Very old, buried railroad ties all over my garden--how dangerous?

Last summer we moved into a suburban house built in 1921, and as I dig and plant I uncover an almost endless supply of ancient railroad ties around the edges of the property. They're quite degraded--some of them completely fall apart when I dig them out.

There's no telling who put them in, though given their condition I would expect it probably wasn't within the last 5 years. Many are buried under a couple of inches of soil, and I can't imagine what their purpose was. Others clearly form raised planting beds.

We've taken out the solid ones from the areas we're planting into, but I've just uncovered another deeply buried one where I was about to plant a chokecherry and some raspberries, and that means they probably run the length of the side of the house.

I'm at my wit's end with these things. They crumble when I try to remove them and they're making this project take weeks longer than expected. And most frustrating of all, despite many warnings about the toxicity of the creosote and copper-whatever that leaches into the soil and water, there doesn't seem to be much information about whether plants actually take up the contaminants and whether it would thus be present in their fruits.

Can anyone here advise me on how concerned I should be about these things, how hard I should be trying to remove them, and how comfortable I should be planting edible trees and shrubs near or, in some cases, even into them?

Have you done any soil testing? Since the ties are so degraded already, you'd probably get a good sense of what they my be leaching out. Then you can decide where to focus your labor most effectively.

That is a most unpleasant discovery. I understand your frustration.

It seems that someone went mad putting these in everywhere. A century ago, the hazards were not well understood.

Coal tar creosote is pretty nasty, made up of hundreds of chemicals. As you say, there doesn't seem to be much specific information on plant uptake in different scenarios. Given how widely it is used, I am surprised. It is clear, though, from the limited data, that both plants and animals can absorb some of these compounds. I will keep looking for hard data -- I have decorative landscaped beds from former owners made with ties, so I have a stake in this.

Personally, I would not put food producing plants in close proximity to railway ties, new or old. To my mind the risk is unacceptable.

Other people seem more casual about it though. There was an older discussion here: https://permies.com/t/28878/railroad-ties-Contaminated-soil

Sorry. Put pretty things where the ties are (or downhill from where they are), and food where they aren't. If you really need to use those contaminated spaces for food plants, plant several years of daikon radishes in that area first. The daikon deeply picks up pollution. Dispose of them appropriately. It's no guarantee to solve all the problem, but it will help.

I almost hate to post this link. It's frank and rather depressing. But knowledge is power. Forewarned is forearmed. That doesn't make your situation easier. Sorry.

https://wwwn.cdc.gov/TSP/PHS/PHS.aspx?phsid=64&toxid=18

In line with other recommendations, I would remove what I could of the old ties, including the soil around wood. Even then, I would not plant food in that area.

I once worked at a superfund site that was an old creosote plant. Everything, including the soil, was put in a lined landfill. Creosote also contains heavy metals, which are forever in the soil. I'm sorry that this happened to you, but as one person pointed out, people didn't recognize the dangers several decades ago.

Mercy Pergande wrote:Have you done any soil testing? Since the ties are so degraded already, you'd probably get a good sense of what they my be leaching out. Then you can decide where to focus your labor most effectively.

Thanks, Mercy. Soil testing is clearly needed asap.

Douglas Alpenstock wrote:I almost hate to post this link. It's frank and rather depressing. But knowledge is power. Forewarned is forearmed. That doesn't make your situation easier. Sorry.

https://wwwn.cdc.gov/TSP/PHS/PHS.aspx?phsid=64&toxid=18

Thanks so much for this, Douglas. It's very helpful. I was actually encouraged by the info that plants have only been found to take up 0.5% of the available creosote in the soil. But discouraged that maybe my addiction to being barefoot in the yard could be a bad idea. And definitely feeling I should go change out of my filthy work clothes asap, after an afternoon of wrestling with the soil and the buried ties. I'm sure I should not be sitting at the table in them.

Jim Fry wrote: The daikon deeply picks up pollution. Dispose of them appropriately. It's no guarantee to solve all the problem, but it will help.

Thanks for that tip, Jim! I also did discover online that a variety of oyster mushroom has been show to effectively remediate creosote. I need to look carefully at how that's done, though, and how deep into the soil it might reach. Root veg detox sounds perfect.

Unfortunately our property--including house and garage--is just 0.15 acre, so the plan was to pretty much use it all for food.

Jae Gruenke wrote:Unfortunately our property--including house and garage--is just 0.15 acre, so the plan was to pretty much use it all for food.

Given the situation, my approach would be to build raised beds and truck in good soil. I honestly can't think of a practical alternative.

To grow good, healthy food, you need healthy soil. Without good soil, I wouldn't eat what it grows.

When I was young, all the neighbors had gardens at the end of the block. It worked well. Everybody respected everyone else's space. Our yards weren't big enough, but that empty lot was. Many years later a friend and I planted gardens all over Cleveland. At the men's shelter, an inner-city elementary school, the free clinic, one just on empty land in the Flats, -for people living on the street to take and eat as they wished. You might think of doing something similar. Find some nearby space to grow a garden. Maybe get some neighbors to join you. Grow healthier food and build community.

Man, this subject isn't much fun. I have some old railroad ties as a short retaining wall next to one leg of our driveway.

Soil Science Society of America (https://www.soils.org/about-soils/contaminants/creosote/) wrote:Raised beds, steps, and retaining walls made from recycled railroad ties could mean creosote has leached into the surrounding soil. There is no soil test available at this time to measure the level of hydrocarbons. If you suspect soil or water may be contaminated with creosote, you should contact your state health department for guidance.

Jae, this is an unfortunate event.

If I were in this situation I would first get my soil tested from several locations.

I would have it tested where I plan to have a vegetable garden, then closer to the nearest railroad ties.

I am not sure I would try to remove the ties due to contaminating other areas of my yard.

I would then plant remediation plants such as sunflowers, alfalfa, etc.  If you would like some trees plant willows and poplar trees.  Mushrooms are also good for soil remediation.

Here are some threads that might be of interest to you or others:

https://permies.com/t/123928/Growing-Plants-builds-soil-health

https://permies.com/t/28878/railroad-ties-Contaminated-soil

https://permies.com/t/88885/Railroad-Ties

https://permies.com/t/9668/year-railroad-ties

Anne, Christopher, Jim, and Douglas, thanks for your comments! The thing is, the planting is basically done. When I wrote the post I was planting the last of my trees and shrubs. The magnitude of the railroad tie situation only gradually emerged through the planting process.

The good thing is that I have mostly just planted trees and shrubs in those areas. The vegetable garden is in the center of the backyard, while the ties were all around the edges. Not only that, I've actually planted the vegetables, herbs, and flowers into little hugelbeds (molehugels, I'm calling them) which are entirely composed of wood chips, compost, and soil I brought in. They're big enough the plant roots won't go into the ground. So I think that's probably an acceptable situation.

Also, there are no ties in the front yard, so I can grow root veg there.

Anne, I have looked at most of those other threads through the past few weeks. I don't agree with the cavalier attitude about the contaminants that predominated in one of them because, indeed, part of the point here is to grow healthy food.

I'm also a bit confused about testing--whether it's possible to test for the contaminants. I will have to do some research. It really is surprising that the EPA and the CDC say the ties are dangerous, don't use them, but don't seem to give any guidelines on removal and remediation for the zillions of homeowners who already have.

I'm just about to go out and plant daikon radishes all along the lines where the ties were--an easy first step since I already have a lot of daikon seeds. Coincidentally I'd already planted sunflowers along part of one of those lines. I'll definitely look into more remediation strategies, especially mycoremediation since I found a couple of studies that were very impressive.

Many thanks again to all of you.

I have a memory of reading about how (I believe) City Slicker Farm, an urban farm in Oakland CA on formerly industrial land, addressed soil remediation but I cannot find what I read anywhere. I was finally able to find something referencing them in a thorough way here: Soils for Urban Farms, Gardens, and Green spaces on the Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education  site. They outline the steps needed to remediate urban sites for gardening safely and it may have details that would be helpful in this case. They discuss construction waste being found buried in lots, for example.

Sometimes, legal ignorance is bliss.

Testing for contaminants can be a two-edged sword. There's no problem if your soil tests clean, but if something nasty turns up you are now legally aware that your property is contaminated. If you someday sell the property, you must disclose to a potential buyer that the soil is contaminated. In a worst case, the local government could find out, designate your property as a toxic site, and force you to do expensive remediation.