I remember a few years ago getting an ACTUAL PIE in the mail from someone at Permies. An honest to goodness Huckleberry Pie from Glacier Park, MT per the postcard that is hanging on my wall.
Was that tied somehow to these "pies" (non-edible) here on Permies?
You know in the spirit of Permaculture there should be some return of surplus! People generating great content should get a slice of the pie; cash/profit sharing. It seems like a great way to support the whole community of active contributors in their lives and might even help dedicated people get free of of wage slavery. Supporting each other. I hope some day to see more permaculture in business and in real life; you know co-operation vs competition. When you give you always get.
Dan alan wrote:You know in the spirit of Permaculture there should be some return of surplus! People generating great content should get a slice of the pie; cash/profit sharing. It seems like a great way to support the whole community of active contributors in their lives and might even help dedicated people get free of of wage slavery. Supporting each other. I hope some day to see more permaculture in business and in real life; you know co-operation vs competition. When you give you always get.
It's a great idea, and already in place.
Have a read of the first post in this thread, it talks about how to give PIE to others.
A few kind people have given me PIE because they liked my posts. I really appreciate it, I couldn't afford the premium content otherwise. I've given extra PIE slices to posts I've enjoyed.
Having a PIE giving (and conciquently a PIE earning) ability levels the playing field. It makes it so the community isn't divided by income bracket, like so many other sites.
There is (or will be soon I'm told) a feature where once you earn enough PIE, you can cash it in for money.
Forgive me for heavy editing your post here Paul. I just want to comment on your idea of creativity and experimentation.
paul wheaton wrote:Two points:
1) I've made lots of things that people thought were stupid in the beginning and then it was obviously cool later.
2) Try 100 things. 2 will work out and you never know in advance which 2.
It could turn out to be that I'm a dumbass (READ: misguided) and this will be a faceplant. But I am very hopeful.
The "what ifs" of the future and what can be is rolling through my head by the hundreds. I think that this might turn out to be one of the best things we have ever done.
One of my favorite permaculture practitioners is Gabe Brown of Bismarck North Dakota. He regularly talks about experimenting with new ideas every year --- new cover crops, new grazing strategies, new equipment, etc. One of his statements is that if he is not failing at something every year, he's not trying hard enough.
One good idea can change the world, but sometimes you need to blow through a lot of substandard ideas in the winnowing process to sort out the great ideas from those less profitable. Two metaphors: the first is broadcast seeding. Farmers regularly toss a lot of seed out, fully expecting that a lot of that seed will not germinate or will root in poor spots and eventually die. But those seeds that do grow will return a significant harvest. (There is a parable about this in the Bible). This is the very essence of seed bombs.
The other metaphor is about waiting for lightning to strike (in a good way). One idea, when struck by lightning, can change your life and change the world. It makes sense to put 1000 lightening rods out there on the hill tops and expect that sooner or later, one of them will get hit.
Throw out the seed, set up the lightening rods . . . roll out the ideas and see what works. Then, in the words of Mollison, observe, interact, modify, adapt and experiment. I love the fact that you are seeking to run this website in the same was that a creative permacultureist experiments with their land.
Sorry. Two bucks a slice is too rich for us. And with the promise that the rates will go up, who knows where this will end up.
We're willing to financially contribute toward the distribution of permaculture information, but we're not that interested in getting locked into some sort of subscription service.
Also, we don't need to belong to any sort of "Elite." And, we're pretty sure we're not here to provide an increasingly good living to Paul, etc.
If someone likes the post you made, they can give you PIE!
Like you said, you are interested in contributing "toward the distribution of permaculture information." You can do this by sharing your own experiences with others who are just starting out. If you do that on this forum, that is enough to grant you entry into the 'elite'.
My own income is well below the poverty line for my country... and not much above the global poverty line. Buying PIE would mean less food to eat.
Thankfully, people have been kind enough to give me PIE. I write posts that other people find helpful and I get a reward for it. Soon, I'll have enough pie to trade in for cash (which makes an increase in PIE price even more awesome for me). I write tutorials, post them here, earn pie, trade in pie for cash - it's one of those residue income streams Paul is always talking about.
So, yes, $2 a month is pretty steep for some of us. I also think the PIE system honours the people care aspect of permaculture. For some people, $2 is half a cup of coffee, aka, nothing much. For those people, the pie system is a way of saying thank you when they learn something interesting on the forum.
Thank you for the slice of pie! I received it because I had 10 apples. I read the pie has an exp. date. So I'll figure out what to do with it. I'll give pie to a thread, but then I still have it (that's strange so then I can give it to an interesting post I like this
Kelly Smith wrote:[quote=Inge Leonora-den Ouden.... edit:
looks like someone gave me a pie slice. i didnt earn this one via apples
Yes, I found out that's possible too. I gave my slice of PIE away. Then someone else gave me two new slices of PIE!
So now I'll have to find new goals for my new PIE
I think devaka has added a new feature where pie users can ignore threads.
So if you look at the "recent" list and you see threads that are of no interest to you, you can open the thread, click on "ignore" and that thread will be minimized.
There is also a new feature where you can track the threads that you have and have not read and how far you have read, and when you look at threads, there will be a marker that shows you how far you read before - and visiting that thread can even take you to that marker.
We are also adding a lot of new features to make sure that all of the things that people liked in the old view are present in the new view.
So here, in the information on PIE, is the link to the information about apples. But when I searched 'apples' I did not find it!
I want to thank Cassie for giving me a slice of PIE. It helped me find this information
Trust me, I am happy Pie exists, and I am even happier I had some funds when Paul discounted whole pies somewhat and I bought bulk to support the cause.
I am even happier though, to have been made a "pollinator" and can hand out apples. For 10 apples you are awarded a slice of pie, which gives you a month of 'extra benefits'.
Keep on earning, buying, and passing around of pie.
If you can write a post that a pollinator thinks is Great and In The Spirit of Permies, they can grant an apple, and 10 WILL give you a slice of pie. There are a number of us wallowing about, and as a Pollenator, I'm not above awarding a year old post an apple if I just found it on a meander.... so. Apples are important too!
Loving appleville and striving to keep my ratio of posts to apples at 10:1. It's a lofty ambition. I do try. It is cool to be wandering the forums and find a really good post and give someone their first apple. I sure know when I finally got my first one it was a really big deal... heh. Spread the apples
So rather than convert cash to some form of other "worth" like Bitcoin, how about a simple gift card to Amazon, or whatever? I can email that to you direct, it's instant, no waiting, no fees for you and you can use it however you like. You know, like piping for your next rocket heater, a screw gun for your next project, gas for your mower, whatever. (I would not be surprised if Amazon does sell gasoline actually.)
Would that work?
The problem with Bitcoin is all the flipping waiting. They almost want a high resolution scan of my colon from both directions before I can even buy Bitcoin. (Typical of governments when something is new. "Let's regulate this to the point that nobody we don't "trust" can use it." (Read, trust to mean big business and rich folks on the inside that can afford the fees involved, etc AND support the Congress person next election goal with big money.)
Gift card is electronic- you could get that today.
If you are dead set on Bitcoin, well I will have to schedule the examinations with my Doc... that's going to take a while. I guess I don't mind.
OR,
Maybe you know of an easy to use, "Here's my money, now give me my Bitcoin" site? It seems like Bitcoin was designed to be digital cash, but let's face it, government hates cash- unless you are paying it to them.
Or OR,
Can you enable your PayPunk account, (PayPal) to allow guest transactions? Then I don't have to setup an account with them. (Seriously, PayPunk has grabbed me more than once by the short-hairs and bent me over- and always at the WORST possible time. And it's for some whinny person that wants to complain over the most microscopic thing, like a month after they have the goods.)
So now that the preaching is over, would an Amazon, Visa or Master Card or other "digital gift card" to your email account work for you? I saw that a lot of Bitcoin dealers will take an Amazon gift card or a Visa\MC equivalent. So I thought, why go the long way round? Why not just send the card direct? Paul can convert it to all the Bitcoin he wants after that.
And to add to my long windiness, how does one submit a FREE product for you or your folks to try out? No strings, don't need it back even. Just tell me what you think in as few words as you feel it needs. I am in real need of honest feedback and I have heard you enough to know, that subtly is not your thing. That kind of honesty is EXACTLY what I am looking for. I don't need more reasons why I should continue with this device I invented. It's a great idea. But sometimes great ideas are not what the market wants. I need ideas that challenge my understanding so that I can reasonably dispel any self deceptions.
(sorry for the delay in my response - i had a big surprise yesterday that ended up pretty much wiping out my day)
how about a simple gift card to Amazon
Sounds fine to me.
The problem with Bitcoin is all the flipping waiting. They almost want a high resolution scan of my colon from both directions before I can even buy Bitcoin.
The thing I really like about bitcoin, at the moment, is that somebody paid me $400 for something in january and now that has grown to more than $2000! It is a warm feeling right now. Of course, it could drop to $2 any moment now - or blow up to bigger still.
Can you enable your PayPunk account, (PayPal) to allow guest transactions?
What is that?
And to add to my long windiness, how does one submit a FREE product for you or your folks to try out? No strings, don't need it back even.
Start a new thread in the tinkering forum. We've done a few product reviews like this so far. I think the staff has done mostly book reviews, which has filled out the book review grid rather nicely:
Apples are anonymous but maybe certain staff members can see who gave who apples. Pie can be a little different. When you're logged in, click on the word Pie at the top of the screen, and you'll see the My Pie Transactions and in there it ought to say who sent you the pie and it may include a little note, unless the pie giver chose to send anonymously.
I was just poking around in the control panel. I realized that the price of PIE was set to really low in an effort to introduce them. Same goes for the apple to pie conversion. And we have now added a LOT more pie features and we still have a lot more PIE features coming.
I just changed the apple-to-PIE conversion to 20.
I am going to leave the price for a dozen pies (144 slices) at $100 for a few days. But I put the price of pie back up to the intended price for a single slice or for a full pie.
So for those that have been thinking of getting a dozen pies, you would want to do it now.
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so then I can give it to an interesting post 
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