Low Cost Tractor

As crazy as inflation has been, it’s seems odd that I am bringing up a low cost tractor option as we near 2025, yet I am. When I sold my farm earlier this year my Kubota tractor went with it. Now at a new place with less acreage I wanted a machine to help me out, but did not need anything big. It just had to be capable, when I saw this mini-tracked sister I knew it would compliment my multi-use trailer.

In the end it cost me $7000 brand new and is a very versatile, convent, inexpensive and capable little machine. It’s small but so small it gets everywhere, has plenty of power, has a billion attachment options, and really makes big jobs easy because it can do so much.

In this configuration you can see I can dig, push, pull and lift, and with the trailer dig down, lift high and haul. It really is the ying and yang sort of arrangement. Its drawbacks are really only its sped. Since it is like a glorified zero-turn, it’s not going into the back forty fast.

After using a lot I would think for many homesteaders it is a low cost tractor to consider. I’ll never sell my machine that’s for sure.

What brand is it?

OK.  Looks like a Roda

Is it a stand behind or a remote control version?

Steve, I like the ingenuity!  

Did this used to be part of a log trailer?  This looks likes various types of tractor accessories that I have drooled over but never really been able to justify.  Maybe one day in retirement my body will not allow me to do the hard labor I did in my younger days so my wife will condone my getting more power equipment!  (I can only hope.)

Eric

Eric Hanson wrote:Steve, I like the ingenuity!  

Did this used to be part of a log trailer?  This looks likes various types of tractor accessories that I have drooled over but never really been able to justify.  Maybe one day in retirement my body will not allow me to do the hard labor I did in my younger days so my wife will condone my getting more power equipment!  (I can only hope.)

Eric

It is a Roda, but really just a Chinese tractor that may have any name attached to it. I was leery at first but it is so simple that I think it’s long lasting because everything is quick and easy to replace on it.

As for the log trailer part, yes it is @Eric Hanson

It was configured for a different pulling machine so to get the right weight transfer, I had to slide the dual axel trailer tires way forward. This put more weight in the tires and less on the mini skid steer. At first it would rear up pulling the heavily loaded trailer or going up steep hills.

It is a stand on tractor @Matt McSpadden which is what makes it suck and is great both. It sucks because there is no seat. It’s great because you can get on and off this thing so easy… and see everything. Like back dragging something smooth. You can see the whole bucket, but kick up a rock and just step off and pick it up. Step back on and go again.

The bucket is the same as a Toro Dingo so there is a ton of attachments for it. That means renting or buying them. Steep hillside to mow? Throw in a flail mower and knock it down. With tracks you got traction and a low center of mass. It can pick 800 pounds ( a full size round bale) and can dump into a roll off dumpster.

I have had it for several months now and never fails to impress me how fast big jobs get done. It is not a tractor, but for the money is a very capable machine.

Without a tractor I would have had to buy 3 point hitch implements anyway so it ended up being a decision where do I want a tractor and loader for $18,000 for a sub compact tractor, or pay $7000 for this and not spend as much money. Instead of 3 point hitch attachments I need to buy mini skid steer attachments but it’s a moot point when with either you have to buy them.

I also like that it fits inside my barn door which is only 48 inches wide. For homesteaders with animals who hate to shovel, this gets right inside buildings. You only get a wheel barrow full per bucket but it’s effortless to do. And so fast.

Steve,

I definitely think that for a whole lot of applications, smaller equipment is better.  I used to have a subcompact tractor and I could hardly believe just how powerful that machine was for its size.  Even though it topped at a whole 24 hp/18 PTO HP, it NEVER let me down.  I could move and lift with the loader, mow, rough cut, box blade, clear snow with a grader blade and all assortment of tasks that just never seemed to end.  It was the ultimate power wheelbarrow.  Its one downside for my purposes was that it was quite short for mowing 7' tall grass in the fall.  Make no mistake, it could mow almost anything.  But being so low, all the chaff and dust from the dry grass would fall onto the tractor and clog up the air filter, overheating the tractor multiple times per mow.  Also, as I was only using a 4' rough cutter, mowing my acreage took much of the day, after which I was worn out, exhausted and my allergies would typically consume me by the end, no matter how much I pre-treated (myself) for them.

In 2018 I sold my subcompact to my neighbor and bought a 37hp/31hp pto tractor with a 6' rotary cutter and it gets the mowing done a whole lot faster and does not overheat, largely because it sits so much higher.

Unfortunately I have to buy new implements and I had a nice collection that I sold to my neighbor that were good for that tractor but are really too small for my current one.  One by one I am buying them back.

But your approach is inventive and I applaud your inventive nature!  I have always thought that those little dingos are overpowered for their size--a good thing!  I also bet that they really sip the fuel--also a good thing.  I was always amazed at how my subcompact could mow my yard burning about 2/3 gallon of diesel while my previous riding mower would do the same burning about 1 gallon of gas!  I assume that your little loader has similar qualities.

Nice setup!

Eric

I am not sure on fuel consumption. It is a 15 HP GASOLINE engine so it is not so fuel efficient as a diesel.

One thing I do like though is that a power swap is easy. Since it is not coupled to anything mechanically, just the stack of hydraulic pumps, any engine can be substituted in this thing. Conceivably a diesel engine if it could fit within its allotted spot.

For years I have driven by a house in Western Maine where the person seemed to be like I am now, a few acres and with a need for something bigger than a lawnmower and snowblower, but not too big, and so he had a full sized skid steer. It was wheeled and old, but I thought, 'for him, that makes sense". I tried everything to get my zero-turn to pull and push my log trailer around, but it just could not do it well. When I saw this for sale, I thought, 'it can do all I want, and not cost $18,000 (the cost of a sub compact tractor). I would like to build some forks/clamp for it, as I think that would be handy for what I would do with it, and build a heavy mower for it too, but I can put $11,000 in implement costs and still be where I would be just for a subcompact tractor.

I did not really think much about it until the other day when I thought, 'this would be perfect for a lot of Permies people' because of its low cost. With its tracks, weight, and ability to get into tight spots like through a wide man-door, it probably is a low-cost option many Permie people never considered before. I am not sure where a tractor makes more sense... maybe at the 5 acre size? I say that because it travels slow. It is basically a zero-turn lawnmower at speed and handling wise. Building a WOFATI... it can dig inside and outside the building, and so small and light, drive onto the roof even. Cleaning stalls inside a barn... easy. Push snow out of a driveway, or lift lumber over head height... again easy. And it can maneuver in tight quarters because it is a zero-turn on steroids.  It doesn't move a lot of material at a time granted, but its so quick and snappy, it just gets a ton of work done. And there is no rework because you can see everything from that standing position.

Some cons though: on very steep ground you have to be careful. Like all zero-turns, it has no brakes other than easing back on the controls to put it in reverse.

Pulling with tracks: if you pull too much weight, or go up too steep of an incline, it will ride the tracks as all tracked tractors do, and rear up. Weight in the bucket, or transferring weight on the hitch, helps in keeping the front down. You can also attach the trailer to the bucket (push the trailer). It is like a zero-turn and thus goes as fast backward as forward.

It looks like it could get a lot done.
About how much does it weigh?
Could you haul it in a trailer suited for transporting a zero turn mower?

I look at it and think of hiring out for snow removal or grading land.
If it an move a wheelbarrow of wood chips at a time, it could be great for a small scale composting operation.

If there is a post hole auger attachment, it would make short work of most fencing or deck building jobs.

Here in Cincinnati we are over run with invasive honey suckle.
I bet you could clear a city lot in no time.

Yeah, this is a retirement toy of my dreams 😍

William Bronson wrote:It looks like it could get a lot done.
About how much does it weigh?
Could you haul it in a trailer suited for transporting a zero turn mower?

I look at it and think of hiring out for snow removal or grading land.
If it an move a wheelbarrow of wood chips at a time, it could be great for a small scale composting operation.

If there is a post hole auger attachment, it would make short work of most fencing or deck building jobs.

Here in Cincinnati we are over run with invasive honey suckle.
I bet you could clear a city lot in no time.

Yeah, this is a retirement toy of my dreams 😍

Oh heck yes! It looks wider in the photo but it is only 36 inches wide. It was hauled home on a $500 4 x 8 trailer. I think the weight is 1900 pounds.

It is designed to fit through a 3 ft gate because you can lift the bucket above the gate top and drive through. With a 3 foot man door you have to remove the bucket but it is a quick detach bucket. My barn door is 4 ft so I drive back and forth through it easily.

As for attachments, anything fits up to a point. Direct fit is mini skid steer attachments and I think there are 3000 different kinds. But you can also put on a mini skid attachment plate that takes big skid steer attachments. You must watch the implement weight and must be within spec on hydraulic flows but it’s a lot of options. Now rental companies are starting to stock implements so you don’t even have to buy them.

The limiting factor on these machines is its light weight. Put forks on the machine and quickly you realize its weight transfer that is an issue. It has plenty of traction, power and hydraulics.

Fortunately the weight transfer issue is easy to fix. Since the tracks can hold up a lot of weight, bolting on thick plates to the shroud sides can significantly make it a more capable machine. I do not do this because I use the dozer to pull my trailer. If I added rest weights to the machine, it would rest up on the front because of the extra rearward weight. But for others who need a loader primarily, it’s good idea.

Hey, I've looked at some Chinese farming things like this.  I'd like to ask you a few important questions though, if you're able to answer!  Was it from Alibaba or AliExpress?  What was the "listed" price (I know prices change).  Did you have to pay any shipping (if so, how much)?  Did they ship it to your house, or did you have to pick it up, or arrange any stateside transportation (and costs if any).  Did you have to fill out any customs paperwork?  I've thought about buying something similar, they had a good price, but had like 4k just in shipping, and not knowing what other potential costs could arise I held off.

No these mini skids exist all over the place. In a 15 minute drive home here in rural Maine I could buy 5 of them, some from dealers and others from private people.

I bought mine from the latter. He was a landscape contractor that got a deal on a bunch of them and kept his bigger machine and sold me the smaller one. Since he was 9 miles from my house he even delivered it.

My cost was $7000 even.

Steve,

I just re-read your earlier comment about a subcompact tractor costing $18000.  That is quite the princely sum!!  For context, when I bought my (new) JD 2305 subcompact back in 2005, the tractor itself was $10,000 even.  The loader was $2500, and the 4’ rough cutter was $900.  The total package, including some fees, was around $13,600 (fees were a one-time fee for an insurance policy).

I eventually sold that tractor plus a box blade, worlds cheapest grader blade, rear finish mower and a flail mower for $8000 to my neighbor who loves it as much as I did.  I replaced it with a new JD 2038R (largest 2series tractor, 37 hp gross, 30 hp PTO) with a loader (and largest capacity bucket) and 6’ Frontier 6’ rough cutter.  The tractor itself was $18,000, but it was a whole lot more tractor than the old JD 2305.  I lucked out in that my dealer found me a tractor without a mid-PTO (which I was certain came standard).  That missing mid-PTO saved me $6000 (meaning that the tractor should have cost $24,000!).  Off hand I don’t remember the exact price of the loader ($3500?) and the rough cutter came in at just a smidge under $2000.  The whole package came to just over $24,000 with tax.

My point is that if you were seeing subcompacts at $18,000, then there has been inflation indeed!  If I were buying now, I don’t know if I would buy JD again as their products have become terribly expensive.  Now, when I went about replacing my 2305, I was not dead-set on JD, but it just so happened that the JD 2038R hit all the right spots.  It had the power range I was looking for, it had the frame and tire (especially rear-tire) size I wanted) to smooth out the ride a bit over rough ground.  The hydro pedals were still a direct connection and not electronically controlled, so I could feel back pressure if the ground was soft, etc.  And generally it was a fairly simple tractor but still had the loader controls a part of the tractor and not a part of the loader, thus easing entry and exit.  And fortunately, I have no plans for a mid-PTO.

But with all of this said, the price of tractors is definitely going up.  I needed a tractor to mow a field, but that’s not apparently your need.  Therefore, your solution is not only affordable but downright elegant!  I will say that there are a few times when miss the smaller tractor when I am trying to get into a tight spot!  That’s when I call my neighbor!

All said, I like your setup, and if inflation is as bad as it sounds, you found a great way to beat it!

Eric

Eric Hanson wrote:Steve,

I just re-read your earlier comment about a subcompact tractor costing $18000.  That is quite the princely sum!!  For context, when I bought my (new) JD 2305 subcompact back in 2005, the tractor itself was $10,000 even.  The loader was $2500, and the 4’ rough cutter was $900.  The total package, including some fees, was around $13,600 (fees were a one-time fee for an insurance policy).

I eventually sold that tractor plus a box blade, worlds cheapest grader blade, rear finish mower and a flail mower for $8000 to my neighbor who loves it as much as I did.  I replaced it with a new JD 2038R (largest 2series tractor, 37 hp gross, 30 hp PTO) with a loader (and largest capacity bucket) and 6’ Frontier 6’ rough cutter.  The tractor itself was $18,000, but it was a whole lot more tractor than the old JD 2305.  I lucked out in that my dealer found me a tractor without a mid-PTO (which I was certain came standard).  That missing mid-PTO saved me $6000 (meaning that the tractor should have cost $24,000!).  Off hand I don’t remember the exact price of the loader ($3500?) and the rough cutter came in at just a smidge under $2000.  The whole package came to just over $24,000 with tax.

My point is that if you were seeing subcompacts at $18,000, then there has been inflation indeed!  If I were buying now, I don’t know if I would buy JD again as their products have become terribly expensive.  Now, when I went about replacing my 2305, I was not dead-set on JD, but it just so happened that the JD 2038R hit all the right spots.  It had the power range I was looking for, it had the frame and tire (especially rear-tire) size I wanted) to smooth out the ride a bit over rough ground.  The hydro pedals were still a direct connection and not electronically controlled, so I could feel back pressure if the ground was soft, etc.  And generally it was a fairly simple tractor but still had the loader controls a part of the tractor and not a part of the loader, thus easing entry and exit.  And fortunately, I have no plans for a mid-PTO.

But with all of this said, the price of tractors is definitely going up.  I needed a tractor to mow a field, but that’s not apparently your need.  Therefore, your solution is not only affordable but downright elegant!  I will say that there are a few times when miss the smaller tractor when I am trying to get into a tight spot!  That’s when I call my neighbor!

All said, I like your setup, and if inflation is as bad as it sounds, you found a great way to beat it!

Eric

I was basing $18,000 off the Kubota Website which shows BX2650 for $16,000 then added $2000 for the extras to make it a machine I would want. That is where I came up with the $18,000 for a subcompact tractor for full transparency.

The loader and pto for my machine are the same the only real advantage with a subcompact over my machine is a 3 point hitch. I am not sure how valuable that is when comparing a skid steer to a tractor?

Adding in my trailer which makes it a super versatile also makes it $18,000 more expensive. A total cost of $25,000.

That is the base cost of a BX Kubota with a loader backhoe combo. But I can do more than just scoop and dig, I can haul, dump, grade and move logs. So for the same money I can do more.

But starting out I am not sure a Permie needs a backhoe…. Nice but not required. A loader though, that saves a lot of work. Overall I can see mini skids replacing the subcompacts because they perform the same tasks for $11,000 less but can also clean out barns and stuff that the BX could never do. It’s just going to take people rethinking what a “tractor” is.

Steve,

If your purpose is loading, then it’s hard to beat your machine for the money.

In my case, the original purpose was mowing—actually bush hogging tall grass.  For me, the loader was just an obvious extra, but one so useful that I can’t imagine not having it.  Also, another critical purpose for my original tractor was clearing snow from our 500’ driveway.  The final straw for getting a subcompact was after getting 10” of wet, heavy snow and trying to clear it with a riding mower with a little blade attached.  I did make it work, but it took me 3 hours and I did more hand digging than blading!  I told my wife right then that we needed a better tractor before next winter (which ended up being almost completely snowless!).

My technique is to use a 3pt. Grader blade so that I can angle the snow off to a side.  I got the world’s cheapest blade but it did well for years.  

For my new tractor I made a serious upgrade.  I bought an Everything Attachment 7’ blade with an offset so that I can wing the snow well off the road.  Technically it is a light duty blade, but it is the heaviest lightweight blade I have ever seen.  For clearing snow, it is great!!

I tend to agree about the backhoe.  Certainly it would be nice to have, but just how many times have I needed a backhoe in the 20 years that I have lived at this home?  None!  And if I do need one, I will rent one and save myself the expense.  I also feel similarly about large wood chippers.  Making the backhoe worse is the subframe which can interfere with other implements (maybe not mine though).

Eric

Eric Hanson wrote:Steve,

If your purpose is loading, then it’s hard to beat your machine for the money.

In my case, the original purpose was mowing—actually bush hogging tall grass.  For me, the loader was just an obvious extra, but one so useful that I can’t imagine not having it.  Also, another critical purpose for my original tractor was clearing snow from our 500’ driveway.  The final straw for getting a subcompact was after getting 10” of wet, heavy snow and trying to clear it with a riding mower with a little blade attached.  I did make it work, but it took me 3 hours and I did more hand digging than blading!  I told my wife right then that we needed a better tractor before next winter (which ended up being almost completely snowless!).

My technique is to use a 3pt. Grader blade so that I can angle the snow off to a side.  I got the world’s cheapest blade but it did well for years.  

For my new tractor I made a serious upgrade.  I bought an Everything Attachment 7’ blade with an offset so that I can wing the snow well off the road.  Technically it is a light duty blade, but it is the heaviest lightweight blade I have ever seen.  For clearing snow, it is great!!

I tend to agree about the backhoe.  Certainly it would be nice to have, but just how many times have I needed a backhoe in the 20 years that I have lived at this home?  None!  And if I do need one, I will rent one and save myself the expense.  I also feel similarly about large wood chippers.  Making the backhoe worse is the subframe which can interfere with other implements (maybe not mine though).

Eric

It is hard to compare a skid steer with a tractor because if you buy a bushog, for the same price you can buy a hydraulic mower for a skid steer so it’s different but the same if that makes sense. The same with other attachments. And as everyone knows, they make thousands of skid steer attachments. In that way having a 3 point hitch does not really matter.


Loaders are a bit different but only because a skid steer has the hydraulics to power almost anything. A tractor lacks that feature. It can lift and curl, but not power a hydraulically driven motor.

The biggest issue is speed. There is no second gear on these skid steers. It zips along at zero turn speed, but if you got acres you are not getting to the back 40 anytime soon. That is its primary drawback.

I have yet to push snow with it but being a zero.turn with tracks basically, I think it will make quick work of it. We shall see?

Steve -

Is there any provision for a PTO to drive equipment?  Or, do you just use hydraulic remotes?

Just thinking about the availability of used implements which are shaft PTO drive, versus hydraulic drive.

I am (slowly) cobbling a vintage 1961 Cub Cadet (with the Farmall Cub transaxle - tough!) into a midget ag tractor.  I have added the mechanical PTO shaft (with weird spline, but I have an adapter sleeve), but still need to build a mechanical reverser box to fit between the clutch and the under drive creeper, so that the PTO turns the "right" way - for stuff where it matters, anyway.

But, I'm always interested in alternatives.

I do have an old Mead SpeedCat track loader, too, though it needs a little love, at the moment.

Kevin

Kevin Olson wrote:Steve -

Is there any provision for a PTO to drive equipment?  Or, do you just use hydraulic remotes?

Just thinking about the availability of used implements which are shaft PTO drive, versus hydraulic drive.

I am (slowly) cobbling a vintage 1961 Cub Cadet (with the Farmall Cub transaxle - tough!) into a midget ag tractor.  I have added the mechanical PTO shaft (with weird spline, but I have an adapter sleeve), but still need to build a mechanical reverser box to fit between the clutch and the under drive creeper, so that the PTO turns the "right" way - for stuff where it matters, anyway.

But, I'm always interested in alternatives.

I do have an old Mead SpeedCat track loader, too, though it needs a little love, at the moment.

Kevin

It just has hydraulic remotes with case drain return.

I suppose a hydraulic motor could power a pto implement though. They do make a quick hitch plate to 3 point hitch adapter so skid steers can pull 3 point hitch implements. With a hydraulic motor with pto spline it would work.

With these machines it can go as fast forward as reverse. You would just be looking backwards as you used the 3 point hitch equipment.

I used to have a John Deere 350d which was nice. I sold it though.

Steve Zoma wrote:I used to have a John Deere 350d which was nice. I sold it though.

My little Mead Speed Cat (I've also seen "SpeedCat" as one word) track loader is about 1800 pounds.  Not nearly as much machine as the JD crawler you had, and likely not as handy as your current rig.  On the other hand, it can fit a iot of places where you couldn't get a larger machine.  It's probably about the same size width wise as your little stand-on rig, but it has a seat. The track drive is entirely mechanical, though sometimes I've wished for hydrostatic drive; you need a delicate touch on the clutch in some circumstances, and a quick hand on the parking brake.  It has a three shank rear tool bar, with ripper points, a front loader, and a manually angle-able dozer blade.  On my list of improvements is a hitch receiver to drop into the  center ripper shank socket, and also a logging winch with spade that can pin into the rear tool bar.  As part of the winch attachment, I might add trunnions to pin on a set of telescoping shear legs (gin pole) that can be shared with my one ton truck, so I can also use it to set trusses and so forth.  I also should re-plumb the hydraulic valve body for remotes, and probably rehose the whole thing.  I should also rebore the bucket pivots (so, build a line boring rig driven by my Milwaukee two speed Hole Hog drill, to accomplish that!), and add a linkage to keep the bucket level, like some of the New Holland and Case skid steers have, when I raise the front loader arms.  And, I keep looking for an old Case Davis backhoe attachment, from one of the little hoe trenchers (I think D100 was the model?  There was also a bigger one, maybe D130?), which I could put on the back (maybe with some counterweight in the bucket).  The hitch receiver is most urgent of all these improvements - useful for finagling trailers into tight spots.

Eric Hanson wrote:

I tend to agree about the backhoe.  Certainly it would be nice to have, but just how many times have I needed a backhoe in the 20 years that I have lived at this home?  None!  And if I do need one, I will rent one and save myself the expense.  I also feel similarly about large wood chippers.  Making the backhoe worse is the subframe which can interfere with other implements (maybe not mine though).

Eric

Eric -

If, in a pinch, you do need a backhoe, you may be able to set up a hoe attachment on a sub-frame, with a truck axle under it, with hydraulic power supplied from remotes.

My brother has an old extend-a-hoe which is now unencumbered by a tractor, and another very large (for a trencher) Case trencher hoe (without the extendable stick feature) sans the original trencher.  In the past, he has chained these to the bucket of one or the other of his front loaders and run the hoes from the remotes.  This works better on his Case loader, which is a bigger machine (22,000 lbs, if I recall correctly).  His smaller Zettlemeier loader (about 12,000 lbs, I think) is a bit too light for this without some additional counterweight on the back.  But, the Zettelmeier is a lot more nimble in the woods, with the Mercedes UNIMOG rear axles (portal boxes and lockable diffs - with chains on it, it's a brute!).  It's a bit redneck to chain the hoes to a front bucket, but he has driven around town that way to do a job here or there.  To be slightly less redneck (but only slightly), we have schemed on putting a dually one ton truck or semitrailer axle under the extend-a-hoe.  In other words, make a giant economy version of the itty bitty tow-behind rental rigs.  The theory being that you'd leave the tongue pinned to the tow rig as counterbalance for the hoe (whether front or rear - working position might be different from transport), plant the stabilizers, and start digging.  If you had a hydraulic power pack/wet kit on a truck, you could use that for transport and power, too.  He has a bunch of mobile home frame channels and I-beams (also axles, wheels and tires); he has salvaged and disposed of a bunch in the last few years, and he and his friends are a thrifty bunch - he's currently converting a mobile home to hay storage and a sawmill shed - so not very much goes to waste.  The mobile home beams are probably a little light for the purpose, but could be sistered to double up, or locally plated to stiffen them, unless something better comes along.

Somewhat akin to Steve's multipurpose trailer, but my brother used a pair of such frame I-beams, with crossed lattice truss straps welded between them, to make a tower for a salvaged service crane which is mounted on his tri-axle formerly equipment trailer, now band saw mill trailer.  The cable winch on the crane can be used, with care, to snake stuff up close to the trailer, and the crane boom and rotator can be used to set a stem on the bunks, or even to turn a big cant, if it exceeds his abilities with the short-handled (3 or 4 feet long) cant hook I gave him.  Having the crane up high makes it easier to pull logs to the trailer; a skidding cone would also help.  The crane can also pick up the saw carriage from the rails and set it aside, so the trailer can be used, with stakes in the pockets, to haul logs. The bunks and rails stay in place (except for the track extension, which is only set up and leveled on an as-needed basis).  He does a lot of on-site work, and this has proven quite a handy rig for him.  The crane is set up with a cabled remote control, so he can watch what he's doing with the crane, right down in harm's way.  Radio remote control would be helpful at times, but also bring more opportunity for things to not work at the least opportune moment.  Much less of a Swiss Army Knife than Steve's trailer, however.

I am pretty sure I saw this hoe-on-an-axle trick in Farm Show magazine.  If not, it should be in there!

Kevin

Farm Show Magazine should be required reading for any Permie!!

Sorry I did not get back to you on your earlier post, I thought about it, then got busy replying to other things.

That being said, you point about clutches versus hydraulics is a prudent one, along with another advantage you might not have thought of. With hydraulic controls you not only get steering, you get counter-rotation steering. That means when pulling and you need to steer, you can get power to BOTH tracks instead of just one. One track is moving forward while you bring the other one backwards. That makes for a full traction turn.

I am not sure how good my mini-skid would be in the woods. It has very low ground clearance which would be a hindrance. Its narrow width could make it dart between stumps, but just the same, its no skidder. For me, I lack wooded acreage, and while I am thinking about buying another sawmill, it is only because a log yard is just across the road from me that I can. I can buy logs off them, pick them up, and then drive the half mile back here and saw the logs into lumber. Or, buy a load of logs off a truck and just move them onto my sawmill with my mini-skid.

Steve Zoma wrote:Farm Show Magazine should be required reading for any Permie!!

Sorry I did not get back to you on your earlier post, I thought about it, then got busy replying to other things.

That being said, you point about clutches versus hydraulics is a prudent one, along with another advantage you might not have thought of. With hydraulic controls you not only get steering, you get counter-rotation steering. That means when pulling and you need to steer, you can get power to BOTH tracks instead of just one. One track is moving forward while you bring the other one backwards. That makes for a full traction turn.

I am not sure how good my mini-skid would be in the woods. It has very low ground clearance which would be a hindrance. Its narrow width could make it dart between stumps, but just the same, its no skidder. For me, I lack wooded acreage, and while I am thinking about buying another sawmill, it is only because a log yard is just across the road from me that I can. I can buy logs off them, pick them up, and then drive the half mile back here and saw the logs into lumber. Or, buy a load of logs off a truck and just move them onto my sawmill with my mini-skid.

Steve -

No worries.

And I agree about Farm Show, though I think I only have anthologized volumes floating around - call it a "best of" compilation.  I don't read it enough, that's for sure.  There is a lot of very clever bush engineering in those pages.

The little SpeedCat crawler is even weirder than that.  In each transmission gear, the hand levers give a high-neutral-low via dog clutch to each track within that range.  In theory, shift-on-the-fly of the tracks is permissible, but I need to pull apart the transmission (or at least pop the cover).  I either have a slipping dog clutch or a linkage not properly adjusted (but I don't think it's that) or some other lost motion somewhere internally (shift fork/collar?), such that the low speed on one of the tracks tends to pop out of engagement under load.  Which is mostly when you want the low speed range.  For now, I clutch when shifting the track drives, which seems gentler and more sympathetic to its present condition; it also facilitates small adjustments in heading over my unskilled lever yanking, but necessitates grabbing the parking brake while in neutral (and a third arm, if you have one handy!) - whether trans or track drive neutral - if on a hill or being pushed/pulled by a load.  This all takes some getting used to, and I am far from a skilled operator.  But, it's mine, so that's worth something.  In the long run, my intention is to do some small scale excavating with it - bury a cistern, dig a large root/wine cellar, etc.  Maybe even build a wofati/semi-subterranean greenhouse thing-a-ma-bob!  If I can also use it with a winch for pulling out saw logs or firewood, or as a mobile base for a set of shear legs to lift frame bents, logs or trusses, so much the better.

There are mechanical track drives which do transfer drive torque from one track to the other while steering, but I've never actually played with them.  Triple differential steering has been commonly used on fast track laying vehicles (think, main battle tanks), but I don't think it's been implemented for tractors, where torque is comparatively more valuable than speed.  The Aktiv Sno-Trac used a belt variator to proportion torque and speed between the tracks (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKA1htPT2Pg), but that was also a fast track layer as a personnel carrier (using VW bus driveline components, no less!).  Fun fact: Aktiv also made a Grizzly twin track snowmobile, similar in layout to a SkiDoo Alpine or Valmont.  But, I digress.

There is also another variable speed fully reversible drive mechanism which uses a variator and two differential gears, but I've never seen that setup in the flesh.  It is discussed in Harold Clifford Town's "The Design and Construction of Machine Tools" (where he calls it a "double differential gear") as a variable speed reversible machine tool drive, but I think it could be used to make a mechanical shuttle shift or track drive (maybe zero turn mower drive, too) which is mechanical, and should thus be more efficient than a hydrostatic drive.  Each wheel/track would need one of these drives.  The variator belts could be steel, rather rubber, as well.  Again, I've never seen one in the flesh, though I don't think old H.C. would have steered me wrong, so I don't know how feasible this would be as a reversible mechanical track drive.

I haven't yet used my little crawler in the bush, either.  So far, it has been primarily relegated to snow removal - or at least, "move-al"!  I also pulled out a bunch of broken sidewalk chunks with it, and spread out a couple of loads of top soil to cover the gravel and cobbles which the flood dropped in our side yard.  On the plus side, the side yard is now much nearer the same level as the main yard, so it's much less likely that I'll get stuck down in there with the garden tractor when blading snow out of the driveway.

Sounds like you have an ideal neighbor in the log yard!

Thanks for doing me the honor of a reply.

Kevin

I might have to get a different snow pusher for this machine. I moved some snow, and while it worked, it was kind of tough. Because of the short track length it can transfer weight fore and aft very quickly, so setting your bucket one second it is digging in, and then the next it is lifted out of the snow. That makes it hard to get a good push of snow going.

A blade would be a lot easier to use because I would just set it down and push and the blade would float over the ground. It is a $1800 cost though.

If I can find a used tractor tire though, I can cut it in half and then bolt that to my bucket or a quick-change plate and push snow with that.

As for the different style of tracks, I should know them better being a huge trackophile that I am, but I really don't. I do have a book called "Endless Tracks in the Forest" and it has plenty of information on different styles of tracks.