Permaculture Inner-circle Elite (PIE)

Penny Dumelie wrote:That makes sense.
Now if that is the case, I'd like to suggest a "pie-set" you could offer possibly...
A pie-set would almost be like a pie subscription, one slice a month. It could be set up as one 12-slice purchase. The system would dole out one slice per month for 12 months.
I don't know how much fiddling this would require but it would be easier for users than buying a slice each month to remain in the Pie Elite.
Maybe a bonus piece of pie could come with it (a baker's dozen) so they have one to give away at some point too (although part of the point of pie is to pass it on, I'm sure there will be some people who prefer to keep their single pie piece for the advantages it gives).

Devaka is working on it now.

The idea is that you could tell the system that you wish to buy a piece of pie each month, or a full pie each year.

I suppose there should be the option to buy a full pie each month.

I'm still getting up to speed on this thread.

R Ranson wrote:
At first I was so sad there would be a divide between the privileged people who pay for access and all the rest of us peasants. Having the opportunity to earn pie removes a lot of the problems that occur with that financial divide. My thoughts are that by giving people a chance to earn pie, you'll be able to tap into a whole resource base of awesome people who love to participate but have financial limitations.

I just want say "me too!" When I first apprehended the notion of pie, I saw it as a way for people to support the empire financially and get fun goodies in return. Fine in the abstract, but emotionally neutral from my perspective because our household is deep in financial-survival mode; a non-essential expenditure gets the double or triple fish eyeball before it happens, and supporting other people's good works (or buying fun goodies for that matter) haven't been making the cut very often lately.

So I was all "meh, doesn't affect me" and didn't think on it much. I think I was aware that pie could be handed around but I didn't spare much thought for what might motivate that, or expect that I'd have any. Now that several people have given me pie (thanks!) it "feels" very different than I was expecting. It's like a super-apple, a gesture of appreciation that has some tangibility to it. I think lots of people will enjoy it, even the ones who don't buy it. And there are just enough fun goodies that go with having pie that (even if I never buy any) I'll probably hoard enough of the pie I get to make sure I don't run out.

I really like the pie thing, and thanks for the slices that I have received!

One small group of suggestions: The slice of pie is supposed to expire monthly, and I suggest that it actually be a monthly expiration. Rather than, for example, a pie that is given or purchased on the 25th of January only lasting until the 31st before it vaporizes into oblivion, I would suggest that all pie slices last for 30 days from their day of obtainment. In this way, all people who receive pie have 30 days (a month) of pie benefits.

Also, a slice of pie could potentially be passed on, and it's 30 days invigorated to full stature, by someone giving a pie slice away to someone deserving of pie with a brilliant thread or post. This encourages encouraging others and sharing and gets pie into more of the population without a major loss. This second pie feature I just mentioned could be only for the first year, just to get the system really rocking and comfortable with a larger group in the forums; after that first year of boosting the system, the slice of pie would only have a 30 day lifespan, and the person who has pie would be encouraged to give the pie away early, if they want to be generous and rewarding to others, and then buy some more themselves.

Hi Roberto I think the PIE feature is really great and yup! it's for sharing. If I am not mistaken if you give away a slice it's expiration date gets stretched and so the slices continue to live on passing from permie to permie.
I think the concept is to share a slice for great contributions and create a cycle of pies that are on the table.

I once wrote that permies for me is like the auditorium at Wheaton labs where we are sitting down around big round tables with a tag on each one for forums or threads titles, well the PIE makes me feel this even more. I'm going around between the tables with my slices on a plate and when I hear (read) something I like I just share a slice. I love sharing a slice and an apple together when possible so its apple pie!
I like the fact I don't know how many slices others have or at least I don't know where to find this info, and don't think it is important even if I could. I like the fact I receive slices for what I share here.

paul wheaton wrote:Soon, Devaka and I will give out a lot of pie to people that have 15 or more apples.

And shortly after that, we will have the feature that when you get 10 apples, or 20 apples ... Devaka and I will give you an extra piece of pie.

And now we are just doing that!

If you have 15+ apples right now, you should have received some pie by now. (please let me know if you had 15+ apples but didn't receive pie). And from this point forward, we will be giving out a piece of pie every time you receive 10 (subject to change later) more apples.

Got my apple pie (pie from apples). Thank you kindly.

I have also recieved pie from my apples.

Got mine. Thank you.

got mine too

Ditto! Got my pie, and I'm very glad that there's now a way to earn pie (and with more pie in circulation, more people will likely be giving it away. Which makes more pie for everyone!). It's also make me even more motivated to make sure I give out my one apple/day to someone so that they, too, can earn some pie .

Now I just can't but wish we had a PIE Smiley (but one better than my sad attempt...)...



Edit: Yes, I've edited this like a million times, because I kept trying to fix the pie smiley, lol!

Which piece of pie did I give away?

Let's say I have 3 pieces of pie. They don't expire any time soon.

Piece 1 expires soonest
Piece 3 expires last.
Piece 2 is in the middle.

I liked someone's post so I threw a piece of pie at it. Did I toss pie piece 1 or pie piece 3? I wasn't paying attention to my expiry dates at the time.

I see above, that if it's tossed on the expiry date, the pie gains extra shelf life. But what about in the middle of the month?

Just asking for curiousness, I'm totally good with it being pie piece 1, 2 or 3.

How do I use my new found pie to add more forums to a thread?

Zach Weiss wrote:How do I use my new found pie to add more forums to a thread?

do you see a bit of text above the thread to the right that says "add to forum" and then there is a little drop down menu right next to it?

The "Add to forum" box and button in the upper right of the thread beginning:

so... as a pie person, I can write a post in cooking, but also put it in frugal without having to pester ask the staff to do it for me?

R Ranson wrote:so... as a pie person, I can write a post in cooking, but also put it in frugal without having to pester ask the staff to do it for me?

Yeah. But then, I might not have seen that thread. Now, I'm hungry for (some kind of pork &) beans !

Can someone confirm for me that the add-to-a-forum feature is working for pie people?

I have that tool available to me all the time, and I'm not sure if it's there for pie people yet, or still in the pipeline. Or is it pie-line...

Burra Maluca wrote:Can someone confirm for me that the add-to-a-forum feature is working for pie people?

I have that tool available to me all the time, and I'm not sure if it's there for pie people yet, or still in the pipeline. Or is it pie-line...

I just tried it on my Fern thread, and it worked wonderfully. Yay! No more having to create more work for the moderators!

Also realized that the option comes up on other people's threads, too. And, yes, it works when I try it. I added https://permies.com/t/53072/trees/hybrid-chestnuts-seeds-europe to "Europe." Is this something I can do because I'm a Pollinator, because I'm a PIE user, or because it's an error in the system?

EDIT: Having this sort of power is both tempting and scary. I'm currently resisting going over all the "Most Recent Posts" and cross-referencing them all to their applicable threads. And I should totally be in bed right now, too. *Backing away from the computer.*

Nicole Alderman wrote:Is this something I can do because I'm a Pollinator, because I'm a PIE user, or because it's an error in the system?

Because you are a pie person! A pie person can add a thread to a maximum of 3 forums.

Devaka Cooray wrote:

Nicole Alderman wrote:Is this something I can do because I'm a Pollinator, because I'm a PIE user, or because it's an error in the system?

Because you are a pie person! A pie person can add a thread to a maximum of 3 forums.

But, I thought it was supposed to just be my own threads, not everyone's .

OK, so it's working, but maybe a bit better than was first anticipated.

Is it *too* scary having that much power? (you have no idea how scary it is with the number of tools I have access to...)

Would it be better to start off with just the ability to add your own threads to other forums?

I don't know if it was too scary or not, but it was definitely unexpected. I worry that I'll cross-post their thread in a forum they don't want it in, or that unsavory folks might cross-post in non-helpful forums. "With great power comes great responsibility" and all that. But, the likelihood of that is pretty low, especially since PIE users are people invested in this forum. And, I kind of have a feeling that most people don't take categorizing things nearly as seriously as I do, and probably wouldn't care in the least bit if I or another PIE user posted their thread in another forum.

I think I'm adjusting to the power. I just have to resist going over all the posts and posting them in valid forums, lol!

I'm having a blast abusing using responsibly this new 'add to form' tool.

It's good to have pie.

R Ranson wrote:I'm having a blast abusing using responsibly this new 'add to form' tool.

It sure is addicting, isn't it!

The coolest part of pie [though one unlikely to develop for a long time] is the theory of a Permies-Exclusive economy, one in which the empire is fed during buy-in.

The empire is automated. I received a reminder that my pie will expire and I should renew it before the expiration date. This is pie I was given so that means when you give pie you are entering into a cycle of encouraging continued support of the empire.

Pretty cool huh?

With people buying pie we can provide more pie features. We can do more PI stop and give away more pie things.

I like the idea that what we're going to give away is worth far more than what the pie cost, so I kind of feel like people that are loving on us get far more goodies than the people that just use this site for their own stuff and not really part of our community.

Ian wrote: Maybe it's just me, but I'm not a huge fan of this idea. It seems like it will only give people with more money to throw away a greater voice and more influence on what gets talked about.

For what it's worth, I agree with Ian. We all know who controls political campaigns, and it's those who have contributed the most money. I have been "befriended" in gardening forums by people with regular chat names, it turns out are working for major corporations in all areas of GMOs, fertilizers, pesticides, nonorganic and definitely non-Permaculture. Sites like these that become successful have every major corporation trying to infiltrate it, collecting personal data and promoting themselves. I would hate to see that happen here.

Cristo Balete wrote:

Ian wrote: Maybe it's just me, but I'm not a huge fan of this idea. It seems like it will only give people with more money to throw away a greater voice and more influence on what gets talked about.

For what it's worth, I agree with Ian. We all know who controls political campaigns, and it's those who have contributed the most money. I have been "befriended" in gardening forums by people with regular chat names, it turns out are working for major corporations in all areas of GMOs, fertilizers, pesticides, nonorganic and definitely non-Permaculture. Sites like these that become successful have every major corporation trying to infiltrate it, collecting personal data and promoting themselves. I would hate to see that happen here.

I guess my position is the opposite.

Evan, for example, has not paid a single penny and I think he has about a dozen pieces of pie now. All from making excellent posts and people giving him pie.

I do know that people want us to develop a lot of things and they want us to do it for free and then those people will then want unfettered access to all of that. I think it is good to want things. At the same time, I'm spinning up a creative dance the come up with mysterious ways to pay for stuff and to move everything forward.

I think that this is one of my better ideas. People can contribute with dollars, or they can contribute with excellent posts. And then they get candy. And there is still Oodles of excellent material for free for people that don't contribute so significantly.

Further still: this can be a gift to somebody that has an extremely low carbon footprint.

I think the upsides go on and on and on. And I think we are just getting started. I think that a year from now it will be ten times more awesome than it is right now.

paul wheaton wrote:I think the upsides go on and on and on. And I think we are just getting started. I think that a year from now it will be ten times more awesome than it is right now.

Personally I'm still hoping to see pie evolve into a forum economy. I've seen this sort of thing work incredibly well before, albeit on forums of far less meaningful subject matter.

I received some beautiful, genetically-diverse, promiscuously-pollinated, landrace runner bean seed using Joseph's pie offer. They are GORGEOUS! I can't wait to get my seeds in the ground.

Thank you Joseph!