Newer Autos: Manufacturers Discouraging At-Home Repair?

My husband just spent 6 hours replacing six spark plugs in a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee (thankfully it's not ours).

Spark plugs...6 hours!!!

He says that would have been a half-hour job in an older model. It's a conspiracy, man! They must be trying to stop garage mechanics, and to force most car owners to go to dealerships for all of their concerns. This is very frustrating to me. Well, I intend to buy "old" vehicles forever, until my daughter is old enough to bike around town with me, and then maybe I will get rid of my vehicles grrrrrrrrr...

Well not that I disagree with your basic statement but I have changed the plugs on a 1997 F150 and it was pretty stoopid as well... Those people outta be ashamed!

My Dad says that, as the 1990s rolled into the 2000s, two of the manufacturers in the US were seriously proposing the 50,000 mile car. The idea is that they would build cars to last 50,000 miles, people would lease the cars, bring them to the dealerships for minor service, and then return the car and lease a new one once it reached 50,000 miles. The car would be crushed at that point.

In their defense, changing spark plugs is a rare occurrence these days. I just changed mine the other day after over 100,000 miles, and they probably could have gone another 100,000 (platinum). But I really do feel for people, especially who have the cars with the sideways engines. Some of the jobs I've seen other people do on them would definitely test me.

But to the point, I believe there has been a push to prevent people from working on their own vehicles (and houses, etc.). I believe the newest vehicles with their computers are basically still under the complete control of the manufacturer. The manufacturer can shut one down at any time. Say, if an error code popped up, or the vehicle reaches a certain age, it could be disabled for safety reasons, and could only be reset by a registered technician after repairs or inspection. I just saw a story from a guy and his friend who both had their Tesla's fast charging option shut down remotely. I'm not sure why, but I think it was due to age or that particular model\range having issues that made them decide to disable a bunch of them for safety. He said his friend paid the $12,000 to have his inspected and reinstated, but a month later received a message saying their policy had changed and his fast charging ability was once again disabled. I guess the sky's the limit. I think it's definitely a good idea for people to be aware of what they purchase, and to learn as much as possible about how to work on stuff, and how to look out for models that would be problematic.

Sometimes it's just dumb design decisions, other times it's the complexities introduced by the computer systems required to meet emissions guidelines. Efficiency and ease of repair do not seem to go hand in hand. My understanding is that if you want to be able to do basic service, there's certain models of car to avoid (i.e. luxury cars). If you want to be able to do major services on your own, you're stuck with mostly pre-2000 model years, before things started getting heavily computerized.

My friend was so dissatisfied with Tesla and their ability to control aspects of the car he deciede to cut the cord and sold it. He said it was like you never eally owned the car.
One of the newer featrures on Fords where you have to put automatic transmission fluid into the transmission through a service port from underneath the truck is just stupid. Reading an article where newer cars will have a factory installed remote kill switch makes me appreciate my classic VW van.

Sister talked Dad into buying a 2010 Subaru Forrester.   Aside from the sideways Boxer four engine.  the car seems solid, great in snow and plenty roomy.     Working on engine is different but doable.  Definitely not like 90s ,2000s Toyotas.  Thanks to Y*T*be I was able to change Timing belt successfully.  See MR Subaru ? for Tips.   Very happy I did the repair before the Parts distribution Issues of late.
Also hearing states not backing right to repair legislation is sending message to aftermarket suppliers that its time to dump products and move in another direction.   At least for not too old vehicles. it might pay to get afew extra parts like gaskets, filters and commom replacement parts  while you can.   If you can still buy gas I expect at least 15 more years before we are forced into electric cars.  

THis popped up as we are talking about it:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/ownership/john-deere-loses-battle-in-right-to-repair-war/ar-AA168S3E?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=059fc0bf0f9a4418936dda367db93064

indeed it is timely, looks like progress but time will tell.  Devil loves to hide in the details.

What is really awful about the whole "take every little thing to a pro" idea as far as car maintenance goes is that there are no more mechanics! Every shop in town is backed up with work and seeking to hire. I do all my own stunts in the garage but for a lot of people that's not the case. If I had more money it would upset me too because I hate working on cars and I would love to pay somebody else to do it.

My 21 year old daughter had to help 2 friends of hers in college to change their oil, hahaha. I didn't even  know she really knew how. "I'm not stupid, dad", hahaha.

I don't feel the manufacturers are discouraging home repair.

I feel the manufacturers are making it impossible to do home repairs as far back as 2001 when dear hubby quit trying to repair any vehicles.

In some cases the motor has to be pulled to do a simple repair.

When John Deere takes its case all the way to the Supreme Court on whether a farmer can repair their own tractor, I think the point has been made, with auto companies in the same boat.

I know a few years ago my local Caterpillar dealer said 90% of service work was warranted work. Realizing they were losing out, suddenly minor repairs need a certified Cat mechanic.

$3600 repair bill to have a Caterpillar mechanic spend 45 minutes overriding the computer is out of hand, but it’s proprietary software so you must pay and they know it.

But it’s everywhere

At work I broke a brush holder on a generator that is about the size of a post it note and
Made of plastic and a spring:

$750 per brush holder from Helwig

it is everywhere. and not any easier for the shops either- the scanners need to have upgrade packages all the time, which of course aren't free (although there are some nice side businesses among code people who know how to override them....
It seems like if some manufacturer can save half a cent doing something bizarre, like putting the last spark plug in the most impossible to reach place, they will (just had a car in the shop last week where a previous mechanic had broken it and left it in there broken, because just getting that last plug was too stinking complicated).  It's hard to explain to a client that labor for something apparently simple is going to be pricey because you need to take two hours just to get to it.

The other thing is that parts are hard to come by since the start of covid and supply chain breakdown, and never really got back to how it used to be. in the past we could always get them from the dealer (at a price, $$$$) but now even the dealers don't keep parts, it all is ordered from somewhere else and takes forever to arrive.

I can also corroborate problems hiring. we've needed to hire a mechanic for years, and no dice. Thank goodness in the pre-holiday rush time we got a nibble for a helper-apprentice and he's a smart kid and been working out well, otherwise I really don't know how we'd still be above water.

I am super stoked to see the John Deere thing, but I suspect modern tractors crossed the fixable-with-basic-tools-in-the-barn line a long time ago. As mentioned above, will be interesting to see the details.

Just got a Ping from Permies on this thread activity.  Surprised this Right to Repair issue has been on peoples radar here.   It seems the price we pay for squeezing every ounce of milage or clean emissions, is system complexity spiral thus necessitating computers and sensors and ever more complex software.

Since society  has no opt out provision in our social contract with regards to participation,  I practice  a concept of DE- volution.   Years of being plugged in to this matrix I discovered is no longer for me.
I learned to do without,  now  I am I blessed so much more since living a Permaculture life- I  just didn't have a name for it before.   I gotta say  it feels like freedom.  My heath has improved in both physical and Mental.  
I can tell you this: there is no going back to the slave matrix.

Howdy,

I am back to resurrecting my 1982 Subaru BRAT, 4x4, high/low diff., Front Wheel Drive(FWD).  I had taken it off the road permanantly.  Someone gave me a 1998 Subaru AWD wagon. It runs good, has a 170,000 miles and BAD HEAD GASKETS. To do anything on this engine it seems I would have to pull the engine.  Took it to some mechanics last summer, they wouldn't work on it, they didn't need the work. Said I should invest in new car. Am saving $$$ for a rebuilt long block.

Because I felt I was going to need a more reliable vehicle, I rebuilt the engine in the BRAT. Why the BRAT?  356,000 on original trans, 275,000 on original engine. I have worked on these horizontal type engines(VW).  The only thing about having an older, easier to work on vehicle, is the availability of parts. Some parts are NLA.
I have a collection of parts from vehicles that I have dismantled, transmissions,engines, diffs, windows, doors, etc. A problem with the BRAT, not many station wagon body parts interchange. The front fenders on mine are from a Subbie station wagon.  

I learned about auto mechanics from working on VW's and the How To Keep Your Vw Alive, a manual for complete idiots...1969.

If I had the time and thought it was worth while, I would try and make my 1959 morris minor a running vehicle, 948ci motor, 40+ mpg.

I think ford, chevy, dodge pickups, might still be a lot of parts and part interchange, different years, upgrades, etc might still be a good.  It may be hard to find a good mechanic to work on your older venicle.  I do like to fix things that don't work, and seem to be good at it....but....

I can't believe we haven't heard from Joylynn Hardesty yet!

Tereza Okava wrote:I am super stoked to see the John Deere thing, but I suspect modern tractors crossed the fixable-with-basic-tools-in-the-barn line a long time ago. As mentioned above, will be interesting to see the details.

It was a very complex case and really no clear cut winner.

Farmers said they bought the tractors and had a right to fix them, and John Deere said they sold the tractor, but retained the rights to the software of the computers on them. In the end the Supreme Court ruled that farmers do have a right to fix the tractors that they bought; however, John Deere is not compelled to sell computer diagnostic equipment to say, Brad's Tractor Repair Shop since they did not buy the tractor. (3rd party mechanic shops)

But John Deere still has a work around for that. Instead of having diagnostic equipment that will fix a slew of different tractors, it will only work with that ONE tractor model now, so if a farmer wants to fix their own equipment they can, if they buy the laptop that goes with that tractor. Buy another combine next year? Yep, buy another laptop so it can be worked on. And in 5 years when the diagnostic equipment is outdated and needs to be upgraded, sure there is a fee for that.

So yes, a farmer can fix their own tractors, but because of the high, unregulated cost of computer diagnostic equipment... and everything is run by circuit boards today... really the only real world legal way solution is to go to the John Deere dealership as it would cost less to have them do it, then to try and keep up with upgrades and equipment to diagnose it on the farm.

Of course, real-world legal way is different than just going on the now dark web and buying computer chips that negate the need for John Deere diagnostic and upgrades. Sadly, it has forced good honest law-abiding farmers to technically be criminals... just so they can fix their own tractors.

Jordan Holland wrote:I can't believe we haven't heard from Joylynn Hardesty yet!

Ahem. I agreed to be nice when i joined up. I don't wanna get kicked out of permies.