What is this old pan? It's a stove-top oven!

My son has been finding more things in the rubble heap at the site he's working on.

This one was so battered he decided to leave it behind, but I've now given him strict instructions to rescue it. If only because I want a good look at it, especially on the inside, which he forgot to take photos of.

Also, it has a dragon on. Which can't be a coincidence, can it?

There seems to be some sort of window on the top. Or is it for putting a label in?

I wish he'd brought it home so I could get my hands on it and examine it properly...



Deeply indented underneath, with what looks like adjustable vents up near the lid.



And a Portuguese dragon!

Which I find hilariously serendipitous.



It was in the same rubble pile as the sieve thing he found a few days ago, which we think was for straining the whey off when making cheese. Could this pan be related?

I have a ceramic pot like that shape from asia.  It makes chicken soup.  2 legs whole, ginger, green onion.  Put it on top of a pot full of water like a steamer. 2 hours later, soup is in top pot.

It might be something more European. Reminds me of a combination of steamed pudding meets bunt cake.

Found a photo of mine



from here

Because it's tall, I like the evaporating soup theory. But it seems related to the old 'dry fry' pans - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dry+fry+pan&iar=images

There was a kind of still for distilling alcohol and essential oils in medieval spain that had a similar shape.  Not the same, but a family resemblance perhaps?

How intriguing.

Cannot wait to see inside the pot.

It looks like a version of the Chinese hot pot. The rim on the bottom could be for where it is intended to sit over another pot?

Ours has multiple layers, charcoal is burnt in the bottom layer and a pot of soup sits on the top with a lid.

We haven't used ours for ages, it tends to leave sooty marks on the ceiling. We used to sit the pot on a couple of bricks to prevent heat damage to our dining table.

Nowadays, most people use a portable gas burner at the table with a standard pot.

It looks like the big hollow bit at the bottom might be an actual hole, and that combined with the vents does suggest steam.

Austin suggested it might have been a way to steam ring shaped cakes, maybe like the traditional bolo rei. But I thought they were baked, not steamed.

I was thinking that maybe it is placed over a fire and the smoke goes into the central hole instead of all around.

Or, if the indent is not a hole, then it may be more likely that it is for trapping and concentrating heat.

I like the other idea about the evaporated soup, though, and the distillation. Maybe it would be useful for making essential oils?

Also the ring around the bottom does seem to suggest another pot underneath.

I've extracted a bit more information from my son...

body and lid are aluminium, lid has a broken glass viewing port. vent holes around the lip in both body and lid

He said the hollow bit goes

"right up to the lid" ... "there's a sort of iron mushroom thing inside that covers the opening in the top of the hole"

Which confirms that it IS a hole, not just a hollow.

I asked about how the lid fits

it's supposed to fit around a lip and rotate to allow more or less vent holes, but is too dinged up to move easily.
just pushes on. with some effort now

Also...

my first thought when I saw the shape of the underside was "bunt pan", but it's quite small for that

And some thoughts from a friend...

with that reentrancia in the bottom it surely was to make cakes...those which came out with a hole in the middle. But not bolo-rei because it is baked in a tray... I'm thinking of cooking or baking Pão de Ló. I think I remember that Dragão logo in cooking utensílios...

I haven't managed to find any references to pão de ló being steamed though. My friend is, hopefully, going to ask his mother in the morning.

Looks a lot like a stovetop oven. The vents at the junction of the lid and the oven body appear to be adjustable for letting out heat after the heat and gasses rise to the dome then move to exit the oven. This movement is a convection heating system.
In summer's extreme heat, I bake bread in a ringed oven like this. It uses very little fuel to bake a loaf.

Here's a link to the Wonder Pot, a version from Israel. The Wikipedia entry provides some history on other versions but not Burra's interesting Portuguese find.

I agree with Amy - this pot reminds me of a Petromax or similar camp stove oven:
https://www.amazon.com/Petromax-camp-oven-Camping-oven/dp/B0BNNPFKVG

These would possibly have been handy for people who just had a cooktop (hob), rather than a full oven, even if they weren't camping.  My wife and I sometimes watch "House Hunters International" and "Cheap Irish Houses" and so forth on the Home and Garden Television Channel.  I am repeatedly surprised at how many kitchens have no oven at all.

An alternative to dry baking, as with the Petromax type of setup, is steam baking.  The Bakepacker was the classic brand, but they now seem to be defunct.  However, here's a discussion of the Bakepacker:
https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/homemade-bakepacker.10036/
I haven't ever cobbled one up, though it too is "on the list".  Two pots that can nest together, with a grid or trivet arrangement to keep the bottoms separated when nested - that's about it for a DIY version.

I've only ever used the Coleman style stove top oven (another dry baking setup), which collapse flat for travel (canoe or car camping).

On edit, I have attached the Bakepacker cookbook, excavated from my hoard.  No help with Burra's pot (possibly oven), but a good reference for anyone who might need it in the future.

It looks like a steamed pudding mold, like these Random Commercial Steamed Pudding Mold link

edit: corrected spelling, you'd think I'd check it before hitting submit. :D

Thanks for all the input everyone.

I looked at the wikipedia page for the wonder pot and forwarded the link to my son.

He said that that this photo from the page looks very close to it.



And that this one, of the metal disc that lifts the pot off the fire, reducing and focusing the flame, "looks like the metal mushroom I was failing to describe"



So it does seem to be a Portuguese version of a wonder pot, or stove-top oven.

I rummaged around online and found an Italian version on amazon that looks very similar.



Which seems to be called a Fornetto, so we might have a name for the Dragon when he arrives, if my son is at the same place today and remembers to pick it up for me...

I also found another version called the Omnia, which has some cute little videos to demonstrate their use, and also an online recipe book.

And downloadable version here

Woohoo - Austin had to deliver stuff to that job site today and picked it up for me, though it will be hours before they come home.

And he sent photos.  The poor thing really is quite battered...

This is the 'mushroom thing' that was inside it, I guess for safe-keeping so it didn't get lost.



And it fits perfectly into the groove at the bottom of the pan!



View of the inside, with disc and lid in the background.



The lid is designed so that you can adjust the size of the vents by turning it, though apparently it's a bit to dented to allow that to happen freely.

I bet we can fix it up a bit though...



Poor thing looks like it had a brick wall demolished on top of it.



My plushy dragons are singing in anticipation of the new arrival.

Just one Fornetto,
Bring it to me.
A magic oven
To cook our tea.

You must excuse them. They try to keep out of the main threads, but sometimes they manage to work their way in...

I watched quite a few youtube videos of the Omnia being tested yesterday, and came to the conclusion that most people start off burning everything.

I thought that the gas burners they use look pretty fierce to me, and don't seem to come with a little simmering ring, which are pretty standard in Portugal. Looking at the pattern of the way things got burned, it seemed to me that there was far too much heat on the bottom and not enough at the top  so stuff was burning at the bottom but not cooking through properly. Some were also burning on the outside, but I think only when the size of the gas ring was rather excessive in my opinion.

I also thought that these stove-top ovens were designed for fuel economy and were likely used over a physically much smaller flame.

Some of the testers discovered that if you used a 'flame tamer' over the flame, stuff wouldn't burn but, as they also stop the heat rising freely up the central vent, the food takes even longer than normal to cook.

Commenters on the videos seemed split between 'stuff always burns in them' and 'you need a smaller flame!'

The conclusion I came to was that I needed to do my first experiment over a low flame, and the simmering ring on my gas stove would be about right.

Cute rosy mug for scale because I didn't want to burn my bananas...



The ring will turn down more than that, and also the main rings will burn with just the middle bit lit, which I think is even smaller. This seemed a good place to start though.

After a lot of thought, I decided that the first test would involve chouriço. That stuff is already cooked during processing, and is fine if eaten a bit burned or a bit 'raw' so it should be a fairly safe test that yields edible results even if we mess the cooking up first time.

Here's what it looks like cooked on a traditional chouriço cooker.



Austin started setting the oven up. He put the funnel thing in place, that sends the heat up the centre of the oven. Then stuck his hand over to see how effective it was at sending the heat straight up.

It's VERY effective! In fact, it works very much like the heat riser of a rocket mass heater.

And now his hand is all hurty. Or at least 'a little bit ouchy' in his own words.

Sigh...

Anyway, he prepped the chouriço and popped one in each side of the cooker. No grease, just as it was, to see what happened. Then put it over the heat riser and put the lid on, with vents open.

Within a couple of minutes, steam was coming out of the vents and sizzly noises were happening. When he opened it to have a look, it was starting to stick and overcook at the bottom, even on the simmering ring, so he flipped the chouriço over and turned the ring down.

At which point they looked like this...



Cooking time in all was about the same as for any other way of cooking, just using a lot less fuel.

And this is how the meal looked. Not the healthiest in the world, but a classic mix of Portuguese and Brit, with a tin of baked beans and corn bread to go with the chouriço.



I think a future experiment will involve attempting to cook over a tea-light, if I can figure out how to set it up so the candle gets proper air-flow else the heat-riser funnel thing will block the air supply and put it out. I have no idea if it would work, but it would be fun to find out! Sort of a 'how low can you go' test. I'm also quite keen to test it on the rocket mass heater cook-top, but that's not likely to be lit for months now.

Now, what to attempt to cook in it next...

Burra asks,

Now, what to attempt to cook in it next...

Got BEETS?
Out here, summer's around the corner and the beets have to come out before they get woody.
The Omnia stove-top oven is my favorite way to roast the roots. It really is incredibly effective and doesn't heat up the house. Wash the beets, toss in a little olive oil (just enough to shine the beets) and salt. Fill the ring with various sizes, and keep the heat at medium. Start removing the smallest (about 30 min at high altitude). Add beets as the first ones become tender. Remove beets as they become tender and natural sugars caramelize. Good luck Burra!

Amy Gardener wrote:Got BEETS?

No beets unfortunately - the garden was sadly neglected over the winter and I'm only just getting it back on track.

I did, however, decide to try my hand at my interpretation of an American classic - biscuits and gravy!



I had some chopped up pork scraps in the freezer, left over from rendering the lard out of a bag of trimmings from the butcher. And I had a load of greens in the garden which I thought would turn it into a better, more complete meal. And Himself was out working today so I figured I'd have a play. This is the first real baking I've done in the little stove-top oven and I was quite pleased with it. Though the gas blew out at one point and I forgot to take the lid off when I re-lit it, and the vents were shut, so the whole lid blew off rather spectacularly and unexpectedly.

It was my first ever experience of biscuits and gravy (it took me a while for my UK-centric brain to accept that those things are 'biscuits' and that white stuff is 'gravy'...) and I have to admit it was rather awesome and economical comfort food.

Oh, and the experiment to see if you could cook over a tea-light was a total fail. There's simply not enough 'ooomph' in the little candle flame and it goes out the moment you put the lid on. Kills the draught or something.

I thought I'd try another experiment with the little dragon-stove-top-cooker, this time for enough 'biscuits' to share, and trying out a silicone liner I modified from a silicone air-fryer basket. Which I am hoping will make for ease of washing up and also not need so much grease and flour to make it non-stick.

As a possibly rather bold experiment, I didn't grease or flour the liner at all, just to see what happens.



One and a half cups of self-raising flour, a bit of lard, and enough milk to make a dough. I'm hoping this will make six murican-style biscuits. Which means there should be some left over for Himself tonight.



I used a wide, flat bottomed bowl to mix it in so I can knead it a bit and shape it in the same bowl I mix it in. Which will hopefully contain the mess and reduce washing up.

I'm a great believer in reducing the washing up...



Six not-very-well shaped biscuity roll things seem to fit in there quite nicely.



I put it on the lowest flame and am basically leaving it to see how long it takes.

I did twiddle the lid a bit so it vented, too. Just in case the little dragon inside pulls a dutch-oven and makes the lid fly off again.



I did have to turn the flame up a bit because it tends to blow out when you're not looking. Which completely destroyed my plan of timing how long they take to cook, but they ended up looking like this.



I pulled one out and flipped it over so you can see underneath.

Just threatening to catch a bit, presumably because I turned the gas up half way through to stop it blowing out.

It really needs a low flame!

Also, absolutely no sticking, so no extra grease, no flouring, and very easy to clean up afterwards!



Oh nom!

They're cooked through beautifully.

I think we can declare the little dragon-cooker to be a success!

One last biscuits-and-gravy experiment because I really wanted to time it, and it was also time to expose Austin to the full experience.

Here's a little youtube video of typical UK highschool boys experiencing it for the first time, and getting their heads around how  familiar words like 'biscuit' and 'gravy' can mean something so very different to what they expect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzdbFnv4yWQ

And here's the combined effort...



I made the biscuits, and we kept a much closer eye on the burner this time. We used a medium setting on the simmering ring, which seemed to work better than the lowest setting on a bigger ring, though it would still attempt to go out if we took the lid off to check what was happening and then put it back on again. It took almost exactly 30 mins to cook them.

Himself made the gravy and prepped the green beans, and it all turned out beautifully.

Now, what to cook in it next...

Burra Maluca wrote:One last biscuits-and-gravy experiment because I really wanted to time it, and it was also time to expose Austin to the full experience...
Himself made the gravy and prepped the green beans, and it all turned out beautifully.

Now, what to cook in it next...

Burra -

Thanks for sharing your experiments with us.  Looks like you have it pretty well sorted.

It seems I may need to track down one of these little stove top ovens for use at our lake property.  Even our camper (caravan) only has a cook top (hob), but no oven (other than a small microwave, that is - but no proper baking oven).  So, it might be a very useful addition indeed to the full panoply, I think.

Kevin

I’m thinking of trying making one out of clay, a ceramic version, if I ever get to it… I’m guessing it might be even better insulated?

Kevin Olson wrote:Thanks for sharing your experiments with us.  Looks like you have it pretty well sorted.

It seems I may need to track down one of these little stove top ovens for use at our lake property.  Even our camper (caravan) only has a cook top (hob), but no oven (other than a small microwave, that is - but no proper baking oven).  So, it might be a very useful addition indeed to the full panoply, I think.

There are a couple more experiments I want to try yet. Lasagna or moussaka or chicken-pot-pie type recipes, which are moist at the bottom, would be fun. Also roast veggies. I thought about a fruit cobbler, but I'm not happy about the acid fruit in contact with the aluminium, and I haven't yet sourced a proper silicone liner that will fit and the one I improvised will allow it to escape and come into contact with the aluminium which I'm not keen on.

And then next winter I get to do a load more experiments using it on the cast iron cook-top on the rocket mass heater.

Maieshe Ljin wrote:I’m thinking of trying making one out of clay, a ceramic version, if I ever get to it… I’m guessing it might be even better insulated?

Now that's another experiment I could try!

My initial thoughts though are that it might raise the temperature too much and it might be necessary to turn the gas flame down to compensate. And there seems to be a critical point where if the flame is too low it goes out as it needs enough oomph to power through the whole system else the draught stops.

That might not be a problem on the rocket mass heater cook-top though. But then, when that is running there is always a good, hot place to cook so it might not be necessary. I need to let some ideas bumble around for a while...