I lost all of my Brassica to some kind of caterpillar thing and maybe a moth also...

I'm figuring out what it is so I can post more... I link some photos...

This garden is new and starting with not so great soil... New house.. in Japan... I've started composting and mulching stuff.. but this year and next... soil probably needs a lot of help... So how can I control these things in the short term? Obviously I'm on this list cuz I like to do it naturally... but turning them all into compost is fine with me.

I think its mostly these sorts of things...

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%A2%E3%82%AA%E3%83%A0%E3%82%B7

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%A2%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B7%E3%83%AD%E3%83%81%E3%83%A7%E3%82%A6

I've lost almost everything.. but we're pretty far south so The sun is still strong even if it cools at night.. so even if I don't get a lot of food from this crop, if I can learn to control them, then I can either greenhouse or do better in the spring.

Whatever they are they don't touch dandelions or basil or other herbs... they like the sweet juicy broad leaves mostly.. though something messed up my carrots as well.



Thanks

What you got there are cabbage moths. You may have seen a small white moth fluttering around. They lay small black eggs on brassicas and then those green caterpillars will chomp the leaves until they take off and become the moths. Every morning i walk past my tree collards i rub the youngest leaves and pinch any tiny caterpillars i find. If you stay on top of it, it is pretty much a garantee they will be on the inner side of the youngest leaves. Once they start getting to be bigger you will notice bigger holes in every leaf. If you look closely you will see the black eggs and you can remove them with a jet of water or by blowing air. I have not tried any method of control other than manual removal. It is vital to do this daily so on a large plot of brassicas you might have to find another method besides manually removing.

I have a few strategies for dealing with cabbage moths.

They prefer eating some species or varieties more than others, so I plant varieties that are not as susceptible. For example, I almost never see them eating turnips or mustards. Plants with waxy leaves seem less susceptible. Plants with hairy leaves seem less susceptible.

I grow smooth-leaved plants instead winkle-leaved plants. That leaves fewer places for bugs to hide from predators: For example collards rather than cabbage.

In my climate they don't survive the winter, so they blow in on summer winds from warmer climates. I can often harvest spring crops before they arrive. So I don't grow fall brassicas to avoid the moths. I plant early maturing cabbages instead of late maturing.

I cultivate parasitic wasps by providing them with food (small flowers) and nesting sites, and by not poisoning my garden.

I'm seeing mortality of eggs at around temp 8 Cent... is this right? hmm.. so manual control.. anything on companion planting? here we can expect winter temps to dip below 0 which should start the timer over... If I build a small screen house or hoop... control them first by temp/manual... then by leaf type... will check on wasps... anything on natural pesticide or deterrent? Thanks

It's not my style, but floating row covers work great... The moths have to lay their eggs on the plant before it can be eaten by caterpillars.

As far as companion planting, my current tree collard is flanked with squash, lavender, goji, strawberry, lemon balm, spirimint, and a few others, but it has not deturred the moths from laying eggs. In my old forest garden i had good luck with using broccoli as a trap crop for the moths while i grew brussel sprouts, kale, and collards in another part of the garden, i dont know if companion planting aided that or of they just highly prefer broc. The moths seem to flutter pretty much all over, i have not observed them avoiding any particular plants.

I have not thought to try it but maybe DE on the leaf surface would kill The young caterpillars?

I have had success in planting my brassicas in amongst a large variety of other species, both flowers and vegetables--and weeds--at varying heights, and all planted pretty closely (no rows).

This year was a killer year for caterpillars here, and I didn't really follow my own advice, so I had heavy losses, especially my kale. However, some of them have begun to recover, especially the spring cabbage.


Here's a picture of my polyculture garden in June 2013. Can you spot the brassicas? Neither could the cabbage moths! I actually watched them fluttering around, knowing there was something there, but not being able to find anything and eventually flying off.

yep they suck. no matter where i have gardened these guys are around.

one way that i deal with them that seems somewhat effective , and at the very least is totally easy, is to put the hose sprayer on really high and focussed and spray them off. its a bit tedious, because i go over every leaf, use my other hand to hold them against the heavy spray. but it does seems to work ok, not completely get rid of them, but knock them back so far that its not as bad.

another thing i have done is a soapy water spray. sometimes i make a strong tea of pungent herbs - thyme, sage, oregano, garlic, etc...and then use that as the water part for making a simple soapy water spray . i am not sure if this is a huge improvement on just water or what, i dont do it very often though in the past its what i did more frequently.

  Cabbage moths are so pretty...but I'll be darned if they're getting my food.

  I've been picking off the occasional caterpillar and have found and brushed off what seem to be tiny eggs, doing it pretty religiously, yet they're destructive little varmints, aren't they?

  I've read that various aromatics will repel them, so I gathered some wormwood from nearby. I wove the stalks/leaves through the cages I have around the cabbages, and laid more on top of the mulch. I've been watching this morning and the moths are fluttering right by without even landing, so I'm optimistic.

  How long does the breeding season last? Any further suggestions? The cabbages are here and there throughout the beds, not in a row. Other than this, they are looking great.

   


 
 

Which species of Artemisia did you use?  I know A. vulgaris  (mugwort) will repel lice in a chicken yard, plus the chix love to eat it.

John Polk wrote:
Which species of Artemisia did you use?  I know A. vulgaris  (mugwort) will repel lice in a chicken yard, plus the chix love to eat it.

  I thought it was wormwood (that would be absinthum??) but it may be the mugwort. Will have to look that up. Nicely smelly.

I've heard nasturtiums can act as a decoy crop - cabbage white butterflies love them.

Wasps (mud dauber and paper wasps are the best ones to have around the yard, not red wasps) LOVE the caterpillars and will happily eat all they can get to. The suggestions about smooth leaf crops might help, and make sure there are nesting places and water for the wasps. I get along well with paper and mud ones, and have not been stung by them, I just give them right of way. I put effort into killing off the aggressive red wasps, who will kill off the calmer ones, and are aggressive to people too, (I did get stung once by them) and encouraging the calm ones. Seems to help the caterpillar problem a lot.

I quit growing cabbage, broccoli and similar crops in a traditional way. I got seed of as many different things as possible and planted them in fall. Got some little harvest of leaves before winter and those that survived winter grew very well early the next season, before the bugs arrived. I kept at it, letting them all cross and replanting each fall until they just went kind of wild. I don't get cabbage heads or broccoli or Brussels sprouts, but we do get lots of tasty leaves, bloom stems and stalks. Harvested at the right time the stalks are very good.
The cabbage flies and worms don't arrive until later in the season and by then the temperatures are hotter and the flavor and tenderness of the stalks and leaves is declining anyway. At that point as long as the worms don't completely kill the pants and prevent seeds, I'm ok withe them eating the leaves. Swarms of the little butterflies are quite pretty and great pollinators of any anything else in bloom.

I select mostly for flavorful, tender stalks. I call it broccolish.

...but we do get lots of tasty leaves, bloom stems and stalks. Harvested at the right time the stalks are very good.

Can you please describe when is the right time? How do they look?

Joylynn Hardesty wrote:

...but we do get lots of tasty leaves, bloom stems and stalks. Harvested at the right time the stalks are very good.

Can you please describe when is the right time? How do they look?

I think it's mostly weather/maturity related. Large stalks stay good as long as the weather is cooler and there is plenty of moisture. By July seeds are starting to mature, and the stalks start getting tough and don't taste as good. The smaller branches of the seed stalks are a bit like asparagus in that if you just bend them, they break at just the right spot. Bigger stalks are good sliced into coins about 1/2 inch thick, sauteed in butter or olive oil. As they mature more the skin starts getting tough and stringy, but they aren't hard to peel.  You can harvest a lot and over a several weeks just make sure to leave enough for seed.

If you ever enjoyed eating the core of a cabbage head, you would probably like the big stalks. They are fantastic grilled.

Sometimes a plant grows lots little brussel sprout like things except they are very loose but they sure are good. Same when one grows what looks like a head of cabbage but also very loose. You can harvest the cabbage looking ones and the plant blooms anyway, you can harvest as many of the brussel sprout ones as you want and it just grows more. The all grow flower clusters, like very loose broccoli.

I don't remember how many kinds I originally planted but I'm pretty sure most all that survived the first winter were cabbage and brussels sprouts and maybe some broccoli. No collards or cauliflowers lived. O' and kale, lots of it lived but I don't let bloom much. Kale was already plenty hardy here and we don't like it as much and I don't what my new vegetable to be overwhelmed with it.

I originally thought I would like the seed pods, but they are not good as they are usually tough and stringy. Mustard, turnip and especially radish pods are very good.