Fire Safety Awareness for Permies

Good Afternoon Permies!

It is I, your resident Occupational Health and Safety professional, and I want to bring you the word. October is Fire Safety Month!

I'm here to hit you with the obligated "Have you checked your smoke detectors?"

Do you even have smoke detectors? (There is a BB for installing them)

Do you have a carbon monoxide detector? (There is also a BB for installing them)

Do you have a fire extinguisher? (There is also another BB for installing them!)

This is your reminder to check your existing equipment for functionality. Clean off dust an debris, utilize the test buttons of your alarms! If you have a dry chem extinguisher please make sure that the chem is loose and not wadded into a ball. You should be able to tip your extinguisher around to move it. Might have to give it a good shake!

How about your out buildings? Is there a risk of a fire there? Do you have any alarms installed to alert you?

This is the push for everyone that has been meaning to do some of these tasks but just haven't gotten around to it. I hope that you never need these things, but the off chance can literally save your life or allow you the chance to minimize damage.

Please add to the discussion, you can never be too safe!

Something I plan on doing this year is is install a ten year life smoke detector into my chicken coop up high. I don't want to be fussing with a battery but I'll have to be diligent about checking for functionality. I am expecting the draft up high to help keep the dust off but I'll make sure its accessible. The fire department for my town is roughly 500 feet away and my neighbors volunteer with them. I figure if an alarm is buzzing, myself or someone else will check it out!

Fire safety has long been important to me. I have seen how fast a fire can spread.   We have an excellent volunteer fire department. I know it will take only minutes for them to respond. A good deal of damage can be done in minutes. I haven’t counted lately,  but I keep about 14 fire extinguishers handy….in my barn, hay shed, attached to mower and tractor, and in the house.  I also keep several 5 gallon buckets of water at strategic locations.if nothing else, the dogs appreciate them.

I am very aware of fire safety and take lots of precautions.

In the past, we had lots of fire extinguishers.

Our strategy is to make our homestead as fireproof as possible.

We keep all vegetation away from the house, in fact, we have a pea gravel pad that surrounds the house.

The house has cement siding.

We are also aware of the need to be cautious of the smell of smoke and seeing smoke in the sky.

Thank you for the reminder that October is Fire Safety Month.

Thank you for the reminder of those easy PEP Badge Bits that a lot of folks can do, especially this month.

Add in ash management for a wood stove or RMH. Metal bucket, placed outdoors on a non-combustible surface for days until you know for damn certain there are no live embers in there.

It never hurts to practice extinguishing fires with various means. Knowing what you're dealing with helps you understand how to attack it. And you may be the first responder...what you do in those crucial 3-5 minutes will write the rest of the story.

We have a good volunteer fire brigade in our village and the station is less than 2 km away. But they didn't show up to the neighbour's house back in June when it was burning, because they couldn't get a crew to drive the truck that morning. If I hadn't been there, the 20 minutes it took for a truck to arrive from the city would have been more than sufficient to involve the whole structure and endanger my house.

Hi Phil,

Great point. The first time I used a fire extinguisher in actual practice,I followed my training exactly.   It was an outside fire with lots or cardboard and paper that wAs spreading. The force of the extinguisher sent the burning materials airborne.   I sent an hour putting out flames around the yard.
The training never considered more lightweight materials.

I will be popping in different pieces of advice as they come to me on here about fire safety.

If you have a local fire department or ambulance provider, access can pose a challenge when emergencies arise. As a volunteer firefighter in a rural district in the past, there has been a few instances where responses were hindered due to not being able to physically take our vehicles where they needed to go. The two biggest issues tended to be steepness of driveways in the winter when there was ice and overgrowth preventing access. I've never had a fence gate stop my tanker but I have had trees that were bigger and badder than me.

Something also to note, is if you have water sources available on your property that could be used to fire suppression, try to make them accessibly in the direction of where a truck could approach in order to draft water. I have been in trucks that buried their tires in mud but we got water flowing. Bonus points if you install a dry hydrant!

What is a dry hydrant?

John F Dean wrote:What is a dry hydrant?

Great question,

A dry hydrant is an unpressurized hookup point for firetrucks to draft water from a body of water. They compromise of dug in PVC pipes into a body of water that is below the water level usually with an attached skimmer. There is an exposed attachment point for a firetruck to then utilize the pump on the truck to draft water through the pipe and then into the truck. Generally a firetruck will be stationed at the dry hydrant and their job is to suck in water. They will refill other trucks who then tanker shuttle it to the scene that is needed.

The departments that I have been a part of that are not serviced with true fire hydrants have installed them throughout the district working with local government and land owners. They are strategically spread out so if a fire happens near one segment of farms, they know to tone out someone to that site to setup water drafting operations. We had good relations with farmers with large ponds and they allowed us to install them. Grants paid for the dry hydrants and installation.

A less common fire suppression tool in the States but one that can be effective for small fires or self protection is the good ole fashion Wool Blanket

Wool is a natural fiber that is naturally flame resistant. This is thanks to a high nitrogen and water content to the fiber. It has an ignition point of 570-600°C, 1058-1112°F, 843.15-873.15K. Wool does not melt, stick, or ooze unlike petroleum based fibers which means less chance of burns for individuals. It is naturally self extinguishing as well! You do not need to use a chemically treated wool blanket specifically for the task of fire suppression but some places do sell treated wool fire blankets so be aware.

They do sell fiberglass fire blankets that do their job perfectly well, but wool is my personal favorite. It is sustainable, procurable, and multipurpose. Have a blanket wrapped up in your vehicle somewhere, have one in your common spaces, and easily enough have one in your bedroom!

I want to emphasis that this is for small fires. Anything outside of an incipient stage fire, the blanket would be overwhelmed by the generated heat and you would be overwhelmed by the fumes. Much of what we do for personal fire prevention gives us tools up to that Incipient stage but not much after. This is why we try to be proactive instead of reactive!

I think worth noting, most things sold these days as "wool" are something like 15-25% synthetic fibers because reasons. Last time i looked at REI, that was all they carried.  I've had expensive wool garments damaged/ruined because the synthetic part melted when exposed to heat/flame, but not where they were protecting me from harm. Any idea if there have been tests on how wool blends perform for fire threats?

Now I'm sure to seek out 100% wool. If it is in frequent direct contact with skin, Merino will make one much happier...

I think 100% wool is a must. Putting synthetic fibres, which are basically long-chain hydrocarbons with a ridiculously high surface area to volume ratio, in contact with a fire is like pouring lighter fluid on it to put it out. It could work, if you have enough lighter fluid to displace all the air in the vicinity....

When you see wool blend, it tends to indicate that there is a synthetic fiber involved.

Wool used to be the go-to fiber for the fire service, but that changed over towards Nomex (sometimes Kevlar or a blend of both) for its resistance to heat. The issue that is coming out about Nomex gear is that there tends to be a presence of PFAS wherever you find Nomex. The ongoing discussion over this has seen some producers going back to merino wool.

In an industrial setting where I have electricians and mechanics working with 480v and we have a risk of arc flash if things went wrong with electrical panels. steam powered machinery, and other dangers. We provide as a company flame resistant (FR) outerwear/pants which tends to be mostly cotton fiber that is treated with chemicals.

Full disclosure, I do not have a deep knowledge of livestock fire planning but I have responded to several barn fires in my time.

If you have livestock, you need to have a plan!

What if you lost their housing structure? Do you have the ability to temporarily house them? Do you know someone and have the ability to take your animals to them? Could you identify your animals if they got loose? How difficult is it to operate your gates in a panic?

Something to think about. Anyone with experience handling an emergency situation with livestock?

Timothy Norton wrote:When you see wool blend, it tends to indicate that there is a synthetic fiber involved.

Wool used to be the go-to fiber for the fire service, but that changed over towards Nomex (sometimes Kevlar or a blend of both) for its resistance to heat. The issue that is coming out about Nomex gear is that there tends to be a presence of PFAS wherever you find Nomex. The ongoing discussion over this has seen some producers going back to merino wool.

In this article, a firefighter posts about how he sent his Nomex station wear to a lab for testing and found it had a few other carcinogens in addition to PFAS, as well as literature from Dupont warning as much, and pictures of labels from the gear warning about how it will be 'stressed' and 'break down' (losing effectiveness if no giving off the carcinogens) after a few days' exposure to fluorescent or UV light...

AND, if you own a shop or garage and keep volatile chemicals in it, it may be a good idea to inform your local fire crews about their existence and location.

For example, I have gallons of lacquer thinner, denatured alcohol, paint thinner, spray cans, stains and so on. All are kept in a back room.


Many may have gas for the mower stashed in the garage. THEN there is the extra propane cans that SHOULD be stored outside. However, that may not be practical, for those who want to keep what they ownsafe from thieves.

SIDE NOTE:  For those who'll go there, not everyone can afford a cabinet designed to store such things, and even those need to be vented.

For solutions, one may need an outhouse like shed removed from the house. Then there are apartments. . . .

Another fire safety related thread - Oily Rag Safety

Where we live, in addition to all the wonderful ideas shared here already, we need to consider wildfire risks. Part of each summer is spent "fire-wising," which includes thinning stands of trees, removing lower branches, taking down dead trees (except those that appear to be home to some critters), and clearing wood debris from the ground. We get some pretty scary fires here.

What is this ? please.

. Last time i looked at REI

John C Daley wrote:What is this ? please.

. Last time i looked at REI

It is a "cooperative " business in north America that specialises in gear for outdoor activities, with stores in many major cities. It is mostly upscale 'sports' oriented stuff for camping/biking/hiking etc. Not much in the way of durable gear suitable for 'work'.

We have been fortunate so far this spring to have plenty of rain, but I have heard murmurs of a hot summer so I have began cleanup on my property.

The first course of action has been to gather up all the dropped deadwood from the winter season, the majority of it getting burned in a controlled fireplace. I've been a bit lackadaisical keeping extinguishing equipment nearby so I now stage a bucket of water next to my fires.  Other material not destined to be burned is chipped or incorporated into projects.

Another action I am conducting is to increase the amount and diversity of greenery on my land. I have began planting a variety of pollinator friendly plants that tend to stay green until the winter season. Wildfires are not a big thing in my area but brushfires are not to be trifled with.

October is here again. I hope everyone has been safe and continues to be safe!

Battery powered equipment is convenient, widely available, and seen as a comparable alternative to other powerplant options that exist. Batteries, however, are not without their own risks. Damaged or improperly charged batteries can become a source of disaster. Lithium-ion batteries have been a hot topic in the news due to runaway thermal meltdowns resulting in fires. Lithium fires can reach over 1000 degrees F (200 C)  and are incredibly difficult to put out. The batteries can reach a point of thermal runaway which is a dangerous self-sustaining cycle that keeps releasing heat and could potentially cause the battery to explode. They can keep burning through water applications, foam applications, and improper smothering. This is due to the fact that the components of a lithium-ion battery can provide both its fuel and oxidizer at the same time in the event of a fire. Firefighters and manufacturers are working on products specifically for dealing with thermal runaway events with a mixture of results.



The previous video has a as-good-as-it-can-be ending where the camera alerted the owner to the rising room temperature and they evacuated the animals safely.

So what can be done?

A few things in fact!

1. Charge your batteries with the appropriate equipment in a well ventilated space. Once a battery is charged, take it off the charger. Do not leave it on the charger!
2. Ideally store your batteries away from your living spaces in a space that does not get hot.
3. Purchase good quality batteries and don't abuse them. Avoid dropping them as it can damage the batteries.
4. If you have the capital, you can invest in purchasing a fire blanket SPECIFICALLY for lithium-ion fires. These are currently rather expensive but the price is gradually coming down.

If you have the money to put into it, there are products out there that are being sold as charging cabinets that are designed to help mitigate issues relating to lithium battery fires. The technology is constantly changing both for the batteries and the products sold around battery safety.

Do you do anything special when it comes to batteries?

I live in an area were minor earthquakes  are common and more significant ones are not unheard of.  We are also about a mile from a railroad track. In the winter, when the ground is frozen, I can stand outside and feel the vibration from the trains. On several occasions I have had to tighten the connection to the kitchen range.  I keep gas detectors near our kitchen range and furnace.

John Dean, that is amazing!
I have a train 8km west of me through a forest. If there is a westerly breeze at night I occaisionally
hear the squeal of the wheels on the track as it turns a bend.

Timothy Norton wrote:October is here again. I hope everyone has been safe and continues to be safe!

Battery powered equipment is convenient, widely available, and seen as a comparable alternative to other powerplant options that exist. Batteries, however, are not without their own risks. Damaged or improperly charged batteries can become a source of disaster. Lithium-ion batteries have been a hot topic in the news due to runaway thermal meltdowns resulting in fires. Lithium fires can reach over 1000 degrees F (200 C)  and are incredibly difficult to put out. The batteries can reach a point of thermal runaway which is a dangerous self-sustaining cycle that keeps releasing heat and could potentially cause the battery to explode. They can keep burning through water applications, foam applications, and improper smothering. This is due to the fact that the components of a lithium-ion battery can provide both its fuel and oxidizer at the same time in the event of a fire. Firefighters and manufacturers are working on products specifically for dealing with thermal runaway events with a mixture of results.

The previous video has a as-good-as-it-can-be ending where the camera alerted the owner to the rising room temperature and they evacuated the animals safely.

So what can be done?

A few things in fact!

1. Charge your batteries with the appropriate equipment in a well ventilated space. Once a battery is charged, take it off the charger. Do not leave it on the charger!
2. Ideally store your batteries away from your living spaces in a space that does not get hot.
3. Purchase good quality batteries and don't abuse them. Avoid dropping them as it can damage the batteries.
4. If you have the capital, you can invest in purchasing a fire blanket SPECIFICALLY for lithium-ion fires. These are currently rather expensive but the price is gradually coming down.

If you have the money to put into it, there are products out there that are being sold as charging cabinets that are designed to help mitigate issues relating to lithium battery fires. The technology is constantly changing both for the batteries and the products sold around battery safety.

Do you do anything special when it comes to batteries?

It is noteworthy that news coverage of Lithium derived energy storage rarely mentions the nuance of specific battery chemistry. Lithium chemistries in general are hazardous for the sheer amount of energy they are able to store in a small package.

LithiumIronPhosphate in particular gained early popularity in motorsports applications due to it being much less prone to thermal runaway than the other Lithium chemistries. The EV industry has been using primarily this and another, less expensive chemistry. I haven't come across a body of statistics on the matter, but anecdotally almost every story of cars or E-bikes burning up flamboyantly has involved another form of Li-ion. Laptops and phones also use non-LFP batteries.

There have been a small number of large fires/explosions associated with LFP batteries, but as far as I'm aware they all involve uncertain elements of associated engineering that would not be present in normal LFP applications...

This is a timely topic, even though October is still a way out.
Currently here in Washington there is a state wide burn ban through Sept 30.
(Darn - I want to make Sepp Holzer's 'bone sauce to keep the deer out of my trees, but it will have to wait!)

In a class with Joel Salatin, he told us that the number 1 cause of barn fires was electricity within the structure (faulty wires or heating devices plugged in), so he is a big advocate of off grid barns and other outbuildings, relying on day time sun and night time headlamps as needed instead of being attached to the grid.
Something to consider in planning the farm buildings...

Kara Ann wrote:This is a timely topic, even though October is still a way out.
Currently here in Washington there is a state wide burn ban through Sept 30.
(Darn - I want to make Sepp Holzer's 'bone sauce to keep the deer out of my trees, but it will have to wait!)

In a class with Joel Salatin, he told us that the number 1 cause of barn fires was electricity within the structure (faulty wires or heating devices plugged in), so he is a big advocate of off grid barns and other outbuildings, relying on day time sun and night time headlamps as needed instead of being attached to the grid.
Something to consider in planning the farm buildings...

I can very much believe that. The old farm buildings here used to have power, and it was all just standard household wire stapled wherever.. easy to see how it could be damaged.

If I ever need power somewhere that I don't want to put it in a wall, I use armored cable or conduit.. the safety factor is worth it to me, and the cost encourages me to keep enjoying my headlamps..

i pickup up about a half dozen free extuingishers after their strict use by finished up. oftentimes they are listed for free and great to have around the place, and i think would get a few more years out of them?