Is it a thing - a meter for an industrial appliance?

We might get a thing.
It's a big thing.
It takes 3 phases of electrical juice.
We need to put some wiring in to make it work.  And we want to add a meter to it to measure how much power it uses.  A meter that won't be unplugged.

Right now it is just in the feasibility study stage so we might not get the thing.  But i need some words to help get the estimates.

like mileage in a car.  We write down the number at the start of the day, at the end of the day, then subtract one from the other to see how much it is used.

Or like the electrical meter at the outside of the house that the guy has to fight the geese to read only just for this one breaker box worth of juice?

Is this something a normal human can buy and get an electrician to install when they wire up the machine?  Amazon's got nothing when I search.  

If so, what are the words I feed into the electrician so it isn't obvious I don't know what I'm talking about?  

Hopefully there will be someone who knows more than me on the topic. I have worked with 3-Phase for many years.   I would first call the electric company.  Then I would speak with the electrician.  I know such a device is possible … the problem is the cost.

The thing that worries me about dealing with tradespeople is that I need to have a certain level of understanding or I get the girl treatment.  If I know the words, then I can usually get what I need and an understanding of an acceptable price.  

This must exist because I've seen them on rental properties where there are several units in the same building and the owner of the property has a meter on each of the switch boxes.  

I'd call it a separate meter with it's own breakers.
I'd wait for other votes though, I may be wrong.

Hi Pearl,

Those were my thoughts. The potential problem I see is the cost.

Such things exist. Here is an example of a kilowatt hour meter that I think may be what you're looking for. It does 1-phase or 3-phase, 120v to 480v, up to 5000 amps. Cost is $170.00.

https://www.ekmmetering.com/products/ekm-omnimeter-i-v3

John F Dean wrote:Hi Pearl,

Those were my thoughts. The potential problem I see is the cost.

cost might not be an issue - But it might be.  

finding a budget is part of this 'might get a thing' thing.

to find the budget, I need the words.  

The electric company tends to treat me like I'm an idiot.  Also, ours is a co-op, which you'd think would be better, but there's really no sales incentive to help an individual customer.

I would try an electrical supply company, first. The salesperson at an electrical supply company.  Hopefully a salesperson on commission.  (I'm speaking as someone who worked on commission almost all my adult life...there tends to be motivation there, unless the job is crazy, crazy hard...) They want to figure out what you need. Even if they don't have it to sell, they may know who does, and what it's called. Or what the options are.

This is what I found online when I tried searching for the concept you mention:
Leviton 3 phase meter and power kit

It may be overkill, it may be not what you are looking for, I dunno.   But the salesperson at Gordon Supply might know...!

Yes, independent power meters exist.

When we installed a hot tub we put it on an independent meter. It's a bit convoluted, but our home is actually two properties. There is a chance that one may be let in the future, and the hot tub runs from that property. We needed to be able to meter it separately, in the case it was let out.

The electrician who did the tub install did it at the same time.

I had the impression that if we upgraded service to our garage for 3-phase that we'd have to have another meter on the pole just for that service, and there would be a separate line-item on our bill for the garage. I could totally be wrong -- this is coming out of a passing inquiry 2.5 years ago, but if I'm not, then you might not need to do anything.

r ranson wrote:If so, what are the words I feed into the electrician so it isn't obvious I don't know what I'm talking about?

"3 phase power meter"

R, if you are adding a new separate service of three-phase power, the whole installation is almost certainly going to include installing a "watt meter" so the utility (hydro) knows what to bill you, along with a circuit breaker panel, disconnect switch and wiring to the "appliance".

If, on the other hand, this device is powered by using either a phase converter (creates the 3rd phase) or a Variable Frequency Drive (a motor controller that creates the 3rd phase and also can adjust speed), the power would be taken from your existing service. Then you would need another "watt meter" on that ircuit.
It could be just the same type of meter that is at the service entrance to your home, but it would be "private", as in not accessed/controlled by the utility (hydro) for any purpose such as billing/locking out power to "the appliance". It would just be for your own edification, presumably for accounting purposes if powering  the "appliance" was a business expense. You would ask your electrician to add a watt-meter (and meter socket) to your job.

If there's other stuff that might also be a business expense, heat or lighting for the room the "appliance" is in, hot water, or other small single-phase tools/appliances; then you may want to have the watt-meter, then a "sub-panel" that would include circuits for lights, tools, and the "appliance". In the case of a new 3-phase service, these circuits would already be included in the metering.

Without knowing more about the device it's difficult to give good advice. If this is a smaller device connected to a Variable Frequency Drive (VFD) being powered by a single branch circuit off of an existing service, then a meter in the same vein as a Kil-A-Watt mentioned above would work. If this requires a separate 3 phase service to be run to the house, then that would require a meter installed by the power company or the electrician, depending on local laws. Not to mention how expensive it can get to run a new service from wherever the closest hookup is located to the point of use. Lots of copper and lots of digging gets expensive fast. Not that VFD's are cheap, but it is usually cheaper and more convenient to use one if your current service is capable of handling the extra load, which is another point that would need to be investigated.

If the load is a constant power draw, then you could have a run hours meter and multiply that by the power draw to measure power use. One mistake I see made all too often is calculating cost by reading what the electric bill says they charge per kilowatt/hour (kWh). That doesn't account for all of the taxes and other charges. The actual cost per kilowatt/hour is the entire bill paid divided by kilowatt/hours used.

In my climate, excess heat is a detriment most days of the year, and it may take 1.2 kW/h of cooling to remove 1kWh of heat from an indoor space, or require supplemental ventilation and/or shading in an outdoor space. In a colder climate the heat may be a benefit indoors, or may need protection from freezing outdoors. The initial setup and continuing costs may not be as simple as what a meter says depending on a variety of factors.

If you could find the motor label on a machine similar to what you are looking at, and share that along with a rough estimate of your time of usage per day/week/month, you could get an idea of which direction to go. Or at the very least have an understanding of what you need so you don't get talked into getting something that is neither insufficient for your needs, nor needlessly expensive.

Thank you everyone.
I've got enough to feed into the electrician to get decent-quality estimates.  

Going to send it off to the people who are spearheading this project and if anything comes from it, I'll let you know.