I know next to nothing about making yarn from scratch. Is there an easy way to tell if a plant would be good for the purpose? I'm thinking mainly about fluffy seeds because they look like wool and are just begging to be used. I know stem fibers can be used too, but there's a process to get at the fiber and I'm looking for a quick, spend an afternoon playing around kinda project. With the fluffy stuff can you say, for instance, "these fibers are x long and therefore no good, but these other fibers are y long and would probably work fine?" Is there a test of strength or flexibility that would tell you something about its suitability? Other criteria I don't know about? Or do I just have to try it and see?
Oh, and please excuse tardy responses from me. I will check back, but I only have access to internet once a week or so these days and lots to do while I'm online. tks
What works for making yarn with plants? It's possible to make yarn from many different plants.
For instant yarn, cordage, like string or twine, would probably be easier. It's the right time of year for nettle harvesting, so here's a couple of quick videos on different ways you can harvest and transform them. The first starts with fresh nettles, the second uses nettles that have been standing overwinter and are partly retted.
Another type of bast fibre that grows well where you live is flax.
Cotton is also fairly easy to work with although it does have its challenges.
You can buy both cotton and flax in a commercially prepared form... but I'm guessing from your question, you're looking for something a little more wild.
these fibers are x long and therefore no good, but these other fibers are y long and would probably work fine?
With just about everything in life, the answer is 'it depends'... however since you're starting out, I'll put some loose guidelines on what to look for. These are NOT hard and fast rules of what works and what does not. What does not work for some will work well for others... blablabla. The point is, please don't believe anyone who says this is the one proper way to do something with yarn.
It would probably be easiest to learn to spin fibre that is over an inch and a half in staple length. I find people seem to learn easier with stronger fibres, however, if you put the effort in, you can learn to make yarn from just about anything (dryer lint to sticks). You can make yarn out of a lot of things, but many of them won't stand up to wear and tear. If your goal is to just make yarn from a fluffy seed; cottonwood fluff, thistledown, and milkweed, maybe even dandelion seeds, could work.
Is there a test of strength or flexibility that would tell you something about its suitability? Other criteria I don't know about?
Yes.
I can go into it, but I don't really want to yet. You're starting from brand new so, with luck, you haven't been indoctrinated into the 'proper' way to make yarn. A lot of the things I was taught when learning to spin, turned out to not be true most of the time. I was told it's impossible to make yarn from... such and such... only to discover when I actually tried it, it wasn't that difficult after all.
The general rule is that seed fluff is too difficult to work with because it's not strong enough and other long lists of reasons. Yet, most of our natural clothing is made with cotton seed fluff. People around the world used different seed fluffs to make their clothes (although, not as common as bast fibres - fibres extracted from leaf and stem like linen and nettles). Of course, I was told no end of times how difficult flax (which becomes linen) was to spin, so I spent 10 years not spinning it. It's now my most favourite thing to make yarn from as it's no more difficult to prepare than wool - just different.
Or do I just have to try it and see?
This is really the best thing you could ever do!
Try as many things as you can. If you have questions, would like help with technique, then pop back here and we'll see what we can do to help.
Thank you, R. Ransom! You gave me lots of information I didn't even know I needed. Excellent post, as always! I've skimmed the material on some of the links you provided (all helpful) and will go through more carefully when time allows.
I'm starting to think I won't have the time to get to it this year, but I wanted to play around with spreading dogbane, which grows everywhere on my property. From the very little bit of reading I've done, dogbane/Indian hemp makes excellent thread from its bast fibers, spreading dogbane inferior. Now, inferior may mean perfectly good, just not AS good; and inferior may even have its own charm, so I'll try it out and see. It also has large seed pods full of fluff, but those fibers are an inch long AT BEST and seem brittle, although I've nothing to compare it to. Also full of tiny seeds. I'll try it out anyway cause I have so much and want it to be useful.
Can you mix seed fluff with bast fiber? If so, is that more tricky than just using one or the other?
Like I said, I probably won't get to it this year with the way things are going, but when I do I'll update.
Can you mix seed fluff with bast fiber? If so, is that more tricky than just using one or the other?
You can mix them. I'm not sure I would suggest it for a beginner project.
One thing that makes some fibers easier to spin than others is when the individual fibers are about the same length. So spinning a bunch of fibres that are roughly an inch long, works well, but mixing them with fibers that are twice that length often leads to bumpy yarn that isn't so strong. Of course, sometimes that's what you want, so for certain kinds of yarn, we mix fibres of different lengths. But I think for learning, I like to keep all the fibers roughly the same length.
Jan White wrote:I know next to nothing about making yarn from scratch. Is there an easy way to tell if a plant would be good for the purpose? I'm thinking mainly about fluffy seeds because they look like wool and are just begging to be used. I know stem fibers can be used too, but there's a process to get at the fiber and I'm looking for a quick, spend an afternoon playing around kinda project. With the fluffy stuff can you say, for instance, "these fibers are x long and therefore no good, but these other fibers are y long and would probably work fine?" Is there a test of strength or flexibility that would tell you something about its suitability? Other criteria I don't know about? Or do I just have to try it and see?
Oh, and please excuse tardy responses from me. I will check back, but I only have access to internet once a week or so these days and lots to do while I'm online. tks
If you really want to "test the primitive waters" I would suggest harvesting a basket full of milkweed seed pods while they are still green. One at a time split them open and begin rolling the white filament between your thumb and index finger discarding the seed. Keep adding to the "thread" to increase the length. Milkweed sap is very much like glue that will help stick the white filaments together. One pod will make a thread of extreme length. With practice it is possible to produce a fairly heavy thread. Milkweed "twine" is extremely strong. Native Americans used this thread for sewing hides to make clothing and footwear. The heavier thread was also used to bind flint knife blades to handles and flint points to arrows etc.
Dave Bennett wrote:If you really want to "test the primitive waters" I would suggest harvesting a basket full of milkweed seed pods while they are still green. One at a time split them open and begin rolling the white filament between your thumb and index finger discarding the seed.
I've never seen milkweed growing here, but I did try this with the spreading dogbane that grows everywhere, thinking it might give me some idea of the fiber's suitability for spinning. It has the same latexy sap as milkweed, but shorter fluff in smaller seedpods. It didn't work I think the fibers are either too short, too brittle, or a combination of the two. Milkweed grows near my in-laws' place, so maybe I'll try to get some next year. Thanks for the idea.
Has anyone tried sunflower stem? Supposedly there was a native tribe that used sunflower for almost everything, I'm interested in trying it but figured I'd ask if others have tried it first
Anthony Dougherty wrote:Has anyone tried sunflower stem? Supposedly there was a native tribe that used sunflower for almost everything, I'm interested in trying it but figured I'd ask if others have tried it first
I've read that they make an amazing texture. My sunflowers are 12 feet tall and have thick stems. I've tried retting the stem, but because the stem is so thick, it took longer than I thought and degraded the fibre. Maybe pealing the 'bark' and then retting or boiling with some soda ash might do the trick. It's supposedly very strong.
Anthony Dougherty wrote:Has anyone tried sunflower stem? Supposedly there was a native tribe that used sunflower for almost everything, I'm interested in trying it but figured I'd ask if others have tried it first
I've read that they make an amazing texture. My sunflowers are 12 feet tall and have thick stems. I've tried retting the stem, but because the stem is so thick, it took longer than I thought and degraded the fibre. Maybe pealing the 'bark' and then retting or boiling with some soda ash might do the trick. It's supposedly very strong.
Did you soak it? I know flax has to be soaked to begin biological breakdown
I know flax has to be soaked to begin biological breakdown
Um... soaking is one way to do it. It's not the only way. Here's a bit about retting and flax.
Inside the flax straw are golden fibres. These are the phylum, or circulatory system of the plant (some plants you use a structural element for fibre, like in the case of sisal or jute). The individual fibres are affixed to the woody pith and the hard outer shell of the flax straw with several types of glue, the most notable is pectin. Yep, that's the stuff in Jam.
We can remove the fibres through purely mechanical means. This is most often in modern-day manufacturing (especially hemp). Some methods also use chemicals to dissolve the glues and make separating the fibres easier.
But the simplest and most natural way of removing the glues is retting. Retting is basically a kind of controlled rot. We create an environment where bacteria, fungi, and other invisible beasties eat the glues that hold the fibre in place.
Water retting - involves submerging the straw in water and inviting anaerobic (dislikes air) bacteria to do the job. This is quite damaging to waterways and is banned in many places. If you water ret, please water down the wastewater (1 part wastewater to 10 parts fresh water) to avoid killing plants, fish, or harming humans.
Dew retting - is a much easier way to ret. This involves laying the straw on the grass so that the morning dew moistens the straw and invites aerobic (air loving) invisible beasties to come and eat the glues.
(there's a really great book about flax coming out soon that might interest you.)
Soaking is one way, but there are yet others.
For nettles, some people strip the bark (with the fibres) while the plant is green, then process just the bark. It's easier, space saving, and faster.
I think sunflowers would be the same way. The ones I grew this year have a stem that is 1-6 inches across, so it's difficult to ret the stems evenly. They are also over 12 feet tall, so I don't know where I could ret more than a handful of stems. Smaller plants would be easier to water ret.
I've tried soaking and dew retting sunflowers, but so far no luck. The fibres are there, but they break easily, not like how others describe it. It could be the time of year, the conditions I'm retting, or more likely, the kind of sunflower I'm working with is too large.
Of course, what works in one location, works differently in another. The best way to find out what works for you is to experiment.
Anthony Dougherty wrote:Has anyone tried sunflower stem? Supposedly there was a native tribe that used sunflower for almost everything, I'm interested in trying it but figured I'd ask if others have tried it first
Those were water retted in streams, The fibers are similar to flax and hemp.
Sunflower stalks are strong enough to be used for making flutes when properly dried whole.
Um... soaking is one way to do it. It's not the only way. Here's a bit about retting and flax.
Inside the flax straw are golden fibres. These are the phylum, or circulatory system of the plant (some plants you use a structural element for fibre, like in the case of sisal or jute). The individual fibres are affixed to the woody pith and the hard outer shell of the flax straw with several types of glue, the most notable is pectin. Yep, that's the stuff in Jam.
We can remove the fibres through purely mechanical means. This is most often in modern-day manufacturing (especially hemp). Some methods also use chemicals to dissolve the glues and make separating the fibres easier.
But the simplest and most natural way of removing the glues is retting. Retting is basically a kind of controlled rot. We create an environment where bacteria, fungi, and other invisible beasties eat the glues that hold the fibre in place.
Water retting - involves submerging the straw in water and inviting anaerobic (dislikes air) bacteria to do the job. This is quite damaging to waterways and is banned in many places. If you water ret, please water down the wastewater (1 part wastewater to 10 parts fresh water) to avoid killing plants, fish, or harming humans.
Dew retting - is a much easier way to ret. This involves laying the straw on the grass so that the morning dew moistens the straw and invites aerobic (air loving) invisible beasties to come and eat the glues.
(there's a really great book about flax coming out soon that might interest you.)
Soaking is one way, but there are yet others.
For nettles, some people strip the bark (with the fibres) while the plant is green, then process just the bark. It's easier, space saving, and faster.
I think sunflowers would be the same way. The ones I grew this year have a stem that is 1-6 inches across, so it's difficult to ret the stems evenly. They are also over 12 feet tall, so I don't know where I could ret more than a handful of stems. Smaller plants would be easier to water ret.
I've tried soaking and dew retting sunflowers, but so far no luck. The fibres are there, but they break easily, not like how others describe it. It could be the time of year, the conditions I'm retting, or more likely, the kind of sunflower I'm working with is too large.
Of course, what works in one location, works differently in another. The best way to find out what works for you is to experiment.
Ok well please keep me updated! This is something I'm very interested in!
Anthony Dougherty wrote:Has anyone tried sunflower stem? Supposedly there was a native tribe that used sunflower for almost everything, I'm interested in trying it but figured I'd ask if others have tried it first
What an interesting idea! I don’t have sunflowers but my Jerusalem artichokes are over 10’ tall and the stems need trimming down after flowering. I will try twining fibers from it and maybe retting some to see what happens. They are the same genus as the sunflowers.
Out here in southwest Yucca fiber is traditionally used to make cordage.Also it has been used to make shoes.I know in montana you could probley use lichen to make sometype of yarn/cordage.
Trish Robertson wrote:Do you think it possible to make a workable yarn from lichen?
Spanish moss was "retted" and spun into yarn and fabric in the southern US.
It would probably depend on the type of moss/lichen your looking at. Best way to find out is to grab some and try it!
I've learned to make yarn from yucca these past few years. So far I've found no other information online on making yucca yarn besides a skirt from it. Almost seems like its impossible.
I have made a small amount of it. It's soft, fuzzy and white. Good thing is that you can harvest the fiber all year round. And achieve different levels of fineness for what you want to make. Which is very nice. Downside is that It's very laborious and time consuming. Right now I have some retting to get rid of the rest of the stiffness from the first batch I made. That's almost completely soft. If I could find a less laborious easier way to do this would make a very good staple yarn.
I find that most plant fibre spins better with a small amount of dampness. Alex said:-Right now I have some retting to get rid of the rest of the stiffness from the first batch I made
- maybe try the method of removing pectin etc from handspun cotton - 2 tblsp washing soda/1 tblsp laundry detergent(no enzymes, bleach or optical whitener/ generous volume of water/heat to simmer, add spun fibre skein /40 minutes/ rinse until not feeling slimy (the skein, I mean).
Awesome achievement! As mentioned above by Jennie Little, "A Weaver's Garden" by Rita Buchanan has a small section on Yuccas and mentions that First Nations peoples were using the fibre for making baskets, fishnets, carrying bags, sandals and mats long before Europeans appeared on the scene. In another section she records that Yucca roots are a source of saponins - so a source of "soap". That might be useful for softening up the yarn.
Surprise . . . it's still in print
Reporting back. As nice as yucca is I don't think it's worth it as much. Way too much work. However I've also learned in the past few years this that you can make a cotton like fiber out of the inner bark of mulberry branches. The fibers are super strong, white and soft. The Chickasaw and other native people used to do this an still do to this day. You can do this with the native red mulberry tree or white mulberry tree which is way more abundant. This can be done in several ways. The easiest ways are dew retting and tank/container retting. Be sure to gather the fiber in the spring. As this won't work in other seasons. The fiber will be brittle, weak and useless in other seasons. Here are my results.
Here's the old 1960s study experiment on Yucca fiber. That inspired me to work on it. And how the natives processed the fiber in a few ways. https://www.jstor.org/stable/25146665
Following this one. I have been playing around with nettle, grass, cattail leaf, juncus, and blackberry vine. I have some flax.dried that I grew, but that's all the farther I've gotten. Blackberry is the most invasive, but also the most passion in the year to get the fibers from. Plus, blackberry sure it pretty strong, bit not very soft. Maybe retting the fiber will help. The easiest to mess with was cattail, but I haven't gotten it into fluid stage yet, just tiny strings. It also didn't want to stay together when spinning. It makes great cordage for basket weaving, though. Very nice looking. I wove some cattail cordage into a watch band, and then had to sew that onto a piece of denim for comfort. After about a year of use, the weave started to unravel. It was still pretty thick. That was a two ply twist cordage and it started to break at the bending point on the wristband.
My nettle, I found an clip on YT by Sally Pointer where she just stripped the fibers.right after she picked the nettles. No retting. I have a dried bundle of fibers setting that I rub between my hands whenever I walk by it. I haven't carded it yet. Do they do that wet, or dry? Seems to me you would waste an awful lot of that precious nettle carding it dry. But the nettle cordage I experimented with is SO soft. Nettle, no retting.Just scraping.off the green.
I picked regular old grass from my garden and made some cheese after it dried a bit. I put it on kids toy weaving look and it's holding as a warp so far. But my hands are killing me from all the skinning and training I've been doing, so I had to stop.
I have precious little of flax or nettle, so I'd sure like to make that blackberry work. It's taking over my property.
Pic below.of.my grass cordage from.today, the HARDEST way to make string
Sign....
P Colvin wrote:Following this one. I have been playing around with nettle, grass, cattail leaf, juncus, and blackberry vine. ...
My nettle, I found an clip on YT by Sally Pointer where she just stripped the fibers.right after she picked the nettles. No retting. I have a dried bundle of fibers setting that I rub between my hands whenever I walk by it. I haven't carded it yet. Do they do that wet, or dry? Seems to me you would waste an awful lot of that precious nettle carding it dry. But the nettle cordage I experimented with is SO soft. Nettle, no retting.Just scraping.off the green.
... I'd sure like to make that blackberry work. It's taking over my property.
Pic below.of.my grass cordage from.today, the HARDEST way to make string
Sign....
There must be another thread on this same subject. I am sure I posted somewhere about my way to process stinging nettles, and it is not here ...
I follow all videos by Sally Pointer, she is great! She has several on stinging nettles. There's one in which she makes fine sewing thread, using the nettles without any retting. There's more drying, wetting again and more scraping after the step in which they look like your photo. I did it too ... I hope I can find the photos.
I agree with you: use the blackberry (bramble) vines for cordage. But from blackberries you won't get that soft and fine cordage that's possible with stinging nettles.
I've made nettle fiber very soft by boiling it and chewing the fibers for a long time. Washing it and letting it dry in the sun. It's white like cotton.
Very fine yucca fibers the bigger bundle is semi soft good enough for textiles the middle one is the softest. And makes very excellent long and strong thread. I processed them the same way like how the native people did it in the study I linked. I'm guessing adding juniper ashes to the boiling water helps remove the flesh off the leaves.
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I think the fibers are either too short, too brittle, or a combination of the two. Milkweed grows near my in-laws' place, so maybe I'll try to get some next year. Thanks for the idea.
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