we are getting a new electric bicycle! Help us pick out which one!

paul wheaton wrote:
So the rad bike might last fine for three years, and the surly might last twelve?

I don't know enough to say that "A would last x2 or 4x longer than B", but essentially yes: the better quality parts will most likely last longer, stand up to harsher conditions, and be more serviceable than a cheaper equivalent. Quality parts also tend to increase reliability, comfort and ride quality. Everything can feel a lot "smoother" (tighter tolerances, better engineering) and more enjoyable. This is from my experience going from hand-me-down and department store bikes to my Surly Disc Trucker Touring bike, which has been a go-to bike for decades for people who do 20,000km+ trips around the world with very few issues.

The question is, is the expense worth it. Some people wouldn't even notice a difference, others would notice but value saving money over a "smoother," more reliable ride. I think the reason the Rad Power Bikes have won so many awards is because it's incredible what they've been able to create at such a low price. There are better bikes out there, but the Rad Bike hits all the boxes without too much sacrifice.

Consider the 80-20 rule. It might cost you %80 more to get %20 better performance. If you NEED that extra %20, it's totally worth it. If you don't, then don't bother (the law of diminishing returns and all that).

It is a bit far, but my friend over here has been crazy about cargo bikes for a long time. So much so that he designed and built his own model. He then galvanized them instead of painting them. They have a ball hitch in the back so the bike trailers mount like a car trailer. He now has a bike delivery service for the Bohemian equivalent of Amazon called Alza CZ.  He made an electric trike version for the city of Prague painted blue that had independent suspension and pedal drive to both rear tires. Something like that would do well in the mountains I think. Cobblestone hills might be a similar terrain? He also has opted for the big fat tires now so he can even drive his bikes on snow. Maybe someone there could put together something similar. If you are interested I could ask if he has any plans and if he would share them with you? I've driven his bikes and they are a bit heavy, but they are super solid and can handle a great amount of weight. One guy here uses his to haul iron to the scrapyard. It is the normal cargo bike with a trailer. I'll try to get a photo of his cargo bikes, I cannot find it right now.

Good luck,

Jason

Brand is important and buying local. Think about distance of travel and how much weight. 500w I would say is max if you go higher watts your battery capacity will reduce.
Ebike and a trailer is possible, be realistic about the weight of cargo and size weight of rider. Happy to advise more. Christopher

If you want to carry tools and gear, I recommend a 3-wheeler.  What the tires can safely carry can be a limiting factor.  If you are going with a heavy bike, ensure brakes are capable for the load - possibly discs.  If you are going to go with a lithium battery technology, get a good BMS and charger from the same vendor as the battery pack.  If you are bargain-hunting, this is a low-margin business and finger-pointing is common if your charger and battery don't come from the same source when you have problems.  Try to find vendors who have been around for a while with a good rep, lots of these small operations come and go.  (For that matter, some big ones have disappeared or exited the e-bike market, too.)  My time from e-bikes was pioneering times and pretty much everything was hand-rolled. (I was part of the campaign to make e-bikes legal in Ontario.)  I have some webpages from the time that might be of interest to some.  It's old school, but I'm still a fan of lead-acid batteries.  Heavy, but can be advantageous over the drive wheel(s).  However, they're relatively cheap, will last with a good charger, and there's a core charge to recover at end of life.  I still maintain a distributorship for lead-acid battery chargers for a few die-hards.  Anyway, if you want to see some old-school stuff on e-bikes:  https://www.econogics.com/ev/evbikes.htm
Also, if you're going to ride on municipal roads or bike lines, especially with a heavy bike, check your local rules on e-bikes before making your purchase decisions.

James Sullivan wrote: I prefer removable batteries and make sure you are not charging below zero.

F or C?

ECells website

These seem to be a good fit for the topology at the lab. yet two of their cheapest model are out of your budget.  The bikes do have benefit of being an AWD bike, motor on each wheel and support small veteran owned businesses.

Met a couple that bought two of their more expensive models and they received a $500 or so discount, plus some goodies.  They took it onto Oregon beaches and through forest trails at home without any problems.   The company might be able to work some sort of deal with you if order multiple bikes.

David Huang wrote:I'd suggest not just getting any old rack for the back, but to look for a heavy duty rack that can hold some actual weight.  I can strap logs on mine and am guessing there will be times when some of the boots will want to haul heavier things as well.  I also find a nice set of panniers to be very useful, even more so than my front basket has been.  If your terrain is bumpy there may be an issue with things bouncing out of a basket.

The panniers also distribute the weight better over the back axle. I've never been a big fan of a front basket: you are quite limited in the weight you can safely add to the directional wheel [front wheel]. It makes the bike top heavy and harder to handle. The panniers, which sandwich the rear wheel hang much lower, and so they add stability to the whole rig. Adding weight to the back/ motor wheel might also make it more stable in snow/ mud as it adds to the traction.

I recently purchased an electric Rad Rover 6 plus mountain bike. 4 inch wide tires and baskets on the front in the back. It will be used for trial hauling and work on the farm sites.  After months of looking at bikes I found this one to be the most durable with great customer service.  

Daniel A Halsey wrote:I recently purchased an electric Rad Rover 6 plus mountain bike. 4 inch wide tires and baskets on the front in the back. It will be used for trial hauling and work on the farm sites.  After months of looking at bikes I found this one to be the most durable with great customer service.  

Yikes! I wish I could afford the price tag. Between $1500 and $2,000 is too rich for my blood. More power to you though, and Merry Christmas,

Richard Kutscher wrote:ECells website

These seem to be a good fit for the topology at the lab. yet two of their cheapest model are out of your budget.  The bikes do have benefit of being an AWD bike, motor on each wheel and support small veteran owned businesses.

Met a couple that bought two of their more expensive models and they received a $500 or so discount, plus some goodies.  They took it onto Oregon beaches and through forest trails at home without any problems.   The company might be able to work some sort of deal with you if order multiple bikes.

Oh my!   All wheel drive!  

I fairly strongly recommend the RadWagon.

I worked, prior to departing a month ago, at the only Rad authorized servicer in the Cleveland area. Their bikes consistently have quirks, especially in the rear hub, that can annoy the hell out of a leisure rider, but these things really do seem to hold up to some fairly rough use. Admittedly we saw few RadWagons (but still some), as cargo bikes are just less popular, but we were fairly pleased with the ones we did see--appropriately sized rotor for the brakes and sturdy frame construction. These are often points of concern in the no-name budget e-bikes (we were frequently concerned for the riders' well-being on many of the bikes--electric and otherwise--that came through our shop, but never with the Rads).

From what our customers tell us, the customer service experience interacting with Rad is effectively the same as our experience as an authorized servicer (which bugged the hell out of us). That said, that means Rad is very willing to send replacement parts to solve problems. They are also very UNwilling to send a proper service manual (which makes solving electrical issues tiresome) and are unwilling to send multiple parts at once, which can make troubleshooting an issue. I imagine these drawbacks are far less of an issue for a consumer than for us working in a commercial setting with certain expectations about turnaround on work orders.

In summary: The RadWagon is exactly what I think a $2,000 e-cargo-bike ought to be, and the customer service is pretty decent for the consumer too

Mike Haasl wrote:

James Sullivan wrote: I prefer removable batteries and make sure you are not charging below zero.

F or C?

That is C, I forget l need to specify.

Newbie here, and just looking at your electric bike thread and wondering...  I'm an old guy, retired broadcast engineer (the old kind, worked with big tubes and things on top of mountains) and wondering how this electric bike thing meets the goals of back-to-the-land kinds of conservationist folks.  They are not doable with lead/acid technology.  It is only the lithium ion technology that makes them relatively effective.   And even the Li batteries don't approach the energy density of diesel or gasoline or propane (which incidentally burns very clean with low emissions).  

On the other hand, the environmental impact of lithium mining is significant, and though there are large deposits in Nevada, I think most of it comes from S. America--where they are not so stringent with their mining regulations.  And so...having grown up logging and cowboying in the Blue Mountains of eastern Oregon, I'm wondering why you are trying to homestead with bicycles?  

Bicycles are an excellent means of personal transportation, especially in flatland, high-density population areas.  Some electric assistance in places like San Francisco makes pretty good sense...but hauling firewood in the Rockies?  Actually, horses are a much better alternative if you are totally opposed to the emissions of fossil fuel...and they don't need to be recharged, which opens up another entire consideration if you are off grid.  My info may be out of date, so...just wondering about the e-bike rational.  

I've been into the self reliance thing for many years (pretty much the way rural people used to live all the time) and I still have a large garden and make my own black diesel which allows me to run my old '86 F250 for about $0.80 per gallon.  I'll stop.  Lonnie

I have a Rad Power Bike 750 watt motor very stout construction.  Wide tires.  @1500 dollars gives you money for a nice Deer Cart modified to be towed by it.

Be aware many cheaper e-bikes have reliability issues.  Rad has a pretty long history of quality.

All E-bikes need to be kept clean from salt as they are hard on those electronic parts.  

A relatively new company on the block.  I really like the more stout look.  I messaged them recently and they will have some new models coming out with front and rear shock absorbers.  https://mod-bikes.com/product/mod-easy/?attribute_choose-color=Charcoal+Black&attribute_choose-sidecar=Sidebasket

Hello, just a word of caution regarding lithium batteries. Currently there is no product available that will fully extinguish a lithium fire. Battery cells do fail on occasion and if the cells short out they will ignite.
Boeing engineers decided that the best mitigation was to design a thick stainless steel box that would take a couple of hours to burn through, giving them time to re-route and land. So if a lithium cell catches on fire midflight they put it in the box and close the lid and head for the closest airport. All this to say, be aware you may need to jettison the battery pack in the event of fire. A lithium fire burns at 2000c.

I would really consider a recumbent trike, rather than a bike
TerraTrike.com has an american made, all-terrain electric-assist trike that I use to pull a bobtrailer with tools, kids, everything.
It doesn't tip over and the hill climbing power is amazing.
As a recumbent its a tremendous relief for arthritic joints and a pleasure to ride after standing and working.

James Sullivan wrote: I prefer removable batteries and make sure you are not charging below zero. (C)

We are currently having atypically cold weather. I was out in the field for 1 1/2 hours and remembered when I came in that my cell phone needed charging. The phone took twice as long to charge as normal despite being in a back pocket which was two layers of heavy denim. I realized after reading this thread that the only issue I could use to explain it was that it was too cold. I remember something similar happening a couple weeks back, but I thought both times that I simply didn't have the plug in properly. Now I think I need to let it sit in the warmth for an hour before charging.

So winter temps at Boot Camp could certainly could be something that will need to be worked with/adapted for.

John Salmen wrote:I would really consider a recumbent trike, rather than a bike

I've had long term mild back issues and thought for years that a recumbent bike would be the solution. However, I got an opportunity to try one an acquaintance had and on our bumpy roads, I found that it jarred and irritated my back more. When I tried a different friend's bike on city street, I found it much more comfortable. However, I also think that suspension systems in bikes have improved since the first test I did, so I mention this to encourage people to research it further.

However, I think your comment also suggests to me another parameter to explore: if multiple people are going to be using this bike, how easy it is to change things such as seat height, handlebar slope etc to accommodate different riders safely, may differ between different manufacturers. If the distances are relatively short, the set-up doesn't need to be perfect, but the difference in seat height between someone 5' tall vs 6' when both safety and efficiency are taken into consideration, may need to be addressed.

Lonnie Shurtleff wrote:  Actually, horses are a much better alternative if you are totally opposed to the emissions of fossil fuel...and they don't need to be recharged, which opens up another entire consideration if you are off grid.

I certainly like horse output composted for my garden. I suspect at this time, the learning curve would be huge for many people involved in this program, and the work involved in caring for the animals would offset any gains in transportation efficiency. Also, from what I've been told, the upfront cost of the animal, plus ongoing costs of food/bedding and possibly vet, would make this option unaffordable.

Lonnie Shurtleff wrote:Newbie here, and just looking at your electric bike thread and wondering...  I'm an old guy, retired broadcast engineer (the old kind, worked with big tubes and things on top of mountains) and wondering how this electric bike thing meets the goals of back-to-the-land kinds of conservationist folks.  They are not doable with lead/acid technology.  It is only the lithium ion technology that makes them relatively effective.   And even the Li batteries don't approach the energy density of diesel or gasoline or propane (which incidentally burns very clean with low emissions).  

On the other hand, the environmental impact of lithium mining is significant, and though there are large deposits in Nevada, I think most of it comes from S. America--where they are not so stringent with their mining regulations.  And so...having grown up logging and cowboying in the Blue Mountains of eastern Oregon, I'm wondering why you are trying to homestead with bicycles?  

Bicycles are an excellent means of personal transportation, especially in flatland, high-density population areas.  Some electric assistance in places like San Francisco makes pretty good sense...but hauling firewood in the Rockies?  Actually, horses are a much better alternative if you are totally opposed to the emissions of fossil fuel...and they don't need to be recharged, which opens up another entire consideration if you are off grid.  My info may be out of date, so...just wondering about the e-bike rational.  

I've been into the self reliance thing for many years (pretty much the way rural people used to live all the time) and I still have a large garden and make my own black diesel which allows me to run my old '86 F250 for about $0.80 per gallon.  I'll stop.  Lonnie

Please don't stop Lonnie. We'd all like to hear what you have to say. Start some posts on your black diesel and the other things you are doing to live self reliant. Thank you

Like lead, lithium from batteries is starting to be recycled. A lot of the used lithium batteries are ending up in the hands of DIY folks for building their own battery systems for homes, E-bikes etc.

There has also been a movement within some hunting groups to move to E-bikes for better scouting & animal recovery out of the bush. Those who are hunting this way are gaining a better understanding of nature without the noise of a combustion engine. US Marines are said to be using them or trialling them as scouting tools as well.

I think the ease of having a couple bikes at the Lab for running back and forth is a great idea for a short 2-3 mile trip.

Yes the new E-bikes are quite nice and way different from the ones we had a few years ago at least from a cost perspective.  I commuted to work this summer on a ebike till I crashed it. My doctor has told me not to ride bikes, he's also told me not to play on trampolines and cut down on coffee. Not sure how I can comply with that.

Also there is the undeniable fun factor!

Paul, Please make everyone wear a helmet! Also the less you discharge the batteries the more cycles you'll get out of them.  I can guarantee when you get a bike or two, everyone will want to use them so make sure to manage the batteries right from the start.  Also milk crates make great rear baskets. If you'll be hauling wood build a trailer.

I've attached a picture of my trailer, it's more of a cart, I put the handle over the seat post and secure it with a bungee cord.

I do deliveries for Uber Eats on a bicycle for at least 6 hours every night so I've learned stuff.

It does depend what you want to do on your bicycle.

My biggest tip would be don't buy a pre made bike. They're overpriced and most will be useless if your battery goes flat. You want a bike you can still ride when that battery is out. It's not always about the battery range. There's human error (thinking you've charged the battery when you haven't, having to ride further than you expected etc).

Many of the standard e-bikes are really heavy and totally crap to ride without the electric assist.

Also what is your plan for maintaining your e-bike. E-bike mechanics are ridiculously expensive compared to the price of the bike so any maintenance is going to blow the real budget of your bike to hell.

You're much better off buying a really high quality used bicycle and putting a conversion kit on it. The easiest conversion is a front hub motor (basically you just have to change the well, mount the battery to the drink holder nuts and mount the throttle. It is very basic if you don't bother with the pedal sensor and just use a throttle).

Once you've got your first bike set up and you're happy I'd recommend buying a second conversion kit...then you have spare parts for everything when something fails or has a problem. This is my go to kit. 26 inch front wheel hub motor There'll be something similar in the USA you can buy...
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/124792382152?hash=item1d0e34a2c8:g:ndQAAOSwUzlhOEjM

Having 2 used bicycles that you convert is also a great idea. Even high quality used bicycles are really cheap. A good bike that retails at $800+ you can usually pick up for less than $200.

A conversion kit (wheel, battery, battery mount, wiring, throttle etc) you can usually pick up in the $500 to $700 range.

I'd recommend getting bigger tyres and using tannus tyre armour inserts in your tyres. Those with thornless tubes should ensure you never get a puncture and even if you do you can still ride at 10km/hr. That should cost you around $100.

Instead of buying a carrier it is often cheaper to buy a second hand bike that has a good carrier on it (you can often pick a whole bike up with carrier for $50 or less). You can give the bike away after taking off the carrier or keep it for spare parts or as a spare bike.

When you're buying bicycles choose a standard size wheel for any bike you buy (eg 26 inch) and stick with it. That way you'll have spare parts you can use for all your bikes. The easiest type of bicycle to convert (and one of the best multi-purpose bikes) is a hard tailed mountain bike (they have suspension on the front...not on the back).

So 2 bikes at under $1,000 each. If you have to repair one you'll have the other ready to go.

You'll also want really good locks. A U-lock with cable that is tested and rated by Sold Secure as Gold or better. Always lock your bike.

Think through how you're going to maintain your bike. Learn to do basic maintenance yourself but you will come up with problems that are beyond you so it's either just replace it (that's often the most cost effective route...buy a bike second hand that has the part you need and put it on) or find a local bike mechanic (that gets really expensive really fast).

To put this in context my main bicycle is an Orbea mountain bike which cost me $120. In the last 3 months I had a few issues that I had a very economical bike mechanic using used parts repair that cost me $250 total.

I make good money and he's a young guy so I don't mind paying it but I could buy another solid, name brand used bike for that. With bicycles it's nearly always cheaper to buy second hand bikes and chop and swap than it is to pay a bike mechanic.

Also learn basic skills like cleaning and oiling your chain, adjusting your brakes etc. There is no economy in paying a bike mechanic for these things.

If you want to carry a lot of heavier gear consider a trailer. Hanging heavy gear on a bike makes it hard to ride, hard to park, and can be quite unstable and dangerous if you don't balance it perfectly. Panniers are great for carrying light stuff...but it takes a lot of skill to ride safely when they have a heavy load. Add a wet, slippery road, manhole cover, mud etc and the bike will just slide out from under you.

You can pick up good bike trailers very cheap second hand. A quality trailer that holds two children you can usually pick up in the $60 to $120 range and it has a cover to keep your load dry. Or there are other trailers you might get for as little as $20 second hand that will do the job. Again it depends what you're doing on your bike.

One basic tip...buy all your bicycle stuff second hand (buying a whole second hand bike that has what you want on it is usually the cheapest option). And buy your electric motor, batteries etc new. Second hand electric gear is beyond the capacity of most people to maintain and fix.

I hope I've given you some real world information here.

People rabbit on about the watts of the motor and the size of the battery. It's mostly bullshit. You can carry an extra battery and swap them over if you need to. You can also carry a charger. Size of the motor is only an issue if you're carrying large loads up big hills.

What's far more important is the quality of the actual bicycle you're riding (not the electrical parts...the actual bike) and how you're going to maintain the bike.

I strongly agree with the points mentioned above. The only issue is that this is likely to be a community bike, where numerous people of different skill and knowledge levels will be using whatever bikes are available. If someone there is ready to become a bike mechanic, then using a quality standard bike (with standard, affordable, easy to find parts) will be much cheaper to buy and to maintain. If not, then having a bike with a warranty might be the only good option for the moment. I'd really like to see a lot more going on with bikes up there to reduce the need for gas powered vehicles going back and forth. Hopefully I can lend a hand, or at least some knowledge going into next year.

For indulgence I would get this! Stealth Bomber ebike is more of a motorcycle and has been built all wheel drive and costs more.
https://www.electricbike.com/stealth-bomber-review/

A message on the rad stuff:

Ebike prices will rise at 12:01 a.m. Pacific Time on December 29, 2021.

So I guess I would be wise to order from rad today if I am gonna.  

With Kirk's matching funds:  two rad bicycles or one fancier bike?   Speak up now!

Rad power bikes are a great deal. You can get compact foldable bikes. They have front suspension and the batteries are removable for charging.

paul wheaton wrote:

Richard Kutscher wrote:ECells website

Oh my!   All wheel drive!  

How do folks feel about this rig?

https://ecells.com/product/e-cells-super-monarch-awd-1000-watt-candy-apple-red/

paul wheaton wrote:

paul wheaton wrote:

Richard Kutscher wrote:ECells website

Oh my!   All wheel drive!  

How do folks feel about this rig?

https://ecells.com/product/e-cells-super-monarch-awd-1000-watt-candy-apple-red/

Wow yes all day long buy this.

paul wheaton wrote:How do folks feel about this rig?

https://ecells.com/product/e-cells-super-monarch-awd-1000-watt-candy-apple-red/

That is the model they got and it came with some extra stuff as they ordered a his and hers.  Couldn't stop talking about it.  It's on my list when get coin.

Maybe ask ask if they have more aggressive tires due to some hills you have, yet think it would work well if choose it.
Edit:  Read reviews and tires seem to work well in snow.

paul wheaton wrote:A message on the rad stuff:

Ebike prices will rise at 12:01 a.m. Pacific Time on December 29, 2021.

So I guess I would be wise to order from rad today if I am gonna.  

With Kirk's matching funds:  two rad bicycles or one fancier bike?   Speak up now!

I'm not really enough of a bike geek to know all the ins and outs of what makes one component better than another, or one bike superior to another.  The Rad bikes, the Surley bike, and the Ecell Super Monarch all look to me like they could be good bikes.  I think it's super awesome such generous donors came forward for this project!  I think I would be delighted to have any of these.

All that said, one thing that concerns me with the Rad bikes is the smaller diameter tires.  Is it going to be a challenge to find replacement tubes if flats happen?  Probably not a big deal if you could just get a few extra and store them for eventual use.  However what really concerns me about the smaller tire is something I observed years ago during the Toilet Tricycle Race that happened during ArtPrize.  For amusement here is video of it.



If you watch the video you will notice that the woman riding the yellow trike actually starts out in the lead.  She probably deserved to win as she was likely pedaling harder and faster than anyone else there.  However, she ended up coming in dead last, and not by a close margin either.  She was WAY behind everyone at the end.  The reason, if you look carefully at all the toilet trikes you'll see they all basically had the same diameter drive wheel in the front except for the yellow trike which had a significantly smaller one, much like the Rad bikes.  So for each rotation of the pedals she was probably only getting half the distance the others were.  In other words she had to pedal twice as much just to keep up!  Now all the expended energy wasn't really lost.  She had more power behind her pedaling, meaning it was like she was in a lower gear, better able to haul heavy loads or go up steep hills.  

Thus what I see with the Rad wheel diameter is that it will function as though it's always in a lower gear.  This might be good for the terrain.  I don't really know what Wheaton Labs looks like.  However, I'd be concerned about not having the ability to get the equivalent of "higher gears" that a standard diameter tire might offer.

With the Surly bike it looks awesome.  I like the long back rack cargo bike aspect of it.  My concern there is that even with the super generous donors the cost isn't covered unless the government e-bike rebate/tax credit thing happens.  Based on someone's post it sounded like this isn't a sure thing yet, which also suggests to me that even if the tax credit does happen the purchase might have to wait until the bill is passed in order to qualify.  In short the funds for this bike might not be there.

So based on these reasons of the three I would probably go for the Ecell Monarch, though my concern there is that the weight is so great you will almost NEED to use the power assist to tackle hills and such.

David Huang wrote: However, I'd be concerned about not having the ability to get the equivalent of "higher gears" that a standard diameter tire might offer.

The trikes in that video had pedals fixed to the front wheel. All of the mountain bikes have gears specifically made to work with the wheel diameter of the bike. Also, most of the motors I have seen for smaller diameter wheels are wound differently to give a higher RPM. With a different circumference and RPM, it might not be exactly the same speed, but there is some compensation. A top speed should be listed with any bike you buy.

The smaller diameter does have the advantage of lower effective overall ratio for starting from a standstill. While beneficial, I'd imagine there is a certain point where lack of traction will negate the benefits of ultra steep gear ratios.

With any uncommon size wheel, especially with the popularity of fat bike tires, spares on hand are a necessity to keep a bike going. There are also products like FlatOut or tire inserts that work much better than slime for stopping leaks or preventing punctures in the first place. I would also look at other wear items like brakes to see if they are commonly available.

I don't have much experience with prebuilt ebikes, but two warrantied bikes sounds better than one. The only thing that would weigh heavily for me is if any of them would use a local authorized shop to do warranty repair vs shipping parts, waiting for new parts, then assembling yourself or paying out of pocket for repairs.

My friend custom builds electric bikes. He can build it to what ever your needs are.
Give him a call and he can give you a quote.
Randy Nordmans 218-851-9388

750 watts minimum, suspension on both wheels. Trailers are available. Challenger brand is one of the best. Electric transportation is over priced so shop carefully.

Just wanted to mention that there are also electric assist bicycles that are enclosed - not sure if that would be a need/ be helpful, or not. Tried to find a good option under 4K but didn't have any luck at least on amazon shopping. Not sure how much towing weight they could handle, but just wanted to make sure you knew it was an option. Know that some have seats for 2 people, and even extra space in the back, also enclosed. Maybe there's someone who has more experience with this type of bike/bikes.

Andrew Cavanagh wrote:I do deliveries for Uber Eats on a bicycle for at least 6 hours every night so I've learned stuff.

It does depend what you want to do on your bicycle.

My biggest tip would be don't buy a pre made bike. They're overpriced and most will be useless if your battery goes flat. You want a bike you can still ride when that battery is out. It's not always about the battery range. There's human error (thinking you've charged the battery when you haven't, having to ride further than you expected etc).

Many of the standard e-bikes are really heavy and totally crap to ride without the electric assist.

Also what is your plan for maintaining your e-bike. E-bike mechanics are ridiculously expensive compared to the price of the bike so any maintenance is going to blow the real budget of your bike to hell.

You're much better off buying a really high quality used bicycle and putting a conversion kit on it. The easiest conversion is a front hub motor (basically you just have to change the well, mount the battery to the drink holder nuts and mount the throttle. It is very basic if you don't bother with the pedal sensor and just use a throttle).

Once you've got your first bike set up and you're happy I'd recommend buying a second conversion kit...then you have spare parts for everything when something fails or has a problem. This is my go to kit. 26 inch front wheel hub motor There'll be something similar in the USA you can buy...
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/124792382152?hash=item1d0e34a2c8:g:ndQAAOSwUzlhOEjM

Having 2 used bicycles that you convert is also a great idea. Even high quality used bicycles are really cheap. A good bike that retails at $800+ you can usually pick up for less than $200.

A conversion kit (wheel, battery, battery mount, wiring, throttle etc) you can usually pick up in the $500 to $700 range.

I'd recommend getting bigger tyres and using tannus tyre armour inserts in your tyres. Those with thornless tubes should ensure you never get a puncture and even if you do you can still ride at 10km/hr. That should cost you around $100.

Instead of buying a carrier it is often cheaper to buy a second hand bike that has a good carrier on it (you can often pick a whole bike up with carrier for $50 or less). You can give the bike away after taking off the carrier or keep it for spare parts or as a spare bike.

When you're buying bicycles choose a standard size wheel for any bike you buy (eg 26 inch) and stick with it. That way you'll have spare parts you can use for all your bikes. The easiest type of bicycle to convert (and one of the best multi-purpose bikes) is a hard tailed mountain bike (they have suspension on the front...not on the back).

So 2 bikes at under $1,000 each. If you have to repair one you'll have the other ready to go.

You'll also want really good locks. A U-lock with cable that is tested and rated by Sold Secure as Gold or better. Always lock your bike.

Think through how you're going to maintain your bike. Learn to do basic maintenance yourself but you will come up with problems that are beyond you so it's either just replace it (that's often the most cost effective route...buy a bike second hand that has the part you need and put it on) or find a local bike mechanic (that gets really expensive really fast).

To put this in context my main bicycle is an Orbea mountain bike which cost me $120. In the last 3 months I had a few issues that I had a very economical bike mechanic using used parts repair that cost me $250 total.

I make good money and he's a young guy so I don't mind paying it but I could buy another solid, name brand used bike for that. With bicycles it's nearly always cheaper to buy second hand bikes and chop and swap than it is to pay a bike mechanic.

Also learn basic skills like cleaning and oiling your chain, adjusting your brakes etc. There is no economy in paying a bike mechanic for these things.

If you want to carry a lot of heavier gear consider a trailer. Hanging heavy gear on a bike makes it hard to ride, hard to park, and can be quite unstable and dangerous if you don't balance it perfectly. Panniers are great for carrying light stuff...but it takes a lot of skill to ride safely when they have a heavy load. Add a wet, slippery road, manhole cover, mud etc and the bike will just slide out from under you.

You can pick up good bike trailers very cheap second hand. A quality trailer that holds two children you can usually pick up in the $60 to $120 range and it has a cover to keep your load dry. Or there are other trailers you might get for as little as $20 second hand that will do the job. Again it depends what you're doing on your bike.

One basic tip...buy all your bicycle stuff second hand (buying a whole second hand bike that has what you want on it is usually the cheapest option). And buy your electric motor, batteries etc new. Second hand electric gear is beyond the capacity of most people to maintain and fix.

I hope I've given you some real world information here.

People rabbit on about the watts of the motor and the size of the battery. It's mostly bullshit. You can carry an extra battery and swap them over if you need to. You can also carry a charger. Size of the motor is only an issue if you're carrying large loads up big hills.

What's far more important is the quality of the actual bicycle you're riding (not the electrical parts...the actual bike) and how you're going to maintain the bike.

I'm no expert.  I just built a MID DRIVE diy e-bike.  I've ridden mountain bikes most of my life.  I have a strong aversion to moving parts so hardtails (no rear suspension) is what I prefer.  Rear suspension on a lightly ridden short distance bike that hauls stuff seems absolutely ludicrous to me.  Particularly if the bike is going to have loads on it at times.  To each their own.

I almost agree with everything Andrew wrote above, except this one part,
"A conversion kit (wheel, battery, battery mount, wiring, throttle etc) you can usually pick up in the $500 to $700 range."

Don't get a hub conversion where the motor only propels the actual wheel it's mounted on.  Get a mid drive so that the motor actually has a transmission to use its power in.  On a hub/wheel drive the motor has no transmission.  It's like being stuck with one gear on a bike.  Not good for your knees in hills or if there are heavy loads, and most likely overheating the little hub drive motor making it work harder than it has to.  With a mid drive the motor can be used in the easiest gear setting and just spin away with very little load on it.  Even in the most demanding situations.

Here's a good video about it.  He uses the same bike with two different motors.  A hub drive 750w, and a mid drive using a 750w motor.  Everything else is exactly the same.  It's a dramatic difference.  

The most relevant part of the video is about 3:30 in.  Side by side comparison and a brief explanation after.  Just about a minute or two explains most of it.

Paul,

RadPower got back to me about my "discount" question. They don't seem to offer anything outright, but their rep sent me a link to sign up for their affiliate program, which gives you 5% commission (roughly $75-100 per bike sold). You can also apply as a "content creator" and potentially get free stuff as well as commissions.

Link to partnership application if you're interested:
https://www.radpowerbikes.com/pages/partner-with-us

I filled out their stuff about being a partner.  A few days ago.  Nothing yet - but it could be because of the holidays.

paul wheaton wrote:I filled out their stuff about being a partner.  A few days ago.  Nothing yet - but it could be because of the holidays.

It might take awhile for them to get back to you. This is part of the message they sent me:

Due to the high volume of applications we receive, it may take our marketing team some time to review every application that is submitted. We appreciate your patience and can assure you that every application we receive is reviewed by a real person. If they have any questions or would like to move forward, they will reach out to you directly!

If you want bum friendly cycling then get a decent seat post spring like Suntour, and not just bums, I have a bad ankle which was being aggravated by having to constantly lift myself off my seat to take the rough and the potholes, so I got a mid range sprung seat post, which has transformed the machine from bone shaker to a smooth ride.
More advice… learn how replace brake pads, clean and bleed the brakes, and make sure you use the correct brake oil as there are 2 main types; mineral oil or a dot number (apparently it makes a difference)

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41d6w0LyrAL._AC_SY879_.jpg

Just watched this review of the Big Easy that goes over some pros and cons:

Pros:
- size specific (small, medium, large frames)
- adventure ready
- special surly trailer hitch design
- availability (easy to get)
- high quality parts

Cons:
- price (expensive)
- where are the lights?
- dangerous second battery mount (underside of frame)
- single arm kickstand (useless when bike is fully loaded)



And this review of the ECell that compares it to a RadPower bike:


Spoiler: they ended up selling their Rad to get another ECell!

Instead of trying to get a single ebike that tries to do everything, it might make sense to get multiple bikes for specific purposes. Cheaply and easily convert a used bike into an ebike for those times where you just need to get from point A to point B, and use something like the Larry vs Harry Bullitt box bike ( https://curbsidecycle.com/products/bullitt-shimano-steps-e6100-bike-only ) when your need to haul stuff (a box bike is way more convenient then trying to strap items to a rear rack... although a trailer could be just as convenient.)

So I put in an order for the rad and emailed bill telling him that i wanna put a label on the bicycle calling it the CrimCycle.  He replied "paint it red and call it the Crimson CrimCycle!"  

Did you see how red the ecells bike is?  

So now I have ordered one of those.  That will be the Crimson CrimCycle.

A bright bike will be easier to spot when someone parks it and forgets where they parked it, so I vote for bright red and/or bright blue if available. Black, brown, green and yellows are more likely to look like all the plants/shrubs/trees/soil/buildings you've got at the lab!
Don't take that to mean I'm suggesting irresponsibility here - I just know how hard I've had to look for our dull green vehicle in a parking lot compared to the bright yellow one I owned once.