Water usage and cheap tanks

So it seems that the 'average' American uses 3000 gallons of water per month.  Good grief.  That's a lotta watta.  I reckon that we can get it down to less than 1000 per person, per month.  No flush toilet, no tub baths, no dishwasher.  And the grey water could be used a second time.

So maybe you could get away with a 2000 gallon tank for two people instead of a - gulp - 6000 gallon one.  

And it looks like it's about $1/gallon of capacity for tanks (not including shipping).  This is for purpose made bulk water storage tanks.  I see a lot of folks using IBC totes.  I like that those make water catchment scalable pretty easily.  How does the price compare per gallon of capacity? And, perhaps more importantly, how much more of a hassle (over the 'appropriately' sized tank) is that modular design to implement?

Thanks heaps,

The main problem with IBC totes is that they let light in, and this leads to algae growth. If you want to devise potable water storage using these, they need to be covered or painted well to keep light out (this will prolong the life of the plastic as well, as it will degrade under UV).

If the water is just for gardens and toilet flushing, and you don't mind replacing the containers every ten years or so, then let the sun shine in.

A bigger problem with IBC's are the cost of the fittings to connect things up properly.
If you connect 4 IBC's you need;
- 5 /1 1/2 inch valves @ AU$30
- 4 /IBC to poly pipe special connectors AU$45
- 3/ 11/2 inch poly Tee's AU$35
- 1/ 11/2 inch poly elbow AU$ 32
In Australia that is about a total of AU$467 if you save more cash and get a bigger tank made for the purpose you will have
a better system.
I think you will need at least a 5000L tank.
But research water usage in Bulgaria you may be surprised what is used.
After all a daily shower, drinking water and a washing machine are very nice to have today.

From; Climate change post
We see Bulgaria will loose surface water in the next 80 years.
The water demands applied for irrigation in southern Bulgaria were higher than the irrigation demands in northern Bulgaria due to less precipitation and higher air temperatures.
Annual river runoff is expected to decrease up to 14% in 50 years and to be 20% less at the end of the century in respect of the current climate
However, with Bulgaria’s population projected to have declined even more significantly by the middle of the century, per capita water resources are expected to increase,
FROM; https://www.gwp.org/en/GWP-CEE/countries/bulgaria/#:~:text=Relatively%20constant%20is%20consumption%20of,l%2Fday%2Fper%20capita.

"Total water entered water supply system by public water supply systems operators in 2009 is estimated at 987 million m3, and by the irrigation systems in the amount of 962 million m3. Water supply losses during transport are 59.2%.
Relatively constant is consumption of drinking water by the households - on average 99 l/day/per capita. "
WHICH IS ABOUT 3000 L PER MONTH [ 750 GALS. ]

(Roof Area (ft2) X Precipitation Amount (in) X 0.623 = Amount Collected (gallons))

Monthly Usage = 2,000gallon
Monthly Production = 1,000sqft roof x 3.21 inch/month of rain x 0.623 = 1,000 * 2 = 2,000 gallons

(you get 3.5in to 4.5in rain every month of the year except for February, but if you start off the month with a full tank its okay.)
Do you have a backup in case of a drought or if the tank needs repair?
What happens when the temp goes down to -5F for a week every other year, will your PVC pipe break?


Will you also get a leaf filter, 1st flush, overflow surface cleaner, floating outlet pipe, pump, pressure tank.
https://www.rainharvest.com/rainflo-agb-above-ground-rainwater-collection-bundle-4-inch.asp

What are your views on ozone for microbes/cyst/virus/biofilm/etc control
https://www.rainharvest.com/jed-ozone-treatment-model-203-115v-a-c.asp

The cost  of storage and the space it takes is what sent me down the path of water conservation.
Despite the cost of connecting smaller tanks together, I think it can be good choice if the tanks themselves are free.

Building your own from scratch would be my second choice.
Builditsolar has water tank designs that use 2x4s, plywood and a liner.
They can be built to fit the space available.

For an outdoor tank, take a look at this https://www.instructables.com/How-to-Build-a-6000-gallon-Water-Tank/

It uses a liner, minimal materials and the power of a circle.

While our well supply is good, I try and keep it for household use. A big outside use in addition to garden is to provide a reservoir in case our property is threatened by forest fire (chances are that our hydro will be down).  So far I have scrounged about 20 55 gallon rain barrels, but I am on the lookout for one larger storage container for fire protection (moving the pump from barrel to barrel would be less than ideal). One of my neighbours found the cheapest solution was an above ground pool ($.10 a gallon).

David Reay wrote: One of my neighbors found the cheapest solution was an above ground pool ($.10 a gallon).

I've also read of people buying second-hand above ground pools and make a latexcrete roof over them to keep out leaves/bugs etc. I think they used a 1/2 PVC pipe frame with the latexcrete covered fabric over the frame. There was a hatch for cleaning.

Phil Stevens wrote:The main problem with IBC totes is that they let light in, and this leads to algae growth. If you want to devise potable water storage using these, they need to be covered or painted well to keep light out (this will prolong the life of the plastic as well, as it will degrade under UV).

If the water is just for gardens and toilet flushing, and you don't mind replacing the containers every ten years or so, then let the sun shine in.

Mainly for dishes and showers and basic household cleaning.  If we can't get potable water from the roof, that's okay, we can bring that in.  But I'd much rather also have potable/cooking water.  I did see that there are some covers for IBC totes to exclude UV and possibly provide some level of insulation.  

John C Daley wrote:A bigger problem with IBC's are the cost of the fittings to connect things up properly.
If you connect 4 IBC's you need;
- 5 /1 1/2 inch valves @ AU$30
- 4 /IBC to poly pipe special connectors AU$45
- 3/ 11/2 inch poly Tee's AU$35
- 1/ 11/2 inch poly elbow AU$ 32
In Australia that is about a total of AU$467 if you save more cash and get a bigger tank made for the purpose you will have
a better system.
I think you will need at least a 5000L tank.

I was thinking that the fittings would be a faff and additional expense.  

Showers, yes but not tub baths that take way more water.  This is for our farm in Massachusetts, but the info about Bulgaria is amazing and I'll file that away to use there.  Awesome!

S Bengi wrote:(Roof Area (ft2) X Precipitation Amount (in) X 0.623 = Amount Collected (gallons))

Monthly Usage = 2,000gallon
Monthly Production = 1,000sqft roof x 3.21 inch/month of rain x 0.623 = 1,000 * 2 = 2,000 gallons

(you get 3.5in to 4.5in rain every month of the year except for February, but if you start off the month with a full tank its okay.)
Do you have a backup in case of a drought or if the tank needs repair?
What happens when the temp goes down to -5F for a week every other year, will your PVC pipe break?


Will you also get a leaf filter, 1st flush, overflow surface cleaner, floating outlet pipe, pump, pressure tank.
https://www.rainharvest.com/rainflo-agb-above-ground-rainwater-collection-bundle-4-inch.asp

What are your views on ozone for microbes/cyst/virus/biofilm/etc control
https://www.rainharvest.com/jed-ozone-treatment-model-203-115v-a-c.asp

No back-up yet.  I do know I'll have to think about that.  Drought in July/August has been so common on our farm over the past decade.  PVC pipe may just need to be something that goes into my 'maintenance' budget just incase we get a crazy bad cold snap.  We did a few years back - killed most of the old nursery stock trees here (not ours - abandoned by a former tenant).  Thanks so much for the resource on ozone. I'm looking forward to reading it!

Nissa

David Reay wrote:While our well supply is good, I try and keep it for household use. A big outside use in addition to garden is to provide a reservoir in case our property is threatened by forest fire (chances are that our hydro will be down).  So far I have scrounged about 20 55 gallon rain barrels, but I am on the lookout for one larger storage container for fire protection (moving the pump from barrel to barrel would be less than ideal). One of my neighbours found the cheapest solution was an above ground pool ($.10 a gallon).

Interesting solution.  I'm worried about drawing fire from the town on that one regarding zoning/permitting/taxes and also insurance.  

I'm just considering this same issue for my village house in north-east Bulgaria. The region is the driest part of the country anyway, only 20" of rain a year and likely to decrease due to the changing climate. What was I thinking when I bought a house in the village that holds the record for the driest year ever?!
Shallow well water in the area has completely dried up, I suspect due to the big farms being able to have deeper wells and drain the aquifer for irrigation. No one collects rainwater, because there's always been enough, but that will change. Thankfully there haven't been the huge issues with municipal water supplies parts of the south had last year, but aging infrastructure makes it a strong possibility.
It seems to me that once the roof is sound (it's leaky at present!) getting rainwater collection in place is a must! It seems that in Bulgaria small rainwater tanks or IBC totes are relatively cheap, but the price per litre increases as the tanks get bigger. I suppose because they need to be thicker and better engineered. For water quality, I'd love to install one big tank. But finances may dictate a series of smaller ones, at least initially.

Nissa, what does this mean?
"fittings would be a faff and additional expense....."
Do you really have to worry about installing a fire water supply?
Would your taxes increase because of it?

That $1 per gallon gets significantly less as you buy larger tanks.  We just bought quantity 6 black poly, 2500 gallon tanks for $1000 each, making it about $0.40 per gallon.  I learned through my research that poly tanks are manufactured throughout the US so finding one that is made closer to you will save a lot on shipping.  Ours were made about 300 miles from here, shipping wasn't cheap but it was more reasonable than if they had come from further away.

John C Daley wrote:Nissa, what does this mean?
"fittings would be a faff and additional expense....."
Do you really have to worry about installing a fire water supply?
Would your taxes increase because of it?

Firstly, this isn't for fire safety.  It's for household water supply.  Fiddling with a lot of fittings in order to connect several IBC tanks would be a pain.  Thankfully that only has to be done once, or whenever a new tank was added.  This shouldn't impact taxes unless we go with using a pool for water storage.  That COULD impact both our taxes and property insurance.

For my IBCs I just use a cam-lock fitting and a garden hose adapter. Amazon actually has one premade for $13.

https://www.amazon.com/Gallon-Drain-Adapter-Camlock-Garden/dp/B09FSG7PVY/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2LOTAKYK1TJLV&keywords=cam+lock+fitting+ibc&qid=1675466606&sprefix=cam+lock+fitting+ibc%2Caps%2C310&sr=8-3

I just have one of these that I move from tank to tank as they go dry.

Anyways, here I can get dirty, food grade IBCs for $50, so they are 19 cents a gallon but you have to clean em out.  I just have 4 for plant watering on one side of the house (they fill from the top of my woodshed) and another I use to flush toilets and wash my ass when the powers out. That one I will refill from my well if I have to, because it only rains for 3 months out of the year here.

I have a 2500 gallon tank that I use for my veggie garden. Way more convenient but it was $1100 used.

I am going to build a 10,000 gallon cistern/pond thing this year I hope. My idea is a 4 foot hole with a 2.5 foot block wall on top, filled with a pond liner and covered with a roof mostly made from mill off-cuts (cause those are free). Promises, promises...

This shouldn't impact taxes unless we go with using a pool for water storage.  That COULD impact both our taxes and property insurance.

I am stunned to read this comment.
What size of change in tax would you believe would happen if you created an improvement in the water supplY?
How would anybody know what you had done?
Is any potential change in tax be worth while preventing the improvement.
I have 'herd' of people not painting their house for for of a tax increase?
Is that possible?

John, I gather the property tax system in the US is very different to the Australian system. Far higher land taxes, and any improvement to the property, even minor things, can mean paying more. It's been a while since I lived in Australia and things may have changed, but I am pretty sure the homes I owned there were taxed on the unimproved property value.

OK, some its unimproved and some are improved, but a coat of paint would not send you broke!

John C Daley wrote:

This shouldn't impact taxes unless we go with using a pool for water storage.  That COULD impact both our taxes and property insurance.

I am stunned to read this comment.
What size of change in tax would you believe would happen if you created an improvement in the water supplY?
How would anybody know what you had done?
Is any potential change in tax be worth while preventing the improvement.
I have 'herd' of people not painting their house for for of a tax increase?
Is that possible?

So painting and maintenance definitely increases the assessed value.  If I were to put a swimming pool on the property - even if it were used for household water storage - the town could assess a higher value.  My insurance company would see it as a liability and charge more.  How would they know?  Well... the town would know because we have a busy-body neighbour who flies over our house with his friends in motorised gliders.  He's also a farmer and was after this property when we bought it.  He used to harass our tenant's cattle and cause them to break through the fence every Saturday.  All summer long.  He's a nasty piece of business.  No, the police didn't do anything.  We called.  Every week.  Took photos.  

It's a risk.  One I might be willing to take.  I'm not certain yet.  I mean, if HE can get away with harassing animals in the face of evidence...

Ok, that is a different issue.
Back to house and paint.
If you have a nice looking place and dont do any maintenance its value may drop and the house collapse in the extreme.
Do you rates drop?
If you do maintain the same house, its only maintenance and may not actually rise in value.

I think I have it laid out clearly.