. Also, if I do the laundry in the evening, I don't want to have to wait till the next day to hang it. Or worry about rain, etc. So...

In a spare bedroom I strung lines above head-high from one side of the room to the other. The lines are attached via hooks so they can be removed quickly if desired (though we never do). No heat source, but it's low humidity here, and usually warm enough for clothes to dry without a problem. I can wash and hang two large loads of clothes at a time. There are also storage racks in the room for sorting and storing the dry laundry. This works very well.

This is the clothing rack I've been coveting.  I just don't have a good spot in my house for it.  http://www.firespeaking.com/media/articles/the-ultimate-laundry-drying-rack/

I made a really simple rack with 3' long sticks hanging by twine from the ceiling.  The sticks are what I hang the clothes on and it makes a semicircle around my wood stove (which is in the corner).  This creates a chimney effect for the heat coming off the stove and it dries the clothes really fast--much much faster than using a rack that sits in front of the stove on the floor.  I'll have to post a picture.  That is my go-to for winter.  During summer, we use an outside line and lines on the screen porch.  I have lines up near the ceiling of the porch around the edges so the clothes hanging down doesn't get in the way.  This works great as we tend to get storms in the afternoons.  It takes longer to dry under the porch but they don't get soaked by a surprise rain storm so end up drying faster on average (I'm not always there to bring the clothers inside).

I love air drying my clothes--it sanitizes, makes them smell great, and is a whole lot cheaper. But, I can only do so at most 6 months out of the year .

It's simply too moist here--either with humidity or rain. And, since I live on a north-facing slope surrounded by trees, dew settles on the clothes once the sun sets behind the trees, which happens at 7:00pm on the summer solstice and 1:00pm on the winter solstice (sun doesn't get over the trees until 10:00am in the winter, either).I tried multiple times last year to dry my clothes outside in the fall and winter. It was simply too humid, even on the sunny days, for any real drying to occur. And, I can't dry them inside because the humidity in my house is always above 50 (usually 60) even in the winter, while heating with a wood stove. If I hang dry too many clothes inside, I get black mold. I'm not risking my health and my babies' health for the cause of air drying!

So, obviously, air drying clothes does not work for everyone all the time. And, that's just something I have to be okay with .

BUT, I have found ways to use the dryer less, even in the worst of drying conditions:

Build an extra big clothes line, or have multiple lines. This allows you to get a lot of laundry hung up on the few non-rainy days of the year.

Even if you can only hang up clothes for a few hours, do it anyway. It can shave a good 30 minutes or more off of the clothes dryer time, which saves money and electricity

Try as much as possible to get laundry hung up early in the morning. As the air warms up, it takes the moisture out pretty fast, even if it's still relatively cool

Put your laundry line in as sunny and windy place as you can. Make sure the clothesline is positioned to catch the direction of the wind, so figure out which direction the wind usually blows, and put your line there.

Even if you can't dry everything inside due to space or humidity issues, dry the few things you can, such as cloth diapers or undergarments. If humidity is a problem, just airdry the things that dry really fast, like flat diapers and wool covers or underwear. If space is the issue, be okay with air drying just shirts, socks and undergarments, and don't worry about the blankets and pants. Even one less load to dry helps.

Time the use of the dryer so that it stays warm, if you have to use it. Once one load is out, have the next ready to go in. And, if pants or other things take longer to dry, just let them dry more with the next load. Or, dry all the quick-to-dry things together, and dry the things like towels and pants that take forever together. That way you don't have two really long dryer times unnessesarily.

If you have a small load, like diapers or whites or something, wait to dry it with another load in the dryer. That way you're only running the dryer once, not twice.

Anyway, those are my clothes drying tips--hopefully they help someone!

The neighbors to the North came down for a treatment and the husband called the wife out onto the deck to see my clothes line.  They have even higher decks than mine.  There is a pulley attached to the post that holds the roof over the deck, then a cable around the pulley goes 100 feet to an apple tree limb with another pulley attached to a hook by a chain and turnbuckle for tightening.  There is enough height to hang a sheet full width from the line while standing on the deck then continue to roll the laundry forward as I hang more.  When dry I just reverse the process. The clothes pins stay in stay handy in their box by the post and I don't have to walk to the end of the line unless it jams or I have to pick the apples.

So if a clothes drier is 5kW and it takes 1 hour to dry a load of clothes, at $0.15/kw, that equals $0.75 of electricity. If you consider your time = money and you consider your labor value is $15/hr, that gives you 4 minutes/load to hang your clothes. (actual money saving + income tax saving) I've never timed myself, but, I don't think it takes that long to hang clothes.

Jotham Bessey wrote:So if a clothes drier is 5kW and it takes 1 hour to dry a load of clothes, at $0.15/kw, that equals $0.75 of electricity. If you consider your time = money and you consider your labor value is $15/hr, that gives you 4 minutes/load to hang your clothes. (actual money saving + income tax saving) I've never timed myself, but, I don't think it takes that long to hang clothes.

The clothes have a different texture, and unless you're in a highly urban location, don't smell of 'stuff in air', and... here we have chronic low humidity so hanging in the house helps with humidity... and outside it can be just plain pleasant when it's 95f and sunny and wind at 25mph... have enough line to peg a full load, and by the time you get to the end of the line you can go to the start and unpeg dry clothes. Jeans and sweats, have to hang until next load. The washer can't keep up when the solar dryer is at full strength. I usually find it relaxing to hang clothes... and it seems to reduce 'pilling' to hang instead of use dryer.

I covet a hanging dry rack now that I've seen one for in the house.

Here is the drying rack I made that I was trying to describe earlier.  It is an attachment.