How do you make a hay box?

As I, jet again, are tucking my porridge into my bed, I am wondering how you make a hay box? And why not?
Like my mother before me, I use my bed and bedding to slow cook things like porridge and stews. I have a slow cooker, but I find that they don’t work as well and my bed does. A slow cooker still has the heating located in the bottom, and it will burn if you aren’t careful. This never happens when I cook in my bed instead. All of this had me wondering if anyone on permies has instructions on how to make a modern hay box?
Hay is out, since i have allergies. I have thought about styrofoam but I am not sure it will keep it hot long enough and what about temperature? Will the how pots melt it?
Some of these might be stupid questions, but I still don’t know. Right now I am thinking about maybe getting a large box, and fill it with old duvets and towels. What do you think?
I found this design online, but I am not sure that would work for me. https://www.instructables.com/hay-box-cooker/
In the article they use paper, which might work.
So, let brain storm.

I've used shredded paper like they did in the Instructable you linked to. It seemed to work fine as insulation, though it was messy and dusty.  In other threads here about Haybox cookers, people have mentioned using very much like what you use now -- blankets, towels, comforters -- in a box. A good use for old textiles that are too worn for their original purpose.

This looooong thread is the main one I remember on the topic: https://permies.com/t/8127/kitchen/Haybox-Cooking-Thermal-Cooker-Box

When i will make one, i will probably be inspired by models i've seen here on a french news website. They are mostly textile, so easier to store, and most of them are two parts. One bottom with twine to close it on the top and a top part covering most of it too. Some models include recycled used chips bags to keep more infrared inside.

But half of the year, i simply let the food in cooking woodstove in my ironcast cookware and letting the fire die. it easily stay warm and cooking for 3-4 hours

Jane Mulberry wrote:I've used shredded paper like they did in the Instructable you linked to. It seemed to work fine as insulation, though it was messy and dusty.  In other threads here about Haybox cookers, people have mentioned using very much like what you use now -- blankets, towels, comforters -- in a box. A good use for old textiles that are too worn for their original purpose.

This looooong thread is the main one I remember on the topic: https://permies.com/t/8127/kitchen/Haybox-Cooking-Thermal-Cooker-Box

Yeah, I saw that thread right after I posted LOL. My problem with some designs, are just that they aren’t very practical. I want to be able to clean it if necessary.
We have a paper shredder though, so using that as insulation is cheap and easy. We also get a lot of styrofoam boxes, so I am going to try and see if one of those will work.

Raphaël Blais wrote:When i will make one, i will probably be inspired by models i've seen here on a french news website. They are mostly textile, so easier to store, and most of them are two parts. One bottom with twine to close it on the top and a top part covering most of it too. Some models include recycled used chips bags to keep more infrared inside.

But half of the year, i simply let the food in cooking woodstove in my ironcast cookware and letting the fire die. it easily stay warm and cooking for 3-4 hours

I wish I had a wood stove. I have a gas stove, which is great, but it does have its limitations. I just find that using the isolation method of cooking, give me a better texture and flavor in my cooking,
Btw, the French website looks great, but my French isn’t good enough to read it.

This thread has an illustration of what a haybox cooker is:





From Here

This is a PEP BB (Badge Bit) for making a haybox cooker:

https://permies.com/wiki/168402/haybox-cooker-PEA-BB-dimensional




This thread is an experiment with one:


https://permies.com/t/150474/kitchen/Experiment-haybox-pots

Ulla, I stopped using the paper, though it worked well, because it was just so messy. Not helped by the thermophilic yoghurt I had in the box getting overexcited and bubbling out everywhere!

Lesson learned - only half fill my yoghurt jars, and look for some way to contain the shredded paper. Cloth bags loosely packed with it should work well and give good insulation.

Thank you Anne Miller, that’s what I was looking for.

Jane Mulberry wrote:Ulla, I stopped using the paper, though it worked well, because it was just so messy. Not helped by the thermophilic yoghurt I had in the box getting overexcited and bubbling out everywhere!

Lesson learned - only half fill my yoghurt jars, and look for some way to contain the shredded paper. Cloth bags loosely packed with it should work well and give good insulation.

Thank you.  That’s why I have been reluctant to use paper for it. I think I am going to try and make the one Anne Miller showed, it doesn’t look too complicated to make. We have plenty of rags so maybe using that for insulation. I also have an old duvet, and was thinking that I might try that too.

Ulla, thanks, I am glad I was of some help.

Anne Miller wrote:Ulla, thanks, I am glad I was of some help.

That’s what I love about permies. You can always figure things out here, because people genuinely want to help others. Anyway, I think I know what to do now. I am going to make a box and then use old pillows and duvets as insulation. That way they are put to good use.

You've already ruled out hay, so I'm sure my entire solution is right out, but I just filled a cardboard box with hay and leaves and pine needles and I bury a hot lidded pot in that mess of organics, close the box, and cover it with a larger plastic tub to keep rain off. It's on the deck right outside my kitchen door. The only trick is getting all the leaf-litter off the lid before opening the pot and letting some of it in.

Christopher Weeks wrote:You've already ruled out hay, so I'm sure my entire solution is right out, but I just filled a cardboard box with hay and leaves and pine needles and I bury a hot lidded pot in that mess of organics, close the box, and cover it with a larger plastic tub to keep rain off. It's on the deck right outside my kitchen door. The only trick is getting all the leaf-litter off the lid before opening the pot and letting some of it in.

Good idea, but it won’t work here. Critters would destroy it, or move into it the first night. I am also allergic to gras pollen, which is why I ruled out hay LOL. Don’t want to sneeze my way through cooking.
That said, it’s still a good way to do it, since it free and easy to do.

I like that last one in Anne's post, too. The old house I am buying has lots of old blankets and quilts with holes or stains that will be ideal insulation for something similar.

Jane Mulberry wrote:I like that last one in Anne's post, too. The old house I am buying has lots of old blankets and quilts with holes or stains that will be ideal insulation for something similar.

I like that one the best too. I thought more about making a box, and then it hit me. A hemp laundry basked insulated with old pillows and blankets. We have so many of those, and we use wool filling. I am going to try this first, and see if that will work out. If it doesn’t then I will go ahead and make the box.
As it is, I can barely keep up with the chores, which is one of the reasons I wanted it in the first place. I have a gas stove, and I don’t feel comfortable leaving the kitchen when it’s on, which is why I want to do it. It will also save on gas, so another positive.

Raphaël Blais wrote:When i will make one, i will probably be inspired by models i've seen here on a french news website. They are mostly textile, so easier to store, and most of them are two parts. One bottom with twine to close it on the top and a top part covering most of it too. Some models include recycled used chips bags to keep more infrared inside.

Those are so pretty I can see them being used for taking dishes to a potluck to keep them warm while traveling.

Anne Miller wrote:

Raphaël Blais wrote:When i will make one, i will probably be inspired by models i've seen here on a french news website. They are mostly textile, so easier to store, and most of them are two parts. One bottom with twine to close it on the top and a top part covering most of it too. Some models include recycled used chips bags to keep more infrared inside.

Those are so pretty I can see them being used for taking dishes to a potluck to keep them warm while traveling.

A few years ago, I purchased a contraption like the blue/pink ones, minus the pretty ribbons.  If I recall correctly, me buying one supplied one to someone in a developing country. It lives at the garden and is quite nice for dishes that should heat for a longer time at a lower temperature - I bring the food  to temperature in the rocket stove then move it to a smaller pot and into the tuffet* and much later cook the speedily-cooked parts in the stove.

*it reminds me of Little Miss Muffet who sat on her tuffet…

This is where I am now. I found a large laundry hamper cheap  on Amazon. I combined that with an old duvet, pillow and a sheet and put it in the laundry hamper. I am now cooking soup in it, and I feel no heat on the top or sides, so it looks like it’s insulated.
I think this will work. At least until I figure something else out. I also like that I was able to recycle my old bedding, by putting them to new use. I did have to cut the pillow in two, to make it fit, but it wasn’t a problem.

What an excellent idea.  Did that work for you Ulla? I live with someone that wants to keep blankets just in case it is freezing outside and our heat goes off and they want it to save us or so they say.  But this way I'll store them in a box that will double as a cheap cooking device. Being ignorant; could I use cotton blankets for this- "Cotton will catch fire and burn at around 410 degrees Fahrenheit (210 Celsius). Cotton will spontaneously combust (auto-ignition temperature) around 764 degrees Fahrenheit (407 Celsius), which means that it will catch fire and burn somewhat easily" (https://firefighterinsider.com/temperature-cotton-burn/)?  I assume this means I'll have no issue but I don't want to set anything on fire.  

I have no real idea though I feel with the haybox cooker there is no real chance of fire.

The cooker cooks using insulation to keep what is in the "pot" or cooking vessel warm.  Much like a slow cooker without any power or flame.

The boiling point of water is  99.97 °C (211.9 °F) according to Mr. Google.

I doubt that the contents of the cooker ever get hotter than 250 unless someone takes a pan out of a very hot oven and then puts it into the haybox.

Suzy said, "This contraption, a thermal cooker, is super efficient. I read about it in the latest permaculture magazine (No. 67) and you basically cook using the inner pan (which is pretty big), for 10 minutes after boiling, and then stick it in the insulative container for another 1-6 hours. It can save up to 80% of the fuel normally used.

https://permies.com/t/8127/Haybox-Cooking-Thermal-Cooker-Box#74031

So my question for folks is what is the hottest pot you have put into the haybox cooker?

Benjamin Abby wrote:What an excellent idea.  Did that work for you Ulla? I live with someone that wants to keep blankets just in case it is freezing outside and our heat goes off and they want it to save us or so they say.  But this way I'll store them in a box that will double as a cheap cooking device. Being ignorant; could I use cotton blankets for this- "Cotton will catch fire and burn at around 410 degrees Fahrenheit (210 Celsius). Cotton will spontaneously combust (auto-ignition temperature) around 764 degrees Fahrenheit (407 Celsius), which means that it will catch fire and burn somewhat easily" (https://firefighterinsider.com/temperature-cotton-burn/)?  I assume this means I'll have no issue but I don't want to set anything on fire.  

I don’t think that it will ever get so hot that it starts to burn. Do I have some heat marks on the sheet I use to cover the duvet with? Yes, but it’s very little. If you are worried, you can use a burn resistant fabric instead. I believe that some use wool.
It works really well, and I use it a lot, especially now that the slow cook setting on my instapot has stopped working. Now I just get things started on the stove, and then move it to the hay box to finish cooking.

Finally got the chance to try for first meal like this which was a soup.  It worked fine with a box and lots of blankets.  I'll have to experiment more but good.  Now I need to make a solar oven.

Here's my attempt, made mostly out of freebies and recycled materials.

Years ago we were given a load of old bee-keeping equipment from a friend who was giving up his bees. It included this brood-box made out of some weird sort of expanded cement stuff, so it's very durable and weatherproof but also relatively light and insulated. So it seemed perfect for a diy haybox! It's also just the right size for my biggest cast iron dutch oven, which is in need of a bit of TLC...



We decided that it should live just outside the door and made a little platform for it to sit on using some bricks and the top of a little table that was in the house when we bought it. We scrounged some left-over bits of roof insulation from my son to cut to shape to line the box with.



A straight edge (courtesy a spirit level), a measuring tape and my little veggie knife were my main tools. I'm not the most technical sort of person but even I could manage this job.



Two bits cut to size and fitted...



And two more sides, checking that my biggest pan is still going to fit!



There's still plenty of headroom, so I contemplated cutting a piece to fit at the bottom, but as I had plenty of blue insulation in big pieces I decided to just use a big piece to cover the entire platform and stand the box on top.

Now I need something to wrap around the pans. I had recently bought a bundle of rather odd sized vintage sheets and cut them to make normal single bed sized sheets, so I had some useful sized offcuts. And I'd also snapped up the offer of a free box of polystyrene beads from an old bean bag that someone was desperate to get rid of as they kept escaping and making a terrific mess. I still have to give her the box back, but I'm under orders not to return it until every single polystyrene bead is used up.

Let's see if I can persuade them off my hands and into the little bags I made from the sheet offcuts...



OK, so they seem to not stick to glass as frantically as they do to hands and plastic bags, so this method of persuading the things into the cute little bags seemed to work.



There, some finished bags. With beads safely contained. Except for those escaped ones all over my bed...



And here's the box ready to go, with bags fitted in place, and a couple of folded bits of blanket ready to place over the pan. There is also a bit of insulation in the hive lid, which I didn't photograph. And you can see the big sheet of blue insulation under the whole set up.



Today we're using a small, rather battered enamelled dutch oven to cook up a pork tongue. We brought it all to a boil and simmered for a minute to get everything up to temperature, then popped it in the haybox.



Then tucked it in nice and snug with the bits of folded blankie.



Then popped the insulated lid on and left it to stew for a few hours.



I've been very pleased with the haybox. Very reliable and easy to use, in all weather conditions. I intend to paint the box itself one day and set it up in the outside kitchen, when we build it, so I transfer things directly from the gas stove to box without messing about going through doors, or having any surplus heat in the house during the summer.