Impossible dream or realistic scenario?

Hi Permies,

Looking for some general advice from experienced builders and renovators. Or at least, slightly more experienced than me!

I have the opportunity to purchase my grandparent's old house. It's currently owned by a non family member, and is falling apart as no one lives in it any more. The house is in a tiny village in rural Australia, and was build in the 1920's - it's where my Dad grew up and we all have so many good memories of it.

It would cost me very little to buy, the cost would all be in the renovation. My question is, can two intelligent, enthusiastic, reasonably able bodied 40-somethings, with no building experience, renovate a falling down timber house? It's virtually impossible to get tradespeople out there, so we'd really be on our own.

We would not be looking to make any money out of this venture - it would purely be a lifestlye choice, a happy several years after so many in the 9-5 and raising a family grind.

Any comment or suggestion would be helpful - happy to answer any clarifying questions or share pictures of the house!

Thank you

Here in the US, we have large chain home improvement stores like Home Depot and Lowes.  I'll assume you have exactly the same kinds of stores in Australia?  People we call "day laborers" usually wait in the parking lots, ready to hire themselves out for part-time/full-time construction work.

For my own homestead, I hired such a worker, ferrying him up the mountain on a daily basis to get jobs done.  After getting comfortable with him, I gave him a key to the gate, and let him drive up on his own, paying him extra for the gasoline.

He helped me a lot with things like pouring concrete, and finishing the gypsum board walls with smooth plaster.  More technical parts, like structural design, I did myself, out of construction books.

More hands make the work go faster, and his expertise in skills that I lacked proved to be very valuable.  

If you are willing to do the driving, you most likely can find someone that can fill in the gaps of your own expertise.

Most certainly yes provided you are in decent health, willing to work hard and willing to learn.  Expect everything to take far longer than expected especially while you are learning.  Concentrate on roofs and foundations first and check for termites, dry rot etc elsewhere before deciding to go.  Bad foundation will make things really difficult.  Bad roof as first project is rough as everything up in the air takes longer and is more dangerous.

Ok, so I am no expert but i've worked on several home construction crews, and built my own bath house so speaking from some limited experience here ;)

The answer is yes! With the right mindset anything can be done. You want to do things right, but don't let that stop you from doing anything at all!

Like previously mentioned, the roof and the foundation are areas to concentrate on and try not to make mistakes -  other areas you can mostly get by with imperfections that won't have your house crumbling down, soaking wet, or blown away! (Re-enforced/double or triple stacked framing around corners, windows and doors etc. all help with structure, too)

Tools, you will need lots of tools and a way to store them if you don't already...and a trailer and/or pickup truck of some kind to haul materials and tools etc.

Hardware, you will need lots of screws and nails on hand, and a way to keep them organized and accessible for sanity.

Lastly, I'd put a lot of thought into the condition of the house before getting too far underway...a new structure using some of the dismantled parts of the old house might actually be easier and faster to pull off...built in good spirits of the old house but modernized for ergonomics and efficiency.

It will be a challenge for sure, but you will always regret it if you do not try.

You two have got this: you just lack the confidence and skills to know what I already know: it will be a labor of love, and a home built of love cannot fall.

Best wishes on your epic journey and keep us informed. And pictures: we love pictures.

Ps: I always forget to take pictures before I start. It is good to see where you started for prosperity but also motivation halfway through

In terms of “love”, I mean for your grandfather and his legacy and memory.

Thank you all very much for your wisdom!

I have just started reading the Scrounging book as well - the section on not being afraid of doing your own renovations is really speaking to me. That is such a good description - I have been taught that I can't build things or mend things. What happened to that little girl in her Dad's workshop hammering things together?

A lot more reading to do - which is fine since I love to learn new things, it makes my brain happy.

I'll share some photos when I'm free this afternoon. I'd especially like opinions on foundations. The original house was 4 bedrooms and a verandah (porch), this is common in that area of Australia as it gets very hot. The verandah was then enclosed to provide rooms for the growing family (9 children!) The original house is in decent condition, but the stumps under the verandah are crumbling in parts.

It's such a big project but I'm even dreaming about it....

Here are some of the photos to give you an idea.

That is in a lot better shape than what I assumed; good for you.

We know your pain though, we got a camp up on an isolated lake that requires flying in by float b
Plane, boating in, or an hour and a half up nasty logging roads to reach. Just getting materials there is a pain, not to mention trying to get a carpenter there. With at least one of two flag fires, they never show up when they say they will.

But what makes it tough is what makes it nice too. Not many people go to the ends of the earth and I’m okay with that!

We thought maybe a good place to start would be making Pop’s workshop and garage secure, to store our tools & supplies in. Not great pictures but I have a couple below.

We wouldn’t be able to move there for 3 or 4 years, but thought if we spent a weekend there each month, shoring up with urgent repairs, it might last until we’re there full time.

Steve, that location looks absolutely incredible!

Unless the roof is rotting in ways that are not apparent from the photos, that garage looks like an excellent starter project.

I almost hate to bring this up, but here in the US, this would be a necessary question - are there building codes and such that you have to deal with? If so, your first step is to find out what will be required of you.

And I agree with Glenn who thought the garage would be a good first effort. To have a small, sound, enclosed space to sleep in and/or keep your tools is a very useful thing!

Definitely worth bringing up Jacque. I worked the last 6 years in municipal government, so I'm well aware of the restrictions that will affect the work. I have made an appointment with a friend who works in that field who is going to walk me through what I need to know.

Rebecca, usually if you simply restore the building with no significant changes to the building you do not need permits.
I have worked on many homes like the one you show, they are great;
- tall ceilings help keep it cooler
- the established trees look good
- leaving tools on an isolated property may get stolen, it happens often.
- Foundations are the best place to start, I would not bother working on the garage because
 you can camp in the house while you are improving it.
- I use an A4 spiral backed book for planning and keeping notes etc.

I am happy to help over the internet from Bendigo in Victoria if you want an opinion.

I agree with John.  There is a problem with stealing tools and stores.  They even break into containers.
We finished off our house around us.  Work out which rooms you use most then fix them in the order you use them.  Somewhere to sit, eat and sleep are the most important.
Depending which LGA you are in will depend on just how dilligent they are.  Provided that you are not doing any engineering/ structural modifications, there should be no problems.
In a former life, I was a baggy arse nurse and if I can build a house, IMHO you should have no problems.  John will be a great asset.
From your photographs, everything is fixable. The roof space is easily fixed.  They often used fibro.  The newer fibro does not contain asbestos.  If you have an issue with the old fibro, check the back of it to see if there is a printed notice on it which says "does not contain asbestos". Otherwise use a spray bottle of water and undercoat 5:1 shake and spray.  It will dry and hold the fibro intact.  It is safer to leave it than try to remove it without expert help which will cost a fortune.  For safety, don't drill, cut or break without coating it and wearing a mask.
How do you eat an elephant?  One bite at a time - treat your project like an elephant and as John says write it down.
Best wishes for your project.

I saw the probable asbestos sheeting, the cover straps are often a give away.
But I thought I would wait until we knew what was happening.
Asbestos removal is not so bad nowadays , but I would recommend you get it taken away.
The sheets may have it , along with some flues and some hot water services also.
I had a friend die of the related disease and I have fibres which entered my lungs and went through them to a muscle in my back.
Its trapped in a cyst and is not an issue at all.
It is shocking stuff to leave around.

What a wonderful piece of family history - and Australian history, too!

I believe it's doable. That little girl who hammered nails in her dad's garage lives on! I am 62 and taking on a similarly big project, though I'm paying someone else to do the roof because it's a ridiculously complicated tiled one.

Looking at the house my main concern would be termite damage to the floor bearers and joists if it's in a warm enough area for them to be around.

And the tool theft problem if you aren't living on site - are their trustworthy neighbours who would keep an eye on things? Or could you even camp on site while you build?

It feels like doing what you can to save the old place could be the sort of thing you'll kick yourself for later if you don't give it a go. I hope it all works out well. Like everything, there will be times of frustration and tears and times when your heart sings at what you can achieve!

It will be interesting to see its original plan. I think the front view has been a veranda filled in, and the aluminium windows look a bit modern.
I am curious about its build date.
I am guessing 1910, but I see you have listed it as 1920's. The doors on reflection could be 20's.
The flat sheeting I believe has been added when a possible veranda was filled in.
Does the floor slope in that front covered in section?

Folks, I'm the other half of this team and while I'm industrious, I am not industrial.

I'm encouraged to read the comments that you have all made and grateful for the advice.

Couple of questions:

1. What are the tell tale signs of asbestos?
I'm inclined towards the outer sheets being asbestos, as I am guessing they were added in the 70s, (could be wrong) when asbestos was the great saviour.
I will be reading https://asbestosawareness.com.au/asbestos-for-tradies/identifying-asbestos/ for tips on identification.

2. Roof damage
Some of the tin sheets have lifted on the roof, would that be an indication that water has got in or that birds are nesting in the cavity?

My untrained eye, suggests that the general conditioin is pretty good. We are going to have a site visit in a couple of weeks, to get a better look.
But I appreciate you all giving your suggestions.

No stranger to hard work, but I'm English and can whinge for my country

John C Daley wrote:It will be interesting to see its original plan. I think the front view has been a veranda filled in, and the aluminium windows look a bit modern.
I am curious about its build date.
I am guessing 1910, but I see you have listed it as 1920's. The doors on reflection could be 20's.
The flat sheeting I believe has been added when a possible veranda was filled in.
Does the floor slope in that front covered in section?

You are right, John, it was originally four rooms and a verandah. The verandah was enclosed to make room for the growing family.
I will check with Dad about the build date, but I’m pretty sure the town wasn’t established until the railway went through in the 20’s.

I don’t remember the floor sloping, but it may have… I will check when we visit late this month. The photos were taken by my sister, I haven’t seen inside for years.

From memory asbestos sheets are very brittle and often had a textured finish on one side
looking like small squares 1/8  inch across.
They often had 1 1/2 inch cover straps at the joints with rounded edges.
I dont recall any markings, printing etc..

My parents started building our house in the late 1950s and put asbestos board on the wall between garage and house. Yes, about 1/8" thick, brittle, gray, smooth on one side and I think rough/screen pattern on the other. There are a few broken pieces of it (not crumbled) in the basement that I can check when I look at the house.

Hi again Permies,

After a lot of to-ing and fro-ing that went nowhere, the owners finally seem keen to sell. So we are off to look at the place on Saturday.

We will be paying a professional builder to go over it before we buy, just to make sure we really know what we are in for. But that won't be for a few weeks yet. In the meantime - what would you check for, or look for, if you were thinking of restoring an old house that hasn't been lived in for years?

Any comments are appreciated, no matter how basic... we are reasonably intelligent and able bodied, but totally inexperienced!

Thank you

As an experienced
person I would suggest you rely on the builders experience.
I have seen inspections where the 'builder' has been over the top on bad news.
I guess they may be trying to run up the cost hoping they get the job.
I suggest that you explain what your plans are and hope he sees the same vision.
By hearing you have no experience he may be overwhelmed, but if you explain the long term plan will have time to
learn the skills.
You may not need to use a plumber for internal plumbing, but you may need to use a roof plumber.
If you keep quite about all the anticipated work with authorities you have an easier path to tread.
In Victoria you would need a permit for restumping and demolition.
But in an isolated area you may be lucky.
You could pull the front panels on the veranda off, but dont take the whole veranda down to rebuild or repair it.
Just work in sections of replacement and you will be ok.
There are some basic procedures to save time, put all rubbish into a trailer rather than on the ground, it means you dont have to move it again.
Old timber may perhaps be cut to suit use as firewood.
Steel can be put aside for a scrap man to pickup if there is enough.
If you replace the roof, do a few sheets at a time and you may also be able to sell the iron if its useful.
But if its still good for roofing  use it and just improve insulation etc directly near the iron.

Thank you so much John, that’s really helpful! I know that we have pretty much everything to learn. I’ve always liked to learn new things though - so that’s helpful!

Hi folks,

We went out to walk through the house today and I tried to identify whether we had any asbestos in the walls.

Took some photos, would be keen for thoughts

Understanding this is not a definitive study, just an opinion, no accountability will lie with you  

Well, I bought the house.... let the adventure begin!

Of course the first quote I received from a builder was $71,000 for a new roof.... re-establishing my determination to do as much as we can ourselves!

Hi again Rebecca and Greg,
Congratulations on buying the house, be your home.  The Aussie dream is still alive in you guys.
Where are you with the fixing up and making it yours?

Love to see some photos

I too want to know how you're getting on, very cool old house.  Certainly y'all will have some up and down days restoring, but the spirit of generations past is alive in those walls....respect!

Last year I was merely lurking, now I am demanding.  Please keep us in your loop.
Rico