organic lawn care for the cheap and lazy

I just read the original article and I was impressed with the detail that went into it.

The cheap and lazy way seemed pretty challenging.

I am new to this site and just wanted to say hello. I have a lawn care company so I like to learn all I can about subjects that are related to my work.

Great forum here. I hope I can contribute. You guys are way ahead of me right now though 

Is it possible for the cheap and lazy to rid their yard of bamboo? (without putting their 7 year old to work )

I read the original article and all 9 pages of this thread. I have certainly been working harder and not smarter on my lawn for years but I am "awake". 

I have a small lawn which backs up to woods very near my home. Going completely away from a water hog grass lawn is not an option within in my sub or with my wife, but I plan to take a much more strategic approach to my lawn care, and I am 100% convinced cutting high and going organic is the way to go.

I was away from my lawn for a year, but this spring I will be back. It is a slight powdering of soil over clay, so I have some work to do but I can be patient...

A couple of questions/ideas:

1) The more I read about the worm compounds/holes the more intrigued I am. I have seen some positive comments - Any definitive results?

2) I understand that worms should aerate for me, but I am not there yet. I was thinking I would use a manual aerator in small sections, and possibly use that section to "sort/
turn" compost created in a rubber can. My thought is that anything I can't easily get back up likely deserves a home in my lawn and will naturally fill in some of the plugged holes.

3) I have struggled with moles in the past, but I am banking on Milky spore to help clean up my grub problem and I think this should make the difference. Does milky spore harm worms?

Open to suggestions and ideas. Thank you!

I'm totally confused about the whole concept. Why would anyone want to "care for a lawn"
I thought permaculture was all about eradicating lawn 

I'm surounded by otherwise nice neighbors who have "tractor envy". One got a tractor so he could mow an acre in an hour. the next year the other neighbor got a larger tractor so he could mow 2 acres in an hour. The first one then traded in his old tractor for larger on to be able to mow 5 acres in an hour. repeat. they also have to be the one with the freshest cut lawn. if they mowed yesterday, and I bring out my mower today for a little trimming, they will be back out later today or tomorrow for sure.

if your looking for me in my neighborhood, all you need to say is "I'm looking for the guy who doesn't mow his grass"
most of my grass has been converted to forest garden beds with grass paths in between

duane wrote:if your looking for me in my neighborhood, all you need to say is "I'm looking for the guy who doesn't mow his grass"
most of my grass has been converted to forest garden beds with grass paths in between

I'm so glad to live in Germany for that reason. My neighbors and I have some lawn but they all love their perennial flower gardens. They don't look at you like your mad when you tell them you had a great currant harvest this year. They say "Well, I had some nice gooseberries", haha.

A good source of lawn care info is appropedia. This article ( http://www.appropedia.org/Lawn_care ) talks about different factors in how sustainable a healthy lawn is (like height of grass, use of greywater or rainwater, etc)

Been passing it along, here's a response from today
"Thank you! Thank you! This is exactly the info I was looking for but didn't get around to yet!"

Hi Paul,  Thanks for the great post. Does anyone have any good, organic ideas for getting rid of moss and encouraging grass? I have a client with some shadier areas (northwest Washington=very wet!) who wants lawn, not moss.

I live in north central Texas.  Most everyone here has either Burmuada or St Augustine grass in their yards.  The local radio talk show guys point out that tests show at least the Burmuada grasses do best when mowed shorter. (I think 1-1/2" is optimal most of the year)

Paul's article makes no mention of regional differences.  Does it need a disclaimer or an amendment to warn readers that some of his suggestions would be different if you live in a different climate or have different grass?  Most of the people I recommend this information to would not consider this obvious.

One of the sites I posted this on got a lot of great feedback and many thanks from people saying they had just been looking for such info. One lady on that site has an eco store and is going to post a link on her website! She loved the article Paul and she's really excited about passing it along to all her customers. Yay!

I have been organic for 3 years now and it has been a huge struggle.  The dandelions keep popping up in the spring and the creeping charlies is just over taking my yard.  What can I do to get rid of the horrible "Creeping Charlie"

I use corn gluten in the spring and fall and then I use Ringer fertilizer in the spring and fall.  We are mowing our lawn on number 3-4 so it is kept high but I do have to admit that my husband was mowing very low for sometime before I noticed it.  We were bagging our clipping but last year started to leave them on the ground.  Any other advice you can give me as my chemical neighbors keep giving me greif!!!

Karen,  I started using compost and organics last spring. Organic fertilizer, kelp, compost tea, alfalfa pellets, milky spore and a very small amount of green sand. Corn gluten was used this past fall.  I mowed high all last year, left the clippings on the lawn, and scatter our used coffee grounds on the lawn.  We also dug worm pits.  This year I don't think 5 dandelions have popped up.  I've heard it can take 3 years for corn gluten to be effective.

You could try vinegar or hot water on them.  Pulling them out would work toward lowering the count too.

Personally, I don't dislike dandelions anymore and leave whatever is in the lawn there.  a decent amount of clover has sprung up and that is fine by me for the free nitrogen they provide.  This year I plan on simply mowing high and not adding anything to the lawn.  I wanted the cheap and lazy lawn, and now that is is looking good it frees me up for other projects.

Thanks Al for the information.  I'll try the coffee grounds this year.  What is the purpose?  What do the coffee grounds do for the soil? 

karenA wrote:
What is the purpose?  What do the coffee grounds do for the soil? 

They add nitrogen and organic matter.  I have no idea if they help prevent dandelions, though. 

Good luck.

Personally I adore Creeping Charlie, it smells so lovely when you mow it or step on it. Is there a reason for me not to like it? Is it edible by creatures? If I could replace every blade of grass in the yard with that stuff I'd be happy  .

Hello, I have been reading the organic lawn care article and wanted to get some opinions. 

First the details.  I am in a new house that was un-lived in for a while.  The front yard is about 50/50 weeds and grass.  The weeds are mostly dandelion and clover.  We have LOTS of big trees so in the summer the lawn is mostly shaded and there is always lots of stuff dropping down.  There are some bare patches, but mostly the grass just looks like it is struggling while the weeds are thriving.  I have young kids so I am not too picky about my lawn.  I just want it to be something.  I can live with crab grass, clover, etc.  I am not crazy about the dandelions or the bare spots.

I went to Home Depot and got a lot of super helpful advice but I am not sure about all of it.  Here are the details.
-First spray to kill off the weeds, crab grass, clover, etc.
-Then spread lime to get the pH up (I have not checked the pH, but based on the description he was pretty certain it was to high).
-Wait 3 weeks for all the weeds to die.
-Spread grass seed.  I am mostly spreading "contractor blend" because it is cheap and supposedly hardy, and like I said, I am not picky.  I did get some seed specifically for very shaded areas to use where necessary.
-Fertilize (some Scott's fertilizer)
-Put peat moss over bare areas that were seeded.
-Water daily for 3 weeks.

First question, if I have dandalions, the article says my pH is to high and I should be spreading sulfur, not lime.

Second question, based on the article I am wondering if I could do things a little differently, like what follows.  Thoughts?
-Test the pH. Spread whatever is appropriate , but do not spray.
-Re-seed, spread fertilizer.
-Is there something better to use than peat moss, the article seems to warn against it.
-Should I water the new seed daily?  It seem like that will just make it weak, but I imagine it needs more water that the established grass. 

Thank you so much.
Brian

Brian Gallimore wrote:
I live in north central Texas.  Most everyone here has either Burmuada or St Augustine grass in their yards.  The local radio talk show guys point out that tests show at least the Burmuada grasses do best when mowed shorter. (I think 1-1/2" is optimal most of the year)

Paul's article makes no mention of regional differences.  Does it need a disclaimer or an amendment to warn readers that some of his suggestions would be different if you live in a different climate or have different grass?  Most of the people I recommend this information to would not consider this obvious.

I started organic lawn care a year ago after visiting this site. I had new bermuda lawn in Atlanta. I first put down 2 lb of N (starter chemical fert) per 1000 sf to let the bermuda grow to 3+ inches within 3 weeks, and mowed at 3 1/4 inches for the rest of the growing season. My lawn had been dense like a thick carpet for the whole year. I almost have never watered it and applied very little organic fertilizer afterward. This year I used only organic fertilizer (milorganite and soybean meal). I have put down about 4 lb of organic N per 1000 sf within 2 months, and my bermuda is now very dense at 3 1/4 inches like last year, only greener (due to the soybean meal, I like the color better than with milorganite). It looks like it's going to stay that way with no watering and little additional fertilization for the rest of the year just as they did last year. My neighbors keep on commenting how good it looks.

Has anyone had good success at reducing quack grass?

ezf wrote:
I started organic lawn care a year ago after visiting this site. I had new bermuda lawn in Atlanta. I first put down 2 lb of N (starter chemical fert) per 1000 sf to let the bermuda grow to 3+ inches within 3 weeks, and mowed at 3 1/4 inches for the rest of the growing season. My lawn had been dense like a thick carpet for the whole year. I almost have never watered it and applied very little organic fertilizer afterward. This year I used only organic fertilizer (milorganite and soybean meal). I have put down about 4 lb of organic N per 1000 sf within 2 months, and my bermuda is now very dense at 3 1/4 inches like last year, only greener (due to the soybean meal, I like the color better than with milorganite). It looks like it's going to stay that way with no watering and little additional fertilization for the rest of the year just as they did last year. My neighbors keep on commenting how good it looks.

Thanks for that info!  I posted a link to Paul's article on our organic radio guy's forum, and a moderator has responded with some criticisms of the article.  I don't know enough about the subject to argue either way.  The thread is at http://www.dirtdoctor.com/newforum/root/just-starting-organic-lawn-yard-care-any-suggestions-t12608.html

Brian Gallimore wrote:
Thanks for that info!   I posted a link to Paul's article on our organic radio guy's forum, and a moderator has responded with some criticisms of the article.  I don't know enough about the subject to argue either way.   The thread is at http://www.dirtdoctor.com/newforum/root/just-starting-organic-lawn-yard-care-any-suggestions-t12608.html

Since I don't  use any pre-emergent, weeds are harder to get rid of when bermuda is at 1 3/4 inches.  After the bermuda becomes dense and tall at 3 1/4 inches, weeds are no longer vigorous. I simply use a Hound Dog weed hound to pull the weeds out, and they don't show up again  for the whole season. A lesson I learned this year is not to fertilize too early in the Spring. Otherwise it benefits the weeds more than bermuda. Another benefit for mowing at 3 1/4 inches is that I can mow only once a week and the yard still looks quite uniform with few seed heads.

I think your dirt doctor guy is a dope. 

I have, on several occassions, put down an inch of compost and observed amazing results.  So his comment that it will smother the lawn is, therefore, utterly wrong. 

Next up:  a starvation diet is going to come from feeding too little to a lawn .  But he has no idea how much the lawn already has, or how deep the soil is, or that this is getting spread by hand.

Using fertilizer at 10x will probably kill the lawn and pollute the groundwater.  And this guy claims to know "organic".

I suspect that this guy knows some things, but he needs to learn how to qualify his statements.

Paul's response got my attention. What types of apple varieties can one leave on the tree and allow you to pick at will without them falling to the ground? That sounds like a very good type of tree/s to have.

First of all i very much liked what you wrote Paul, but i want to expand on "Fernando" a bit if you don't mind.

The Night crawler (lumbricus terresties) also known as dew worms is originally from the banks of the Nile river
in Egypt and were brought here in potted plants aboard ships although worm eggs have
been known to float from island to island or even longer distances.

Earthworms are more highly intelligent than most people realize.
Charles Darwin was studying them extensively and discovered that they
could differentiate between the end and corners of leaves preferring to grab
them by the tip to drag them into their burrows.

They like to LINE their burrows with leaves and prefer smaller leaves (shaped like an arrowhead) from trees like birch for this purpose because
of their size and are intelligent enough to find the tip so that upon pulling it in their burrow the leaf is able to curl up and go right in.

I'll never forget the first garden i had in California. The Backyard was covered in Gray coarse gravel for low maintenance but
was an eyesore and not user friendly. I Shoveled it all up behind a retaining wall i built to straighten up a leaning "in" wooden fence to
solve two problems at once and it worked perfectly. The reason i mention this garden is.. One day i was out there working and
saw something move early one morning and not knowing what it was i went to have a closer look. It was a piece of spilled
dry dog food and a night crawler had found it and was dragging it back to it's burrow as food. I was amazed and laid down for awhile to
watch this up close and see how well he could handle the job. It was incredible that the worm Knew this was a perfect food
made from ground up grains and definitely wanted to eat it.

I presently buy the almost same mixture only in powder form for a little more than 20 bucks for a 50Lb bag for my worm bins from the feed store.
It is called "Purina Worm chow" and the ingredients are all found in dog food. I also later discovered that Box turtles love it as well in Georgia after turning their
noses up to offerings of Lettuce. It was quite by accident again where some dog food had spilled and i noticed the turtle happily chowing down after it rained.

Now back to lawns.... IMHO! the more night crawlers you have in your lawn the better because they convert dead grass as Paul mentioned and other organic matter
to Humus and the reason Humus is So good and important is because it holds ten times it's weight in water which keeps a lawn cool and hydrated when it gets hot.

To Encourage worms you can borrow some from a different area that has an over abundance of them having the perfect conditions there and seed your lawn with them.
This has to be done at night using a red head lamp that doesn't make them shoot/scoot down their burrows when your pounding around on their roof ,you grab them semi firmly
with thumb and forefinger pulling with tension waiting for them to let go of the fight and relax then they'll slide right out without breaking in two.
You do this on a (light) rainy night that's kind of Misty especially in Spring when the grass is still short otherwise its difficult to even see them. they hide as well as bigfoot.

Then once you have a working colony it's simply a matter of raking leaves into windrows and running them over with a lawn mower turning them into confetti or worm food.
most leaves are fine but definitely avoid OAK leaves because the worms don't eat them and they contain tannic acid which prevents things from growing around oak tree's.

Hi, I recently found your original article and just loved it! What a great job you did in presenting it in a way that anyone can understand. All the other info that I found was so scattered, incomplete and confusing. Anyhow, I am very glad I found it! Now,of course, I have questions.
We have a lawn in front of the house about 2250 sq ft and in the back half of that. The front lawn also has a big oak tree in it, so we have shade, full sun and then a little bit of both. I dug as you advised to find out how deep my lawn is and it's about 4 -6 inches. I found a few worms. I haven't tested the soil yet. We moved to our house 3 years ago and haven't done a thing to the lawn besides watering it a bit with a sprinkler and put some Scotts fertilizer last year. Well, the lawn now has moss, wild strawberry, and another weed (round shiny leaves with yellow flowers - don't know what that is). There is also some clover popping up and dandilions, which I don't mind. It's those groundcovers that I can't stand.
So, this spring, I got some topsoil and spread it around the bare spots all around the lawn. Before that (yes, doing things backwards a bit) I put down some seed ( scotts mix). And just last weekend put down 3/4 bag of the Ringer's "Lawn restore".
I plan to mow high from now on and hopefully often. Our underground sprinkler system works right now 30 mins 3 times a week..but I want to switch to your method of watering soon. Could you please tell me when I should start watering less? The new grass is popping out, the weeds (dandilions and some others) are seeding (aahhh!!!) and the old grass is still too short....
Also, main concern, is how do I get rid of the wild strawberry, and that other ground cover? Our neighbors house is empty and their lawn is overtaken by these things. My back lawn is being overtaken by them as well..... Is it possible to get rid of them or do I have to over do the whole thing?
Thank you for all your advise.
OM

Dandelions indicate a soil PH that is to alkaline
water your lawn always right after cutting it
and make sure your lawn mower blade is razor sharp
so that your getting clean cuts on each blade of grass
and not whacking it off leaving a jagged edge which
makes for a browner looking color and the cut edge heals faster.

Water you lawn always just before a rain too so that the rain
gets further down promoting deeper root growth instead of a very shallow root system
then it'll stay greener and make for a stronger plant during a drought instead of just dying.

Always pop your tops on yellow dandelion flowers and toss them into a tie bag
so they cannot open after being removed. With a shovel you go out after a good rain
and slide it straight in next to the larger dandelions and give it a good pry to loosen up
that deep tap root so you can yank it out otherwise they just grow back

you'll have to mow your neighbors lawn too real short or else your fighting a loosing battle
but you can use wheat gluten flour that somehow prevents or kills out dandelion
google that... for the specifics.

Thanks for your advise, Raven. Do you know how to get rid of the strawberry plants on the lawn? They are overtaking it.

o shevts wrote:Thanks for your advise, Raven. Do you know how to get rid of the strawberry plants on the lawn? They are overtaking it.

I presume you are speaking of wild strawberry? WELL ......... think about sod companies and how their business hinges upon Literally rolling out
new lawn in a hurry all nice and pretty. How do they do that so easily. Having worked at green houses and golf courses i can tell you how.
They grow a side plot of grass that is then undercut by a sod machine and then strips of grass are rolled up and stacked on a truck.

You can do the same thing but i recommend using regular plastic flats (not as heavy) filled with soil and then pre-germinated grass seed by soaking it over night and spreading it
out flat on a window screen for easy rinsing until the seeds begin to sprout then cover the flats with the pre sprouted seed and cover with a wet section of newspaper to keep it in the dark.

After it roots uncover it and water it like a section of newly planted grass until it gets real thick. Then you take a piece of plywood and cut it the same dimension as
the plastic flats you collected free from peoples trash and place it on top of a spot you want new grass and using a straightedge sod cutter cut the flat outline
into the section of strawberry for easier removal. Now with a section of lawn removed and cleaned out with a short (sharp) hand hoe.. place the piece of
plywood on the ground in front of the rectangular hole and flip the flat on top of it so it's now upside down and remove the plastic flat.
Now flip the plywood over putting your new sod into the perfectly sized hole.

here is a video on how to grow wheat grass in a flat for health food....use the same method for growing grass seed....
webpage

Love the article on Lawn care. I feel compelled to offer some feedback on the question of acidic dog urine, especially in females. We are dog breeders in Canada, and I love a beautiful lawn even where our dogs are allowed to go. Highly acidic dog urine is a sign of dehydration in your dog. With all the acid your pooch has to get out of their body, if there isn't enough water going through to dilute the acids, then their concentrations are too high.

Most likely, in the warmer months, your dog isn't drinking enough - even with access to cool, fresh water all day long. (right when there is the least amount of rain, and most people's grass is the most susceptible to damage) This can be remedied by adding a splash of fruit juice or broth into your dog's water bowl to encourage them to drink more. (note: more care needs to be taken in keeping their water bowl clean when you do this.) We have also encouraged them to drink by dropping bits of apple or other non-dissolving treats into the water bowl. In the effort to fetch out the treats, they naturally consume more water.

Think of the burning holes in the grass as the symptom, not the problem. Address the dog dehydration, and you don't have burned holes in your lawn.

Melanie Salamon
www.canadianenglishdoodles.com
Quality Holistic Breeders

Lawns. My thoughts. Sheep and or a livestock that eats grass. If you can not do that.

I am of the mind to plant seed that will match your local climate. We have never seeded the lawns of the farm. It stays green a long time. The grass is natural grass/weeds we let grow. Yea we have dandelions and horsetails. They tell you its time to mow. I think lawn care is a waste of time once it is filled in. We have always let the grass clippings lay on the lawn. It it is too thick, mow it again in an other direction. Mom and Dad had many ac of lawn. The only place it was ever watered was by the front door so it would not track up into a mud sidewalk. Then it was not very often. Watering costs money.

My lawn is grass, many weeds, violets in the damp spots, lots of pretty low flowering stuff of something? My point. No fertilizer little watering and it looks great. Probably 150 years of dog poop and men folk urinating at all points here and there.

Dad just pointed out that in the big lawn, the one we played football in as kids, he tilled it and put in clover and alfalfa/hay. He tells me he let it grow, got in a cutting or two and then mowed it. It is still rocking 40 years latter. Not a drop of water or fertilizer. Mom warns of using uncomposted horse or other poop. For many reasons.

just an FYI, Fiskars now makes a really nice push reel mower with 4+ inches of clearance.
http://www.amazon.com/Fiskars-6201-18-Inch-Staysharp-Mower/dp/B0045VL1OO

I really benefited from reading your article on lawn care. My partner lives in a small house with a large yard, and one of the conditions of the rental agreement is that the lawn be maintained. When she moved in, the lawn was dried out and not very healthy; full of weeds, spotty, and concrete-ish in summer. We got rid of the bagging mower, and now mulch the clippings straight back into the yard. After reading this article last summer, I began slowly raising the deck on the mower, so that it wouldn't appear patchy, as it grows at different speeds in different areas. I am now one stop from the top. Granted, we are in the PNW and this is not a very dry summer, but in previous years, the lawn would dry out quite quickly as soon as the sun came out for a few days. Now it is significantly thicker (we can't resist walking around in it barefoot) it requires no water whatsoever, is out-competing the weeds, plus neighbors stop by and ask what we are doing to have such a lush, healthy lawn. Really, the answer is that we raised the deck on the mower and don't bag the grass clippings.

Meanwhile, moles have moved into the neighborhood, which at first I was worried about, and did some research as to how to get rid of them... Turns out, there's not much you can effectively do, so we re-adjusted our thinking and now thank them for the excellent potting soil which we collect immediately, and add a bit of vermiculite and compost to... Makes great soil for our garden starts...

Mallow?

I seem to have succeeded in controlling almost all other problems through Paul's cheap and lazy lawn care advice; except Mallow. Even my goats (six fainters) won't eat it.

What to do?

Not that the world is ending or anything, but it seems as though it gets taller as the summer turns to fall, and when I cut it with the mower, it 'trains' it to grow horizontally. Removal by hand is similar to dandelions, but the roots seem much more tenacious.

Tree of Heaven?
Nothing but hand removal on these incorrectly named starts.

Elms?
the more they are mowed, the more they spread.

Here in Boise, Zamzows organic lawn treatments are a good substitute for Ringers, in my opinion.

A dilemma: To mow and mulch for the grass or harvest cuttings for the goats? I do early cuts as goat feed. Late cuts, with yummy leaves as goat feed. In-between, as mulch. Seems to do well. Any thoughts?

Ty do you have pictures of the lawn you are working on?

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63817034/attachments%20%2813%29.zip

At this dropbox, I have posted a zip file with photos of the Mallow, Tree of Heaven, Elms, Crabgrass and a few other goodies.

I have about 12" of Idaho topsoil before I get to river gravel and sand deposits (I am in a historic river bed) and has been pasture, orchard and garden for over 100 years. Most of the Mallow is in the pasture with goats and chickens.

I very much like the idea of organic lawn but I know sheep/ goats are not ideal for every lawn ( we got ginny pigs and rabbits to keep the lawn neat )

I recently met a manufacturer of garlic spray for lawns . the garlic idea was not new to me with plants but new for me with the lawn use.
garlic spray goes into the plant system and make the plant immune system stronger so less diseases and pest .

The man was telling me that he supply for few years to golf courses and they find it as great . Now I just want to ask does anyone got experience with that ?

Adam, thanks for that link to the reel mower that can cut at 4". That's awesome! We bought a reel mower over 10 years ago, and as long as I kept up with it I loved using it, but if we got a couple of rains and it went too long without mowing it became impossible to use. This mower looks terrific.

[originally posted in wrong spot]
Hi - I've followed your program for three years with great luck. Mow high, ogranic fertalizer lightly, no chemicals. I do not water the grass.
Lawn looks very good, a little stressed end of this summer due to lack of rain in New England, has bounced back with wet fall weather.

I had grubs in two spots (first time), each spot about 10' x 5' oval.

I have removed the dead grass, re-seeded and grass is growing.

Question: Will the grubs be back next year?
I'm also wondering why i have grubs now, and if it is the start of a large probem.

We did get a dog in the spring, and i'm wondering if the dog is keepign the birds away, who might natually be eating the grubs.

We have approx 3/4 acre lawn, all organic, doing very well.

Thank you for your insights/thoughts!

Cheers

I Love this article. Great info, and your a great writer. You mentioned a "crazy idea" that you haven't gotten feedback on yet. Below is a link to a similar idea I came across today that I thought you would appreciate... a worm tower. I'm loving the lazy in this one.

http://www.permaculture.co.uk/readers-solutions/how-make-diy-worm-tower

My mother the organic gardener told me two ways to see if mowed grass needs water: 1- The grass looks blue-green instead of green-green. 2- The grass stays mashed under a footprint. Grass that doesn't need water yet will pop right back when it is walked on.