Permaculture Inner-circle Elite (PIE)

Great idea Steve! Let's pie some folks!

Prices have now gone up for an individual piece of pie. But now we have a price for a dozen pies which is ... sweet!

Here is the current list of features that devaka is working on for pie people:


every time a person gets X apples, they then get a piece of pie

currently existing options moving to just pie people:
hide the farmer/moose
show link to PM/email
Keep track of threads read on a thread by thread basis

ability for me to buy back 12 pies.

pie people can add two more forums to a thread

pie people get a bigger signature

ability for pie people to add two thumbs up; ability for thumbs down

Pie preference checkbox: show time in customizable time zone rather than "2 hours ago"

ability for pie people to see, in a thread, how far they have viewed in the past (tied in to feature "Keep track of threads read on a thread by thread basis")

private user notes for pie people

pie option: each thread listing in each column for the 3 views with columns, show all forums a thread is in instead of just one.

pie option: show breadcrumbs at the top of threads for each forum

"best algorithm":
ability to configure three columns on home page as
- most recent of forums with more than ___ acorns
- best of ____ days

ability to make your own "best" algorithm by selecting how many thread
points are granted for each factor

ability to influence "best" algorithm with people that you favor or disfavor

I wasn't thrilled with PIE... and that's probably the first time I've ever said that!

Not because I think the idea was bad, but the earlier list IMO was either A: useless crap I don't care about or B: normal expected forum stuff that everyone had but the new design takes away. There is still some taking away and reduction of usability that came with the new design, but this is a non-issue IMO as long as the old format is an option; hopefully that is remaining.

This latest list is way better!

I'm not likely to pay for pie regardless, but the update puts it much more in the category of 'cool bonus stuff that I'd like, if I didn't have pick between PIE and real pie'... rather than, 'they made this forum really shitty to use unless I pay money, so I'll use it less'.

Two points:

1) I've made lots of things that people thought were stupid in the beginning and then it was obviously cool later.

2) Try 100 things. 2 will work out and you never know in advance which 2.

This is still a work in progress. But I am getting pretty excited about the potential.

I think I might be the only person that see this and believes this: I think that in a year, pie will be quite popular. I think there will be more than 60 people that bought 12 pies - and they will give those pies out regularly. In two years I think there will 150 people. And here is what I see:

The people that come here and share excellent wisdom will start accumulating a lot of pies. By the end of the year, a dozen people will have cashed in pies.

Even more - we could evolve this into a residual income stream. People can configure their account to say that when they have 13 pies, to automatically cash in 12. Maybe through bitcoin. And their old posts continue to be awarded pie as other people show their gratitude.

Even more: when somebody is stuck and they ask a question ("what do i do!") and somebody posts an excellent answer, then there is now a great way to say thanks. Give a piece of pie - or a whole pie.

On a lot of the sites of the internet, good people go and give good help and the trolls come out and say awful things. Or stupid people say accidentally nasty things. So this might be the one place on the internet where trolls are discouraged and good stuff is actually rewarded. Where being awesome and sharing and helpful can be an income stream. And, best of all, a residual income stream.

It could turn out to be that I'm a dumbass and this will be a faceplant. But I am very hopeful. What if the hundreds of pictures that evan and fred have posted start to turn into an income stream? What if all the helpful posts from people like walter jeffries start turning into a different sort of "sugar mountain"? Is it possible that extremely knowledgeable people that also happen to be very good writers start to share and help more and more? What if, years down the road, they get to the point that they are getting $50 per month from old posts?

The "what ifs" of the future and what can be is rolling through my head by the hundreds. I think that this might turn out to be one of the best things we have ever done.

Do logged in users who do NOT have pie see the ability to buy pie for other users? Both for a post and for an account?

If so, could somebody please test that feature and let me know if everything worked okay?

Pie features list has been updated. Devaka, have I left anything out of the pie features?

I have also updated this thread to be the new "wiki page with comments" - meaning that the first post can now be freely edited by anybody on staff. Currently, some wiki pages can be freely edited by pollinators and staff, or anybody.

I wanna take this moment to say that a few people have given me pie. And even though I can take all the pie I want, I wanna say that this has been appreciated. It inspires me to spend more time on the forums.

I really appreciate that we can earn pie.

At first I was so sad there would be a divide between the privileged people who pay for access and all the rest of us peasants. Having the opportunity to earn pie removes a lot of the problems that occur with that financial divide. My thoughts are that by giving people a chance to earn pie, you'll be able to tap into a whole resource base of awesome people who love to participate but have financial limitations.

I think that your system is going to motivate more people to write useful posts. I know it's going to motivate me. I mean, just look at how much of an apple whore I've been... now I can earn pie as well... So excited.

I love the idea of supporting a site like this. I find this forum helpful and inspiring. I especially appreciate the work the moderators do to keep the conversations positive and helpful.

Soon, Devaka and I will give out a lot of pie to people that have 15 or more apples.

And shortly after that, we will have the feature that when you get 10 apples, or 20 apples ... Devaka and I will give you an extra piece of pie.

Now it is possible that there could be a bug in the system, and we wish to resolve this.

On the other hand, there are choices to be made about how these algorithms work. Devaka is very worried about offending somebody. He is bringing up all sorts of edge cases. He is worried that some people might be concerned about "fair" or that some people feel they should have received a piece of pie based on a variety of scenarios. I am telling Devaka to not worry about those things. As long as the algorithm is consistent, it will all be a flavor of "fair" in the long run. After all, this is more of a fun gift - not an obligation.

I graciously accepted my first slice of pie for my review of the Permaculture Playing Cards. It was a big spirit lifter on a particularly rough day so thank you again.

So far I like the whole idea and as soon as I return home and don't have to type on this damn phone I will hopefully be able to earn some more.

As always, keep up the good work Paul and fellow permies. You people rock my socks off.

paul wheaton wrote:Soon, Devaka and I will give out a lot of pie to people that have 15 or more apples.

... Devaka is very worried about offending somebody. He is bringing up all sorts of edge cases. He is worried that some people might be concerned about "fair" or that some people feel they should have received a piece of pie based on a variety of scenarios. I am telling Devaka to not worry about those things. As long as the algorithm is consistent, it will all be a flavor of "fair" in the long run. After all, this is more of a fun gift - not an obligation.

My sole motivation for sharing my ideas and projects is to help further the greening and shading of the planet.

If somebody is offended about not getting a pie, or apple, or thumbs up for their thread or post, they may need to sit down and ask themselves some serious life questions.

paul wheaton wrote:
ability for pie people to add two thumbs up; ability for thumbs down

I know it might be silly but this is actually one of the features I'm most looking forward to. Does it truly matter one damn whit? No, but silly fun is still fun.

Dan Boone wrote:

paul wheaton wrote:
ability for pie people to add two thumbs up; ability for thumbs down

I know it might be silly but this is actually one of the features I'm most looking forward to. Does it truly matter one damn whit? No, but silly fun is still fun.

And fun is so very fun!

I put a request in to devaka that while he is in there fiddling with this, if he can make it so I can do more than two. If I get it, I hope to find an opportunity or two to totally abuse my powers.

I'm not entirely sure how this works, but I suspect that sometime around 11:59pm ranch time on january 31, everybody that has any pie will have one piece of pie dissolve.

So, a few thoughts ....


I suppose it is silly to buy a single piece of pie near the end of the month, because it will only last for one day.


I suppose it is wise, if you have only one piece of pie, to give it away before the end of the month. That way, you still seem quite generous.


I suppose somebody could help a friend and give them a piece of pie, the friend then gets all the goodies for pie people, and then gives the piece of pie back before the end of the month.

paul wheaton wrote:I'm not entirely sure how this works, but I suspect that sometime around 11:59pm ranch time on january 31, everybody that has any pie will have one piece of pie dissolve.

Why is the one piece dissolving?

Cassie Langstraat wrote:

paul wheaton wrote:I'm not entirely sure how this works, but I suspect that sometime around 11:59pm ranch time on january 31, everybody that has any pie will have one piece of pie dissolve.

Why is the one piece dissolving?

Each piece of pie lasts one month.

I'm not sure, but I think all of the pieces dissolve at the same time.

Hmmmmm .... i just went and looked at the pie link which shows my pies. They have an expriation date that is not at the end of the month. Maybe there is a lot more to these algorithms.

Maybe if a person's pie is about to dissolve and they have only one piece of pie, then they can give it to somebody, and it only has hours left.

paul wheaton wrote:

Each piece of pie lasts one month.

Oh shit, I have been completely out of the loop regarding expiration dates of my pie.. I was hoarding all my pie because.. well.. I am frugal and weird and like to save up things, even virtual pie.

I am now aware of said expiration and will start being less stingy with my pie.

I think that a couple of weeks before your last piece of pie expires, the forum software will send you an email suggesting that you might wanna buy more pie. And I think it will do that a couple more times until the pie is gone.

I think devaka put a lot of thought into this stuff and it is a pretty sophisticated thing.

That makes sense.
Now if that is the case, I'd like to suggest a "pie-set" you could offer possibly...
A pie-set would almost be like a pie subscription, one slice a month. It could be set up as one 12-slice purchase. The system would dole out one slice per month for 12 months.
I don't know how much fiddling this would require but it would be easier for users than buying a slice each month to remain in the Pie Elite.
Maybe a bonus piece of pie could come with it (a baker's dozen) so they have one to give away at some point too (although part of the point of pie is to pass it on, I'm sure there will be some people who prefer to keep their single pie piece for the advantages it gives).