Anyone growing siberian pea, eleagnus, aronia, mulberry, serviceberry from seed?

Hi, I just got seeds from several interesting permaculture species, and I now have the challenge to make them sprout.

Many of these seem to require cold stratisfication in order to sprout.
Which is something I have little experience.

Anyone has had sown before the following trees:

- Cornus mas/alba
- Eleagnus angustifolia, umbellata (silverberry)
- Amelanchier (serviceberry)
- Aronia (chokeberry)
- Morus alba/nigra (mulberry)
- Siberian pea
- Honey locust
- Wax myrtle
- Sea buckthorn
- Manchurian apple

And the following shrubs:
- Yampa
- Biscuit roots
- Crambe maritima
- Turkish rocket
- Discorea/ Yam
- Bamboo (phyllostachys)
- Good king henry

Any advice in sowing or cultivation is well appreciated!

For the following plant in a sheltered location Aka greenhouse or direct sow in fall.

For cornus mas don't let it dry out. Direct sowed seeds shouldbe in moist areas with early morning sun and afternoon shade in summer.

Elaeagnus plant in sun, in fall, germination comes spring

Same with the mulberries.

i've got about a half mile of siberian pea hedgerow and i get a lot of vigorous natural germination off it on adjacent cultivated land. They get going in mid-spring where i'm at, i suspect we don't have enough moisture for germination later on. But the seeds would have been on the ground over winter since the pods burst last summer.

This summer i'm going to try to gather a bushel or two of the pods before they snap open...i'll let them snap open in the container and try to clean out the seed and i hope to broadcast a new hedgerow next spring. I'm not sure if it needs cold stratification, but that might be a good idea, thanks...will store them outside this winter. I suppose I could broadcast in the fall, but I would worry that a fast snow melt might transport the seed away from where i want it. Good Luck.

I have siberian pea and serviceberry. Living in NE Ontario I just cast the seed where I want new growth in the fall and it sprouts when it overwinters. I did collect seed 2 falls ago that overwintered in the car then another winter in the garage and sprouted readily when cast on the last of the snow this past spring. I have done the same with serviceberry, whole fruit, on the last property I owned. Putting the seeds in the freezer for a couple of months would do.

For honey locust (Gleditsia triacanthos) just scarify roughly (I use a file) soak overnight, then plant. I collected a bunch of goumi seed (Elaeagnus multiflora) in late winter and stuck some in a pot, while trying various stratification regimens with others. The ones in the pot all sprouted, while the stratified ones had mediocre germ rates.

Please share your results as I'm going to be growing many of the same species from seed this autumn.

Good luck!

Cool, Max...did you do much to prepare a seed bed to get the serviceberry to catch? I didn't quite understand, did you have luck spreading serviceberry in the fall? thanks..

With the serviceberry I forgot it in a shed where it overwintered once, found it sort of freeze dried at the end of the next summer, took up the sod in the fall, added 2 yr old cold compost screened through 1/4" mesh to just above the level of the sod, put the berries in the compost about 1/2" and lightly covered with straw mulch. The area was against a fence so it had about 4' of snow that winter and I had good sprouting the next spring, only about 2' of a 50' fence didn't have growth.

Bamboo is usually planted from an existing rhizome. You water them as needed the first year, mulch them heavily, and feed them some fertilizer and they will take off in about 3 years. Seed is usually few and far between as most species will flower in 30 or 100 year intervals. Seeds are usually grown out in pots and taken good care of for their first several years.

I started mulberry, serviceberry and wax myrtle in pots last fall. Unfortunately they did germinate, in January when it was 70 for a week.

It has been two weeks, the honey locust, sea buckthorn and black mulberry have germinated, only one seed of each so far (without any treatment - only soaking in water; hot water for the honey locust).

I will keep posted of the updates
I have several seeds in the fridge (just above freezing) in kitchen paper that has been humidified with tap water. If this does not work, then I will sown some more seeds during the winter!

Thanks for all your advices!

Paulo Bessa wrote:Hi, I just got seeds from several interesting permaculture species, and I now have the challenge to make them sprout.

Many of these seem to require cold stratisfication in order to sprout.
Which is something I have little experience.

Anyone has had sown before the following trees:

- Cornus mas/alba
- Eleagnus angustifolia, umbellata (silverberry)
- Amelanchier (serviceberry)
- Aronia (chokeberry)
- Morus alba/nigra (mulberry)
- Siberian pea
- Honey locust
- Wax myrtle
- Sea buckthorn
- Manchurian apple

And the following shrubs:
- Yampa
- Biscuit roots
- Crambe maritima
- Turkish rocket
- Discorea/ Yam
- Bamboo (phyllostachys)
- Good king henry

Any advice in sowing or cultivation is well appreciated!

Hy Paulo Bessa,
I read today your posts abouts seeds for perenial plants. I want to say that I am now interested too on mulberry growing from seeds. Keep me informed wen you have new informations about. Can I buy mulberry seeds here in Porto and try myself too?
Your yacon is growing very well in our garden.
Greetings to Iceland.
Benjamim Fontes
North Portugal, zone ? (What zone number, Paulo?)

Hi Benjamim, your zone is also 9. That means that the lowest temperature you can get every winter is between -1ºC and -7ºC.

Mulberries seeds: I never saw it on sale in Porto, I ordered them through ebay. Nurseries might however sell the tree. And it can also grow wild in Portugal. I can give you seeds next time I go there. The mulberry takes a LONG time to make fruits, 10 to 15 years at least!

The Yacon produces large tubers, that taste juicy when eaten raw. It's not starchy like the potato, but it is more productive and a perennial. Its similar to the Jerusalem artichokes ("tupinampos") but Yacon is from warmer climates.

benjamim fontes wrote:Hy Paulo Bessa,
I read today your posts abouts seeds for perenial plants. I want to say that I am now interested too on mulberry growing from seeds. Keep me informed wen you have new informations about. Can I buy mulberry seeds here in Porto and try myself too?
Your yacon is growing very well in our garden.
Greetings to Iceland.
Benjamim Fontes
North Portugal, zone ? (What zone number, Paulo?)

More seeds have germinated:

- Honey locust: germinated 1 week at room temperature, after hot water soaking for a couple of hours (only one seed so far)
- Sea buckthorn: germinated 2 weeks at room temperature (only one seed so far)
- Morus alba/nigra (mulberry): germinated 2 weeks at room temperature (no stratifiscation required); several seeds germinated
- Manchurian apple: germinated 2 weeks while in a wet paper towel, in the fridge (4ºC), a few seeds have germinated

The rest hasn't germinated yet. I have both seeds at room temperature and in the fridge (in wet paper towels).

I had the same issue with the seeds I bought that needed stratification. Though my seeds are not the same as yours. Not a single one of them grew. I am repurchasing a lot of them this fall and I will put them in the ground then. The whole refrigerator thing just did not work on them.

Hawthorn
Blackcap Raspberry
Bush Cherry
American Blackcurrant

(a few off the top of my head)

How long were your seeds on the refrigerator?
They must be all the time wet and just above freezing point.

Some of mine have germinated now, 4 weeks later, some while being on the fridge, while others being on pots at room temp.

Lori Evans wrote:I had the same issue with the seeds I bought that needed stratification. Though my seeds are not the same as yours. Not a single one of them grew. I am repurchasing a lot of them this fall and I will put them in the ground then. The whole refrigerator thing just did not work on them.

Hawthorn
Blackcap Raspberry
Bush Cherry
American Blackcurrant

(a few off the top of my head)

They varied from 6 weeks to 4 months depending on the seed. They were very specific with the stratification information sent with the seeds and I followed it to the "T". This year I am repurchasing the seed and I will put it in the ground in the fall for natural stratification. I couldn't do it this year as I purchased my seed in January. Thank goodness it's not too expensive!

Updates information in how I managed to germinate these perennial seeds:

I think this listing might be useful to some people. Germinated species are in bold. Failed germination (seed seems to often rot down) is listed in italic.

- Cornus mas/alba: no germination yet (waiting to natural winter stratification)
- Eleagnus angustifolia, umbellata (silverberry): no germination yet (waiting to natural winter stratification)
- Amelanchier (serviceberry): no germination yet (waiting to natural winter stratification)
- Aronia (chokeberry): no germination yet (waiting to natural winter stratification)
- Morus alba/nigra (mulberry): morus nigra germinated easily 2-6 weeks at room temperature; seeds germinate even better if seeds are in humid paper towel in fridge (took around 4-8 weeks). Seedlings grow much faster with diluted urine or liquid compost.
- Siberian pea: all germination attempts have failed so far; seed eventually rots down, even if I use sand and less humidity; it has been 2 months and many attempts, at different temperature and potting soils
- Honey locust: only one seed germinated at 2 weeks, at room temperature (sandy soil); other seeds probably dormant. These seeds were pre-soaked only in slightly warm water for a few hours (because otherwise they seem to be more prone to rot down). Seedling grows very fast with sunlight and warmth.
- Chilean mesquite: two seeds germinated at 6 weeks at room temperature in sandy soil. Seeds were pre-soaked for a few hours. Care was taken to avoid any excess humidity, because this is a species from dry conditions, like the honey locust. Place in full sun and warm.
- Wax myrtle: no germination yet (waiting to natural winter stratification); at room temperature no germination for 2 months.
- Sea buckthorn: germination is easy at room temperature, after 2-6 weeks; seeds also germinate in fridge, potting soil should include sand to avoid root rot
- Manchurian apple: germinates only in fridge but easily at 2-4 weeks, in a wet paper towel. Seedlings seem highly sensitive to humidity conditions and root disturbance.
- Enset: no germination yet. I am trying a sandy mix at 30ºC
- Dates: no germination yet. I am trying a sandy mix at 30ºC
- Pomegranate: seeds from store bought fruits readily germinate within 6 weeks at 25ºC. Seedlings grow nicely with full sun and warmth, and are drought resistant.
- Moringa: seeds germinate easily within 4 weeks at 25ºC in good potting mix. Its important to provide full sun, warmth and no excessive humidity. Small seedlings grow very fast to form a small tree, but dislike frequent waterings. Also avoid root disturbance. By some unknown reason, leaves often drop and get yellow or burnt, and plant can recover very fast too. Less watering is important.
- Avocado: seeds (from store bought fruit) germinates after 4 weeks if its a good potting soil, with plenty organic matter and some sand, and warm temperature. Trees are sensitive to excessive humidity, changes in light and temperature and root disturbance, otherwise they grow fast.

And the following shrubs:
- Yampa: no germination yet
- Biscuit roots: no germination yet. Some seeds seemed to have sprouted but then nothing happened later.
- Crambe maritima: erratic germination, but two seeds germinated at room temperature after 6 weeks, and only in potting soil that included sand. Seeds were burried to 1cm and were pre-soak overnight in cold water, before being sown. One seedling die because only the root managed to break the seed, its leaves rot down inside the seed capsule. The other seedling is growing well. Likes full sun.
- Turkish rocket: no germination yet.
- Discorea/ Yam: no germination yet. Many tubers eventually rot down. Best to have potting soil with sand to avoid this. Perhaps they don't enjoy being pre-soaked as I did. Unfortunately, one tuber sprout but I sliced it while checking for germination. Sad mistake. No othe tuber germinated so far and I have tried temperatures between 15 and 30ºC.
- Bamboo (phyllostachys): one seedling germinated at week 8 in fridge (wet paper towel). It was readily transplanted to a container containing a compost/soil/sandy mix. At transplant I place the seedling at surface, with taking care that the tiny root saw a bit of light and air. It grows very slowly initially but enjoys some humidity (not excessive) and warm temperature, and it is starting to grow a bit faster now. Likes full sun.
- Good king henry: some seeds germinated erraticly at week 6 at room temperature in potting mix with sand, but grow very slowly initially, just like other chenopodium species. At this stage, care must be taken with humidity to avoid root rot. Likes full sun. Avoid that seedlings get leggy.
- Asparagus: seeds germinated easily within 2-4 weeks, and even better if given cold treatment. Seedlings grow fast, dislike root disturbance and enjoy plenty of nitrogen fertility.
- Tiger nuts: tubers germinate easily if soak for two days in slighty warm water, and water is changed. Then pot them in sandy soil and they will soon germinate and grow fast. Temperture 25ºC.
- Goji berry: seeds from store bought fruit, readily germinate at 2 weeks at 25ºC and nice good soil. They dislike root disturbance and excessive moisture. Otherwise they grow really fast and enjoy liquid compost applications.
- Jícama: all germination attempts seem to fail and seeds rot down, different temperatures attempted and potting mixes. Perhaps no pre-soaking should be done.
- Pigeon peas: all germination attempts seem to fail and seeds rot down, different temperatures attempted and potting mixes. Perhaps no pre-soaking should be done.

Germination of seeds might also be better for a totally different kind of soil, might be different according to time of the year, and some bought seeds might be more fresh than others (if nothing works, buying from a different supplier might just be the solution)

never planted some myself but thanks to the windbreak of siberian pea shrubs we have, there are a few volunteers here and there in the yard

Devon Olsen wrote:never planted some myself but thanks to the windbreak of siberian pea shrubs we have, there are a few volunteers here and there in the yard:)

Do you eat them, the siberian peas?

i dont actually, dont know of any recipes for them but they are there for survival food for sure

anyone that has any recipes that they like though, im open for suggestions

it may or may not help you to know that we have sandy soils with about 12 inches of topsoil, average 14 inches of rain a year and get winters down to -30F and summers up to 98F

There are also other carragana species (siberian pea is only one of them).
Perhaps some might do better in continental climates while others in maritime climates. The siberian pea shrub seems to prefer continental climates like yours.

Devon Olsen wrote:i dont actually, dont know of any recipes for them but they are there for survival food for sure

anyone that has any recipes that they like though, im open for suggestions

it may or may not help you to know that we have sandy soils with about 12 inches of topsoil, average 14 inches of rain a year and get winters down to -30F and summers up to 98F

I grew Sea Buckthorn from seed, easy, but needs cold stratification (look up at agroforestry research center how long).
They sat in a pot for a very long time and were rather big on transplanting, I didn't fertilize or water them.
But if available at your place there seem to be improved varieties, I would go for these if I could.
I grew dioscorea oppisita from seed, i just transplanted them.

" - Eleagnus angustifolia, umbellata (silverberry): no germination yet (waiting to natural winter stratification) "

In the US this is a rampant invasive weed, but here in the Himalayas it seems to be native, and people often have just one, with no problem of rampant spread. We propagate it by cuttings, exactly like willows, and just as easy. Cut any size stick off it during the dormant season (winter or late spring, any time before the leaf buds swell), trim off small branches, and plant it in the ground about 1/3 below ground and 2/3 above. We used thick sticks about 1 to 2 inches (2 - 5 cm) dia., but I think much thinner would work fine. Water it in and then keep the ground moist regularly until it roots.

It produces seeds prolifically but I haven't seen seedlings. The fruits look like olives and are edible, sweet but unpleasant and astringent, the kind of thing kids eat just because you can.