• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Carla Burke
  • Nancy Reading
  • r ranson
  • John F Dean
  • Pearl Sutton
  • paul wheaton
stewards:
  • Jay Angler
  • Anne Miller
  • Nicole Alderman
master gardeners:
  • Christopher Weeks
gardeners:
  • Maieshe Ljin
  • Benjamin Dinkel
  • Jeremy VanGelder

Where are the lines drawn?

 
pollinator
Posts: 884
Location: Kansas
236
forest garden fungi bee medical herbs writing greening the desert
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Interesting. In the last week I have seen comments about blowing things up, eating people, creating God, etc, but an intentionally humorous comment about "torturing" someone with OCD is an automatic suspension? I'm not sure where the lines are drawn. I saw one of these items with a comment FROM A MODERATOR saying that it was inappropriate. Fine. Did Gir-bot think I was honestly torturing someone? Why do some things fly and others don't? Would it have been caught as well if I used the word "teasing"?

I've removed what I thought was a humorous comment, with no negative intent. But I see this stuff go through all the time, so what's the difference? Just the wording? Gir-bot has specific words that aren't allowed? Or did someone report it? I have no way of knowing. If the PC police are active here I'll probably find myself in continuous hot water because I'm not at all PC.
 
pollinator
Posts: 11853
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
1268
cat forest garden fish trees chicken fiber arts wood heat greening the desert
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Lauren Ritz wrote:Interesting. In the last week I have seen comments about blowing things up, eating people, creating God, etc,



Did you report those comments to the moderators?

 
steward & author
Posts: 40837
Location: Left Coast Canada
14858
8
art trees books chicken cooking fiber arts
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Here are some threads that talk about "the line"

publishing standards
be nice
leaving room for other people's ideas
but but but but
hate in the name of love
you should do something
citation needed?
censorship
debate vs sharing
free speech
probation posts

I don't know anything about your specific post.  Are you saying you want someone to look into it?  
 
author and steward
Posts: 54304
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
hugelkultur trees chicken wofati bee woodworking
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
PC police: there are none here.

Where are the lines drawn:  wherever the fuck I want.


Why do some things fly and others don't?



I guess there are things that make sense to the staff, but don't make sense to you.   Oh well.

This does not obligate the staff to justify their choices to anyone.  


You mention a bunch of different things.   I frankly have no idea what their current status is.  I think some were removed and some were left for a bunch of different reasons.  


I think that if you want reasonable behavior and accountability, we can arrange that for you to the tune of about three million bucks.   Then we can hire and train people and require transparency and accountability.  

Instead, what we have is a bunch of untrained volunteers making the best of it.  So, it's gonna be ... interesting.  

And all of these volunteers would much rather be talking about permaculture rather than moderating.  




The good news is that for nearly all the things, somebody on staff shares with all the other staff "Hey, I wasn't sure what to do, so i removed this thing.  Do you think that was best?"   And then a dozen different staff members say "fuck if I know.  i guess is doesn't really matter either way."    


Over the decades there have been some forums that hired professionals to manage the forums.  And they made themselves accountable to the masses.   You might wonder where are they now?   They went out of business.   They found out that they could not afford even one person to professionally manage the site.  

As is, permies runs in the red.   I just pay the bills out of my own pocket.  I can't afford the transparency you are asking for.   So if you pony up the coin, I'll see what I can do.




 
Lauren Ritz
pollinator
Posts: 884
Location: Kansas
236
forest garden fungi bee medical herbs writing greening the desert
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Tyler Ludens wrote:

Lauren Ritz wrote:Interesting. In the last week I have seen comments about blowing things up, eating people, creating God, etc,



Did you report those comments to the moderators?

No, I didn't. I just rolled my eyes and continued reading. So it's mostly a matter of these comments actually being reported? That makes more sense. A lot of people have no sense of humor. I assumed it was gir-bot, since a message about gir-bot was attached to the purple moosage.
 
r ranson
steward & author
Posts: 40837
Location: Left Coast Canada
14858
8
art trees books chicken cooking fiber arts
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Lauren Ritz wrote:

Did you report those comments to the moderators?

No, I didn't. I just rolled my eyes and continued reading.



If you see something that you don't think meets publishing standards, press the report button and a moderator will have a look.  They may not always agree with you, but it will bring the issue to their attention and they will act accordingly.

A lot of people have no sense of humor.



Is a very good example of crossing the line.

 
Tyler Ludens
pollinator
Posts: 11853
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
1268
cat forest garden fish trees chicken fiber arts wood heat greening the desert
  • Likes 11
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
What one person finds hilarious another might find painful, also, humor often doesn't translate well in this medium, since we can't see the expression on the comedian's face.

 
Rusticator
Posts: 8963
Location: Missouri Ozarks
4801
6
personal care gear foraging hunting rabbit chicken cooking food preservation fiber arts medical herbs homestead
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Lauren, it's also entirely possible that those posts simply went unnoticed - or you simply noticed them, before we did. There are only so many mods, and there are *so many more* posts. We actually do have lives, offline, too - many of us working full time while trying to get/keep our own homesteads up and running. Many of us are also dealing with illness - our own, or people or animals we love. It's not an automatic thing the site does, all on its own. It's run by people, paid for by people ( and *very* few of those! Like... One or two?), and it's huge, and multifaceted.
 
steward
Posts: 13226
Location: Pacific Wet Coast
7669
duck books chicken cooking food preservation ungarbage
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I'm sure more experienced people will speak up, but here are some of my thoughts:
First off, all the moderators are volunteers, so if the first eyes on an "edge case" is someone who's sensitive to a particular subject, they are likely to request an edit. Personally, you did the right thing (write thing?) and edited your post. Some posters seem to take the request to edit really personally, or feel like they *really* screwed up, but much of what I see is simply volunteers trying hard to keep things friendly, positive, inclusive, and gentle.
Secondly, Mental Health is an area where there is a lot of discrimination. If you kill someone, or illegally blow something up, there's a good chance the police will get involved. In fact if you kill or harm an animal inhumanely, people will call the cops. Teasing people about a mental health issue, no matter how much one believes it's just joking, can really hurt but isn't the sort of thing the cops will touch. So as much as that line seems backwards, it is reality.
Thirdly, as Tyler Ludens just implied, the permies volunteers do rely on all members to use the "report" button to get staff attention. I am totally guilty of being quite oblivious to that whole side of permies for years (really, until I got this unexpected promotion to staff). If you ever read something that feels off, inappropriate, or just plain nasty, please hit the report button immediately. Part of the issue, is that if staff get to a questionable post right away, it's much easier to get a single person to fix a single post. Unfortunately, if we find it late, often several more people have commented related to that post, and things can get messy fast.
Fourthly, where the post is located matters. People will get away with things in the Cider Press, or the "jokes" threads that won't be tolerated in other threads. If the topic is serious, please treat it as such, and please report anything you see that's on the edge. Even if staff don't request an edit, another approach we use is to make sure that counter arguments/comments are posted really respectfully to model the sort of posts we want to see. I've said in the past that current North American society seems to expect people to absorb social skills by osmosis and there are people out there who really aren't good at that. We need to teach the underlying skills to help people figure out how to be part of a caring community, and I believe that permies is trying to do just that.
 
pollinator
Posts: 320
Location: Quebec, Canada
48
hugelkultur forest garden trees urban
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
If I want comedy, I can go to YouTube or the TV or other media. And some "comedy" is questionable if it is appropriate.  I am glad the moderators actually do moderate and remove posts or ask for an edit.

Thank you all volunteer moderators! Without you this forum would not be such a great place to ask questions and find answers related to permaculture.

 
Lauren Ritz
pollinator
Posts: 884
Location: Kansas
236
forest garden fungi bee medical herbs writing greening the desert
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

r ranson wrote:

I don't know anything about your specific post.  Are you saying you want someone to look into it?  

No. I don't need anyone to look into it, it's been taken care of. I'm just trying to figure out where the lines are drawn and I think that has been addressed.
gift
 
19 skiddable structures microdoc
will be released to subscribers in: soon!
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic