we are getting a new electric bicycle! Help us pick out which one!

Jay Angler wrote:

Daniel Schmidt wrote:I recently harvested one of the Rad Rover bikes at basecamp to get the others going.

This makes it sound as if in less than 5 years, all the electric bikes have enough problems that they aren't working?

As someone who is considering such a bike, I'd really like to know possible reasons for such a short trouble-free lifespan:
1. are they just being used so constantly, that they have multiple times the mileage than a single owner would have given them?
2. is it "the tragedy of the commons" type thing - someone else will fix it attitude, so little problems become big ones?
3. is it just that they get harder than average terrain they're dealing with - off-road use, extra heavy use, which has taken it's toll?
4. is it that they simply aren't being built well enough for what people need - "enshitification" of bicycle standards where the companies only want them to survive 5 years?
5. other possible issues I haven't thought of.

If there's another thread where the quality/longevity of the different bikes is discussed, a link would be great.

It would be nice to hear if the ebikes at Wheaton Labs are all suffering from excessive wear and breakdowns at this point, and if so, possible reasons why.

I can report that the Juiced brand ebike I got around that same time has had no major issues thus far.  I have about 6600 miles on it at this point and have had to replace the tires as I wore them out.  Of course there has been the occasional flat tire from nails, thorns, etc.  The battery doesn't seem quite as robust as it originally was, but that said I did recently do 70 miles on it in one day.  This took it from full charge down to the point where it was flashing its low battery signal at me for the last couple miles home.  It was still providing powered assist though, just not at much at that point.  Originally I had estimated I could get 80 to 100 miles on a full charge, though I never did put this to the test.  So it's also quite possible the battery hasn't changed its capacity at all, I was just too optimistic at the start.

I bought a second ebike from the same company a year or so after my first one for when I'm out on extended trips to AZ.  I have just over 900 miles on this one.  It has had a couple issues.  Well, to be fair the first issue was there from the start and I bought it at a steep discount as a "scratch and dent" unit.  This issue was the headlight not working.  Turns out I had to replace the main control unit to fix that.  The one part that did break down on me was the torque sensor.  This made the pedal power assist sporadic or non existent, though the throttle assist would still function.  The replacement part was about $100, not hard to put in, and it's been working fine since.

The one big issue I've had though is that the company, Juiced Bikes, went out of business.  So it was a bit more of a challenge to find replacement parts.  I found them on EBAY from someone who I believe used to work for the company.  It sounded like he had a little network of other former employees who all had various spare parts to sell.  My guess is that in the long run I'll have to give up the bike due to a lack of spare electronic parts.  Though I might be able to find or use similar parts from other brands.  I don't know.  

If I were to buy another ebike today I would first look at companies that have emerged as the more stable, major players to hopefully help ensure longer replace part support as things do eventually wear out.

I should probably say that I do love my ebikes!!  I resisted getting one for a long time, but have never regretted it once I did buy my first one.

Jay Angler wrote:
This makes it sound as if in less than 5 years, all the electric bikes have enough problems that they aren't working?

It is very much #2 from your list - infinitely too many things going on, Paul spends gobs of moneys when people say they will do stuff, and ultimately basic things like changing a tire or finding the parts once bought simply never happens. The only serious problem that wasn't a basic assembly or maintenance issue was weak spot welds on the #7 connection to the BMS on one bike. Fortunately it was a fun issue to diagnose and I brought my battery spot welder with me. I had to turn it up and pulse it multiple times to get it to stick. The same bike also happened to have the wheel off because the tire had been beaten up. The dust around here is much finer and rougher on the brakes than the sand of Jacksonville, which lead to two of the calipers no longer being able to adjust. I'm sure with proper maintenance it would have had a longer service life.

The BMS issue was caused by the fact that they solder pads on to the BMS which adds too much thermal mass and make the spot welds weak, but that's the only one that has had an issue. All of the other bikes appear to have been ridden to the point basic maintenance was no longer an idea but a necessity, and then left for someone else to deal with. With all of the perpetual tool maintenance, care of growie systems and more, plus the availability of 4 wheeled vehicles, the ebikes were never going to make their way on to the list of daily tasks. I've had lots of trouble with my leg and foot in the past, so getting a bike going to help me get around was very much a necessity so I don't wear myself out too fast, and it became my top priority for my first Saturday here last weekend.

I was told the ecells bike had a whole host of issues, but I haven't even touched it yet. The shower shack, lab pump house, and other things to make life easier for all of the boots is more important at the moment. As someone who has DIY'ed a dual motor setup, I have lots of thoughts on how to go about things that likely differ greatly from however the ecells bike actually operates. I would greatly prefer the larger 26" fat tires like my old fat bike for the handling, and depending on how the front motor engages compared to the rear motor it probably could help with staying upright going through rough terrain. But I'm really not a fan of prebuilt ebikes because they do things in ways I never would. DIY all the way for me. Unfortunately I never got a pic of the final form of my trike before leaving Florida, but having dual throttles for a rear geared motor and direct drive front motor was pretty amazing. Grin Technologies has a great video on the subject:

Daniel Schmidt wrote:

It is very much #2 from your list - infinitely too many things going on...

Hmmm... The Lab has days called "half-assed holidays" or similar. I wonder if twice a year they need a half-ass bike maintenance day or half day? It would be a group approach so people could help each other diagnose or learn new skills etc. Amazing what a little chain oil can do to an older bike!

and wrote:

The dust around here is much finer and rougher on the brakes than the sand of Jacksonville, which lead to two of the calipers no longer being able to adjust. I'm sure with proper maintenance it would have had a longer service life.

For us it is clay mud... in the wet season! For one of our farm "roads" (good enough for the lawn tractor, but not cars), Hubby splurged on what we Canadians call "road base" from the local quarry. Not cheap, but that road has had no maintenance in over 10 years other than a leaf raking in the fall to shift the leaves and pine cones to the side. The cones often end up in my biochar mix or our kindling box.

For me the hardest time on my bike is the winter with the snow and road salt.  That does a number on my chain.  I frequently need to oil the chain if not do a full degreasing and reoiling.  Fine dust from the dirt road I live on can be an issue too.  It sounds like there is even more fine dust there.

Perhaps it would be worth pointing out that there are skip BBs for bicycle maintenance to help incentivize folks to do this.  https://permies.com/wiki/pep-badge-tool-care