Hobbit Home Progress.

Jay Angler wrote:Soooo... you don't have to mow artificial turf, but you do have to weed it - seriously! I met a guy on his hands and knees struggling to get tree sprouts out of his artificial lawn without damaging the lawn part.

Is the issue with plants dying that you have too many extremes? Dry, wet, cold, heat? Can you narrow down which of the extremes did in your early attempts?

I'm not convinced that you can't fix the roof problem other ways. Giving us permies a list of what you've tried, and what you think killed those tries, might give us ideas of how you can fix it naturally.

For example, have considered rocky mulch with succulents?

My first instinct is to agree with Jay.  There must be a way to fix your problem without resorting to artificial turf, which my gut tells me is a temporary solution at best.  It will degrade in time, needing replacement and, I suspect though I couldn't elaborate, giving rise to unforseen problems along the way.

Better in my opinion to have just mulch than to have, essentially, synthetic carpet on your roof.  Perhaps a rock mulch would be a good place to start, as Jay suggested.  Over time, observe what weeds establish in the rock mulch, and that might provide clues how to proceed with a green roof.

But in the meantime, yes, please elucidate: why do you believe your current green roof is dying?

Jay Angler wrote:
I'm not convinced that you can't fix the roof problem other ways.
For example, have considered rocky mulch with succulents?

Still doing research on this, but while i was doing that the turf idea came up.  

Researching different soil amendments, ground covers ( compost, straw ) to layer on top so perhaps the micro clover will not burn off so fast....

8 inch root depth is a limiting factor.
Full open sun adds to that.

Purchased some succulants from the garden center, planted last year - now dead.

I know you don't have the leak problem, but this article, after describing various problems with them, gives advice at the end on how successful living roofs have been done by them.

The most successful roof we have used is the one that makes use of a thick waterproof layer and then “planting trays” with pots of sedum.  The sedums are low-growing and make for easy replacement.

Maybe 'plant' the pots instead of the plants?

Are you allowed to have solar panels up there?

Dave Lotte wrote: Still doing research on this, but while i was doing that the turf idea came up.  

Researching different soil amendments, ground covers ( compost, straw ) to layer on top so perhaps the micro clover will not burn off so fast....

You are in a tough climate - very cold winters and very hot summers that are getting hotter.

Plus you're on a budget, both time and money, so Coydon's suggestion of "mulch and see what shows up" has merit. Not all succulents are created equal. I have a friend who has friends that are all succulent experts, so I'll bounce the question over to her and see if any specific suggestions come back. It *is* possible to start succulents from seed as she's doing that now in plastic take out trays so not high tech! This may have to be a multi-year project...

An organic straw spread lightly over the micro clover would add "shade" which may be helpful. Some punky wood inoculated with mushrooms, might add some mycorrhiza that would support plants also.

I'm also aware of the problem that if you add things to the soil to hold moisture during droughts, you're also adding weight to the roof when things are very wet! Generally, you're looking for the soil to drain, not hold water, and relying on the plants to cope without dying. Very tough requirements!  

To be honest, I would suggest that whatever you try, you do so in just a 3ftx3ft patch or so and see how it goes. Once you find plants tough enough to cope, you can expand from there.

Jay Angler wrote:
I'm also aware of the problem that if you add things to the soil to hold moisture during droughts, you're also adding weight to the roof when things are very wet! Generally, you're looking for the soil to drain, not hold water, and relying on the plants to cope without dying. Very tough requirements!  

To be honest, I would suggest that whatever you try, you do so in just a 3ftx3ft patch or so and see how it goes. Once you find plants tough enough to cope, you can expand from there.

Not too worried about weight right now... ever since i contacted the engineer and asked for the specific numbers.
This roof is engineered for 16 inches of topsoil - 88 tons - i only have 8 inches or 44 tons.
The snow load is rated for 3 feet of heavy wet snow - last year i did get a full yard stick depth - and then it rained. No movement inside at all.

Thinking the same thing for a test patch.  Center of roof -  4 inches of compost - 4 inches of straw- next spring throw in some micro clover seed and wait.

Coydon Wallham wrote:
Maybe 'plant' the pots instead of the plants?

Are you allowed to have solar panels up there?

Still looking into some type of grass to plant - already have 4 Kw of solar, and adding more is $$$

Matthew Nistico wrote:
But in the meantime, yes, please elucidate: why do you believe your current green roof is dying?

.

Its not dying.  Its dead.  Planted micro clover, burned of off to dry soil.
Now its just whatever weed is up there. Planted a variety of test plants among the weeds - none survived.
Micro clover was REALLY NICE .... 5 different kinds of bees, lush and green with white flowers....
Going to try the mulch and straw idea next to bring that back.

Just came across this during my walkabout.

Two days ago this was gravel.  Will say it does look nice now....
What happens though in 4 or 5 years when there is a bit of composted nutrients in there and the weeds start getting a permanant hold ?

I would make an effort to plant things that aren't too invasive that will help to outcompete any weeds that come along. 'Hens and chicks' succulent comes to mind.

Dave Lotte wrote:Two days ago this was gravel.  Will say it does look nice now....
What happens though in 4 or 5 years when there is a bit of composted nutrients in there and the weeds start getting a permanant hold ?

What would be the worst part of just letting the weeds colonize your roof and calling that done?  It wouldn't look so great, but functionally it would serve the purpose, no?  A weed roof would require some maintenance, too, but you've already prepared yourself for a green roof maintenance routine.

Or perhaps, as I mentioned previously, let the weeds colonize temporarily and then use the most successful of them to guide you towards plant families that might work for you.

Matthew Nistico wrote:What would be the worst part of just letting the weeds colonize your roof and calling that done?  It wouldn't look so great.....

😁😁  
Looks like wether i like it or not, that is what is happening
😁😁

Had to take the weed eater up there and chop it all down, and it still went brown in the heat ,  but it is a green roof.
Once i get to work outside it will be a different matter....

Edit :  the sun is too bright .... i couldnt see my thumb in the way 😂😂😂