Coppice suitability of sumac

Hi there. Does anyone have experience using sumac for coppice? It seems reasonably dense, grows damn near anywhere, is almost perfectly round, and grows long, straight segments. However, I'm not familiar yet with how well it stands up to the test of time. Does it rot particularly quickly, for example? Anybody used it for coppice?

D.W.

I mentioned in another thread you started that I have to trim my fence line occasionally.  One of the culprits for me is all the sumac that grows there.  I can attest that it grows back year after year.  If you mow or cut yearly for several years, it does thin back, but used sustainably it is a great "weed" bush if you want the wood.

However, this brings us to the question of what exactly do you need this for?  Are you planning on using it for hugel mounds?  If so, then I would think that you could cut down and lay in place and it should rot fairly quickly.  Do you have any Autumn Olive?  I have lots and once it sinks down roots, it is there forever.  I use copious amounts for my annual Wine Cap mushroom growing.  It is a relatively soft hardwood (which actually means it is a non-conifer) that chips up easily.  Sumac is very similar, and might actually be easier to chip up.

My thoughts are that you could probably cut for two years, after which I would let it rest a year and then cut every other year.  You could divide your grove into two parts and cut one while the other rests.  Alternately you could use two grows.  Mine always grows back unless I mow it year after year after year at which point it dies down but does not die out.  

Long story short, yes, it does coppice well and I can think of all types of uses for those woody canes.

Good luck,

Eric

are you thinking of planting sumac? if it were me I would cut all the sumac down and plant something useful. some people suffer from effects like poison ivy from sumac. what is sumac useful for? it probably has its place in a truly wild forest.

if you want something that grows fast and has a few uses maybe maple trees. tap em in spring for syrup. great firewood and lumber in the future. or raspberries for a hedge. maybe I don't understand what you mean by coppice, please define it for if you would.

Bruce makes a good point about sumac.  You will want to make sure that it is not poison sumac.  Poison sumac contains ushoil, the active ingredient in both poison ivy and poison oak.  Personally I am terribly allergic to poison ivy, but my sumac does not bother me in the slightest.  Staghorn sumac is the most common variety and does not contain usoil.  This is something to consider before using the sumac plant.

Eric

Eric Hanson wrote:Bruce makes a good point about sumac.  You will want to make sure that it is not poison sumac.  Poison sumac contains ushoil, the active ingredient in both poison ivy and poison oak.  Personally I am terribly allergic to poison ivy, but my sumac does not bother me in the slightest.  Staghorn sumac is the most common variety and does not contain usoil.  This is something to consider before using the sumac plant.

Eric

Staghorn, no worries. 🙂

Excellent.  In that case I think you have yourself a steady supply of wood chips if that is why you want them.

Eric

My mom has kept a stand of sumac next to her house for decades.  She lets it grow as tall as the second story windows or so, then cuts it all down, not on any fixed schedule. It regrows fast.  You will get very straight, very round lengths of wood with few branches. I don't think it is good for much other than biomass, though.  It is light, weak wood--maybe because it grows so fast. I do not think it would be useful for fencing, at least not as supporting posts.  You could use the 1 year wood like cane or bamboo, maybe.

D.W. Stratton wrote:Hi there. Does anyone have experience using sumac for coppice? It seems reasonably dense, grows damn near anywhere, is almost perfectly round, and grows long, straight segments. However, I'm not familiar yet with how well it stands up to the test of time. Does it rot particularly quickly, for example? Anybody used it for coppice?

When you say "using for coppice", what do you mean. I understand what coppice is, but you coppice trees for a purpose. What is your purpose?  That matters to answering your question :)

#uses for Sumac (cf. this thread: https://permies.com/t/8963/berry/sumac)
The intense red color of Smooth Sumac in the fall was enough to make me save a few patches for accents in my shrub borders. Providing food for wildlife was also a motivation. Perhaps most importantly, the sumacs have many uses on the homestead, in addition to providing biomass:
1)  Smooth Sumac (Rhus glabra) and Staghorn Sumac (Rhus typhina) berries can be used to make "lemonade" in the fall.
    https://www.pbs.org/food/recipes/sumac-lemonade/
2)  Flexible Sumac stems (especially from coppiced Sumac) can be used for weaving (Rhus trilobata is suggested in these links but I hope to use the Rhus glabra that grows abundantly in my area).
    https://deborahsmall.wordpress.com/2010/01/16/basket-sumac-rhus-trilobata/
    http://navajopeople.org/blog/navajo-dine-basketry-weaving-video/
3)  Sumac leaves, stems, and berries can be used for natural dyes. Because they are rich in tannins, they can even be used without mordants.
    http://vikland.tripod.com/sumac.html
    https://katiegrovestudios.com/2012/10/21/plant-dyes-of-autumn-workshop-on-a-beautiful-autumn-day/    
    https://wendyfe.wordpress.com/tag/dyeing-with-sumac/
4)  Because Sumac has a soft core, it can be used for pipe stems.
    http://dragonflydezignz.50megs.com/littlefeathercenter/stem.html#:~:text=Sumac%20is%20used%20for%20fancy,fitting%20to%20the%20pipe%20bowl.
5)  Not really related to coppicing, but another use for Sumac to provide a side income on the homestead... bonsai!
    https://rockymtnbonsai.com/index.php/bonsai-tree-information/deciduous/rhus-sumac/

I have some staghorn sumac in an area that I coppice/pollard for firewood. I cut it the same as any other species in the coppice and use it as fuel for the woodstove, or biomass for hugelmounds. I am not picky about what I burn for fuel - if it burns, it provides btu's, btu's keep my family warm and cook food. Creosote does not happen as a result of fuel type, but as a result of slow/cool burns. Burn your stove hot and avoid creosote. Sumac grows back fast, and I have to coppice/pollard some every year.

I detest the sumac that we have. The wood isn't strong enough or sufficiently durable to be of use, it dries very light so isn't great for firewood, and the roots send up suckers over an ever spreading area. I have other much more desirable species to coppice, so sumac taking up the growing area is a net loss for me. If you have it, by all means use it (fuel, biochar, hugelculture?) but I wouldn't recommend planting it for any kind of woodcrop.

How would you coppice sumac? the one we have doesn't regrow from a stool like hazel after being cut but suckers up to 8-10 ft away so yes it regrows but it also "walks" around the place. Mine is surrounded by lawn so it's not to bad to keep in check but my parents came up all over, under and through their shed and eventually even made it into the greenhouse 20 ft away.

Skandi Rogers wrote:How would you coppice sumac? the one we have doesn't regrow from a stool like hazel after being cut but suckers up to 8-10 ft away so yes it regrows but it also "walks" around the place. Mine is surrounded by lawn so it's not to bad to keep in check but my parents came up all over, under and through their shed and eventually even made it into the greenhouse 20 ft away.

Pollard it - leave a trunk about head height