Question for builders out there on budgeting for a build

New to this forum, in the process of planning a strawbale home. Close to the finish line and I'm sooooooo ready to be done with the theoretical stuff and get down to business! For folks who've built a permitted strawbale or other natural home, how much of your overall cost would you say your plans and pre-construction related stuff went? I'm finding that to get the plans the way I want them has been a real struggle with the draftsperson I'm working with and has exceeded my initial assumption of what it would cost. Hoping I can make up for the difference by sourcing local materials and rallying my community to help build this thing (some, not so much for the frame).

I have run into various rules for construction estimates. The most cynical say to calculate as accurately as you can .. then double that amount.  

I have not done a strawbale.  I can tell you that the interior of my stick build house cost 30,000.00.

That did include buying tools, lumber, drywall, nails, etc.

Patrick, it sounds like you are dealing with somebody the knows nothing about strawbale.
And maybe you are requesting a ;complex; design as well.
There is data available but I cannot find it at the moment.
Can you switch?
From Google;
In a new build, plans and pre-construction costs typically account for a small but important percentage of the overall cost.
These costs can range from 1% to 3% of the total build price.
This includes fees for architects, engineers, and other professionals involved in the design and planning stages, as well as costs for permits and pre-construction site work.

Hi Patrick,
I observed preconstruction (plan/permit/engineering) costs to run between 2-5% of a project (in AZ), but with lots of variability! A lot will depend on how much engineering your jurisdiction requires, I had a Flood department add 5mos and $8k to a project before the dirt was scratched. If your jurisdiction has adopted the International Residential Code appendix S (for strawbale), and if your plan conforms to code, and if your site is "normal", life should not be much worse than a conventional house as far as preconstruction costs. However, there is no upper limit to how much time and money you can spend tweaking plans, so beware of that trap!
Best of luck!
Mark

Thanks for folks replies. I forgot to come back and check on this as I'm intermittently on this website. Oh, boy if I'm even at 5% for design costs of overall budget I may be in trouble. Except of course I intend to workshop/work party lots of the strawbale and plaster parts, and the finish work will mostly be on my own shoulders. I don't know that I'd call the design complex, but definitely custom!

Yes thanks for that comment Mark. I have observed how planning can drag out and become a money sink. Already more has gone into than I'd care for and I haven't even had engineering look at it or submitted permit. I'm in a holding pattern right now assessing budget and trying wrap my head around what that might realistically look like. In Mendocino county we do have a relaxed permitting option called Class K- that basically gets you out of a lot of hassle. It's gotten watered down over the years, but it still keeps you from having to put in a sprinkler system in the house which the county planner has told me could cost 20K alone. In theory you can submit plans you did yourself (I'm not confident in my skills enough to do that) without engineering. But the builder I'm planning to work with says more often than not with Class K they still want to see engineering. The design I've come up with with the designer is a 2 story, timberframe with strawbale walls roughly 1800 sq ft (outside footprint). Mostly square with the SE corner at a 45 to face the winter solstice sun.

My question is, are those estimates of 2-5% based on having contractors do all the work? My plan is to have the builder who specialized in timber frame do the foundation, frame, and roof. I'll help out where I can but most of that will be on him. I'll probably contract out the electrical as I'm terrible at that, and most or some of the plumbing. But I've enough experience I think to take charge from there on the strawbale walls, plastering, and finish work. I'm in touch with CASBA (Cal Strawbale Assoc) about doing workshops, and other natural builders. Plan for lots of work parties and the like. I really look forward to doing a lot of the interior wood work and finish as that's where my skill set comes into play more. Do you think with that in mind I might be able to offset labor costs enough where the high expense of designing/permitting will be larger in proportion to the build?

Mark Miner wrote:Hi Patrick,
I observed preconstruction (plan/permit/engineering) costs to run between 2-5% of a project (in AZ), but with lots of variability! A lot will depend on how much engineering your jurisdiction requires, I had a Flood department add 5mos and $8k to a project before the dirt was scratched. If your jurisdiction has adopted the International Residential Code appendix S (for strawbale), and if your plan conforms to code, and if your site is "normal", life should not be much worse than a conventional house as far as preconstruction costs. However, there is no upper limit to how much time and money you can spend tweaking plans, so beware of that trap!
Best of luck!
Mark

To me, the biggest part of budgeting for a build would be to add up the cost of materials.

Holding workshops would not come into play unless there is a cost added to the workshops such as food, advertising, etc.

Anne Miller wrote:To me, the biggest part of budgeting for a build would be to add up the cost of materials.

Holding workshops would not come into play unless there is a cost added to the workshops such as food, advertising, etc.

My understanding is that labor is actually the biggest factor in a buildings cost. Although with tarriff wars and a failing economy materials could start to compete with that.

Patrick Graeme wrote:My question is, are those estimates of 2-5% based on having contractors do all the work?

Yes, that affects the denominator of the fraction. If you manage to volunteer lots of labor (that does a good job you don't have to repeat), or do a great deal yourself at a low opportunity cost, expect the percentage of preconstruction costs to go up. Knowing that you are in CA, and that you expect to have engineered plans for a custom design, I would encourage you to have between $10k-25k ready to deal with preconstruction. That's a big range, and a bit of a guess, but I know very few engineers who would do a custom 2-story timberframe/straw house engineered plan for less than $10k (I wouldn't, as I have a guess at how much of my time that would take up having done similar work for masonry-type designs). Since you want 2 stories, IRC Appendix S is less helpful, it would only apply to single story, and requires engineering for two levels.

To your other point about labor/materials for "a building", I think that may be an older impression. I would have agreed with it ca. 1990-2000. I observed labor/materials being roughly evenly split up to 2020. Post-inflation, materials dominate. This is a general observation based on conventional construction, and using a natural building approach can tilt the balance towards labor again, but not necessarily because you have drastically reduced material costs, just that you need a lot more labor.

Anyhow, if you are in a place where you can save and sock away money towards the project, that's a good thing to do until you are well-provided to go in with enough to get to dry-in at a minimum. Your straw does not want to be partially complete during a rainy season, so you really want to have enough funds to get quickly to the roof and exterior plaster before you could consider slowing down and doing things yourself more leisurely. You've got a pretty big wall area (guessing ~3600sqft), so getting exterior plaster up on that will take a while (and a lot of scaffolding), and you are tall enough that no roof eaves will shield the bales adequately from rain. You've said you worked with a designer, and have a plan you like, but please do consider that the costs of construction are determined in this phase. Single-level strawbale can save you a lot  of money and headache by allowing you to use IRC App. S (not an engineer), and will make your exterior wall work so much easier - a 2-3ft work platform is so much easier to work on than scaffolding. I've been a builder, and I am an engineer, and I will tell you that neither of those roles (or the designer) has the job of telling you "this might be an expensive idea" - all of those roles just charge more for complexity, and are typically happy to do so. Thus, as I have no personal stake in your project at all, I suggest you think hard about what you really need, and if you can live with a smaller or simpler plan.

It sounds like a cool project, and I wish you the best! I do encourage a careful counting of the cost, and starting the project with a "hope for best, plan for worst" approach.

Best,
Mark

Mark Miner wrote:I would encourage you to have between $10k-25k ready to deal with preconstruction. That's a big range, and a bit of a guess, but I know very few engineers who would do a custom 2-story timberframe/straw house engineered plan for less than $10k (I wouldn't, as I have a guess at how much of my time that would take up having done similar work for masonry-type designs). Since you want 2 stories, IRC Appendix S is less helpful, it would only apply to single story, and requires engineering for two levels.

I really tried to do this research ahead of time, but apparently not well enough. I'm already at over 25K for the design alone. Engineering looking at another 10-12K, permitting maybe 6-10 from what I've heard. The design cost got out of control in part because the designer, who doesn't listen very well designed out some straw bale walls on the building without consulting with me, so we had to go back and re design certain parts. I've been very unhappy with him. I was also given the impression by a well known natural builder in our area that going two story would save money in the long run because foundation and roof are the most expensive parts. Even though I was hesitant about that because of the complication of having to put up scaffolding.

So IDK, feeling pretty discouraged about this. Just want to put up a yurt and get to doing the permaculture bits I actually know how to do.

I am sorry to hear that the design has been an ordeal. $25k for design is not something I would consider reasonable for a single family home, at least for a result that isn't a stupendous piece of architecture.

As far as roof and foundation, they certainly are significant costs, and your builder likely knows local conditions well, so I won't argue from a distance. That approach is why CA subdivision houses increasingly approximate Borg cubes. Lots depends on your climate, your preferences, etc., but saving the engineering fees can pay for fair bit of metal roof or concrete. Anyway, I don't know what you're balancing, family size, lot size, etc., but I'd encourage you to be pointed in your questions, and slow to pay for work that you don't want or need. You can ask the builder "what's the per square foot cost for foundations? roofs? walls?" and do some rough math yourself.

There's nothing wrong with yurts, but they are a pretty short-term solution, and don't leave you with any equity once they are worn out.  Again, it all depends on what you need, want, and can afford. I hate to say it, but the successful natural building people I know of are either tiny-house DIY'ers (frequently people in the trades or otherwise personally skilled, this is the set that tends to be represented on Permies) or... pretty wealthy.

Take it one day at a time, don't get too discouraged, but be careful about throwing good money after bad.

Best,
Mark

Mark Miner wrote:I am sorry to hear that the design has been an ordeal. $25k for design is not something I would consider reasonable for a single family home, at least for a result that isn't a stupendous piece of architecture.

As far as roof and foundation, they certainly are significant costs, and your builder likely knows local conditions well, so I won't argue from a distance. That approach is why CA subdivision houses increasingly approximate Borg cubes. Lots depends on your climate, your preferences, etc., but saving the engineering fees can pay for fair bit of metal roof or concrete. Anyway, I don't know what you're balancing, family size, lot size, etc., but I'd encourage you to be pointed in your questions, and slow to pay for work that you don't want or need. You can ask the builder "what's the per square foot cost for foundations? roofs? walls?" and do some rough math yourself.

Useful feedback. Yeah, that's why I've pulled the reigns on doing any more consulting work. The design really got away from me unfortunately.

Patrick,

I recommend the following:
-have your own detailed plans so you will exactly know what to build; I like having everything in 3D AutoCAD file so I can easily check the volumes (and then calculate weights), areas, check if objects are not intersecting with each other, etc
-plans for the bureaucrats - as basic as possible
-structural engineering plans if required

I have walked away from designers on two jobs that just did not listen to instructions.
One even defended their actions by saying they expected licence to create what they wanted.

I keep a very tight rein on them now and I now the industry well, so dont feel too bad about what you have been through.
Research across many areas and with different people is essential, we all have personal preferences.
Today I try and give a balanced view to anybody.

I have just re- read all the posts.
I have to say Marks comment

Thus, as I have no personal stake in your project at all, I suggest you think hard about what you really need, and if you can live with a smaller or simpler plan.

is spot on!
Priceless even.

I have seen too many people get ruined financially because of lack of research and big egos.

Patrick Graeme wrote:

Anne Miller wrote:To me, the biggest part of budgeting for a build would be to add up the cost of materials.

Holding workshops would not come into play unless there is a cost added to the workshops such as food, advertising, etc.

My understanding is that labor is actually the biggest factor in a buildings cost. Although with tarriff wars and a failing economy materials could start to compete with that.

We spent $30,000 to finish the inside of our house.

How much are you wanting to spend all total?

Yes, in today's market labor is high but we could not find anyone who wanted our money.

If you are planning to hold workshops how much are you willing to pay those folks?